Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[rusty_shackleford]

Not strictly PKM-related, but this seems like a good place to ask...

There was an AD&D source book which contained a detailed section on wizard specialist archetypes. It described things like common characteristics, backgrounds, and alignments, of diviners/abjurers/conjurers/evokers/etc. It was either a Forgotten Realms source book, or a more general one. I thought for sure it was "Magic of Faerûn", but I can't find it there. Do anyone know which source book I'm thinking of? I remember using it when playing on persistent NWN servers around 12+ years ago.

Tagging Zed Duke of Banville rusty_shackleford because they are the only people I can think of that might know that.

since he mentioned nwn it's probably the 3.5e Complete Mage book
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_Mage

 

[Erikkolai]

I actually didn't find everything I remembered in Complete Mage (such as the alignments I mentioned), and kept looking for the rest. It's in Complete Arcane, page 166+. The descriptions there are even more detailed.

Abjuration confirmed as the anti-Sawyerist school:

They generally regard adherents of other schools of magic as reckless and wasteful, and they continuously evolve strategies for defeating other wizards in magic duels (whether such confrontations ever become necessary or not).

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Not strictly PKM-related, but this seems like a good place to ask...

There was an AD&D source book which contained a detailed section on wizard specialist archetypes. It described things like common characteristics, backgrounds, and alignments, of diviners/abjurers/conjurers/evokers/etc. It was either a Forgotten Realms source book, or a more general one. I thought for sure it was "Magic of Faerûn", but I can't find it there. Do anyone know which source book I'm thinking of? I remember using it when playing on persistent NWN servers around 12+ years ago.

Tagging Zed Duke of Banville rusty_shackleford because they are the only people I can think of that might know that.

Suggesting, even if inadvertently, that I would be familiar with a "3rd edition AD&D" book, and one set in the Forgotten Realms at that!

 

[NJClaw]

Not strictly PKM-related, but this seems like a good place to ask...

There was an AD&D source book which contained a detailed section on wizard specialist archetypes. It described things like common characteristics, backgrounds, and alignments, of diviners/abjurers/conjurers/evokers/etc. It was either a Forgotten Realms source book, or a more general one. I thought for sure it was "Magic of Faerûn", but I can't find it there. Do anyone know which source book I'm thinking of? I remember using it when playing on persistent NWN servers around 12+ years ago.

Tagging Zed Duke of Banville rusty_shackleford because they are the only people I can think of that might know that.

Suggesting, even if inadvertently, that I would be familiar with a "3rd edition AD&D" book, and one set in the Forgotten Realms at that!

I thought that he was strictly talking about AD&D. I would never openly insult you like that!

 

[Haplo]

it's far more efficient to simply CC stuff and let your physical damage dealers rip them to pieces though IMO

and grease is devastating from level 1

Some enemies like Gargoyles are outright immune to Grease. As to "efficient" that depends. My fire sorcerer with draconic line and Cotw mod can pump out 5d4 Burning Hands from the get go. That is 12-13 damage on average which one shots basically everything the first 2 levels that does not make its saving throw. Level 4 I can switch to Burning Arc for Spell specialization which leaves me with 5d4 Burning Hands and 7d6 BAs.
Grease even on just Challenging and Greater Spell Focus is not as reliable as people want to make it out to be, especially against enemies with really good dex saves. Also with Grease much of your physical damage then must come from ranged physical damage dealers and how many are there really? Most of your standard companions are either casters or melee. Melee and Grease does not mix well unless you base your party entirely on reach weapons and. Grease is more of a safe option but it is not the fastest way to bring down enemies since prone gives you a +4 AC on prone enemies making them much harder to hit early on.

Evocation is good, I don't debate this. Note I didn't write it sucks, as opposed to most other schools
Only... do you really need Spell Specialization to land those spells (as long as you target the right save - mostly meaning Relex trough a large part of the game)? You sure don't need Spec to fire Evocation rays.
I acknowledge you may use it to ramp Evo progression. It might even be a best deal when soloing. But IMO its not best for regular party play. Early spell slots are precious and damage spells are a bit of a waste in most cases (again, early game).

Mass Icy Prison is end game. Scirocco is party unfriendly and also exploitative, same as Stinking Cloud.

Regarding Grease, few enemies are immune to Prone effects. Even those that are used to provoke AoOs regardless - not sure if this is still the case.
Enemies have MINUS 4 AC vs melee when Prone (+4 vs ranged). Melee and Grease DO mix - you just have to be careful.

Regarding Glitterdust and immune to Blind. Again, really? That doesn't happen much. Also its fantastic that it targets Will...

The Pitts are absolutely fantastic. They can extend the fight and you also have to be careful around them? Well, don't use them every fight. Don't use them when you don't need to. But they can absolutely save your skin vs many nasties.

Chains of Light is top single target CC.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I have found that pits are incompatible with summons. Which either splits the specialization of a Conjurer or gives him/her 2 very different approaches to every fight.

 

[Yosharian]

Which pit spells are you referring to? Those are new, right? My new playthrough got nixed by the update so I didn't get far enough to see them

 

[Sykar]

it's far more efficient to simply CC stuff and let your physical damage dealers rip them to pieces though IMO

and grease is devastating from level 1

Some enemies like Gargoyles are outright immune to Grease. As to "efficient" that depends. My fire sorcerer with draconic line and Cotw mod can pump out 5d4 Burning Hands from the get go. That is 12-13 damage on average which one shots basically everything the first 2 levels that does not make its saving throw. Level 4 I can switch to Burning Arc for Spell specialization which leaves me with 5d4 Burning Hands and 7d6 BAs.
Grease even on just Challenging and Greater Spell Focus is not as reliable as people want to make it out to be, especially against enemies with really good dex saves. Also with Grease much of your physical damage then must come from ranged physical damage dealers and how many are there really? Most of your standard companions are either casters or melee. Melee and Grease does not mix well unless you base your party entirely on reach weapons and. Grease is more of a safe option but it is not the fastest way to bring down enemies since prone gives you a +4 AC on prone enemies making them much harder to hit early on.

Evocation is good, I don't debate this. Note I didn't write it sucks, as opposed to most other schools
Only... do you really need Spell Specialization to land those spells (as long as you target the right save - mostly meaning Relex trough a large part of the game)? You sure don't need Spec to fire Evocation rays.
I acknowledge you may use it to ramp Evo progression. It might even be a best deal when soloing. But IMO its not best for regular party play. Early spell slots are precious and damage spells are a bit of a waste in most cases (again, early game).

Mass Icy Prison is end game. Scirocco is party unfriendly and also exploitative, same as Stinking Cloud.

Regarding Grease, few enemies are immune to Prone effects. Even those that are used to provoke AoOs regardless - not sure if this is still the case.
Enemies have MINUS 4 AC vs melee when Prone (+4 vs ranged). Melee and Grease DO mix - you just have to be careful.

Regarding Glitterdust and immune to Blind. Again, really? That doesn't happen much. Also its fantastic that it targets Will...

The Pitts are absolutely fantastic. They can extend the fight annd you also have to be careful around them? Well, don't use them every fight. Don't use them when you don't need to. But they can absolutely save your skin vs many nasties.

Chains of Light is top single target CC.

It ultimately depends on the rest of your party. There is only so much CC you need you cannot CC an opponent to death. Evocation spells will on average help you kill shit faster no ifs or buts especially if you go AT. Evocation specialist can still opt to get spell focus in conjuration wizards do have enough feats for that. It is sorcerers which have it a little tighter in terms of feats though even they can opt to get a secondary spell school. Conjuration on its own can be used by anyone regardless of your main focus even an Enchanter specialist can do it. Grease is decent against weak dex saves even without spell focus especially if you are in the habit of debuffing the enemy.
Grease has a larger diameter than reach weapons and in tight areas you will be hard pressed to place it without covering the entire tunnel/hallway/etc.

 

[Haplo]

I have found that pits are incompatible with summons. Which either splits the specialization of a Conjurer or gives him/her 2 very different approaches to every fight.

That may very well be. On all my play-troughs my Octavia got Greater Focus Conjuration BUT never once summoned anything. Cojuration would still be a fantastic school even if you axed the minion summoning spells entirely.

And that is also a fine example: Octavia is an AT, but as a CC/ray specialist, she doesn't need Focus in Evocation (Okay, Spell Specialization on Ray of Fire, later Hellfire could be good for faster ray progression - but hardly vital).
Later on, when Surprise Spells kick in, she STILL doesn't need Evo Focus - Reflex targeting spells are becoming less useful (except against some swarms, I guess), Fortitude targeting Stormbolts land every time on Fey and ghosts even without Focus and she's also using no-save Evocations quite a bit, like sneak-attack boosted Volcanic Eruption.

 

[Haplo]

Which pit spells are you referring to? Those are new, right? My new playthrough got nixed by the update so I didn't get far enough to see them

Create Pit, Acid Pit, Hungry Pit and so on. They are very similar, just deal progressively more damage to trapped enemies (higher DCs without Heighten too).
Extremely useful to easily halve the enemy mob. At least if the enemies don't have stellar Reflex saves. Deal solid (if slow) damage over time too!
Don't use them too much late game, but early game they are fantastic. Great when you go pay an early visit to a certain lich also (to dispose of his guardians and be free to focus on him).

 

[Yosharian]

Interesting

 

[Xamenos]

Which pit spells are you referring to? Those are new, right? My new playthrough got nixed by the update so I didn't get far enough to see them

They got added in a free update at about the time Wildcards got releasted, iirc. They're all good, as Haplo said, but Acid Pit is amazing against the trolls.

 

[LannTheStupid]

That may very well be. On all my play-troughs my Octavia got Greater Focus Conjuration BUT never once summoned anything. Cojuration would still be a fantastic school even if you axed the minion summoning spells entirely.

I've found it with Cephal Lorentus who is a predefined Conjurer. For high Fortitude / low Reflex foes his pits are amazing at splitting the groups; for low Fortitude / high Reflex Fey he just spams summons as ablative armour. Despite InEffect's disdain for him, I think he is a very useful companion, at least on Hard.

 

[Erikkolai]

Do you know if Baleful Polymorph and/or Disintegrate affects loot in any way? Would I risk missing out on magical items if I use those spells against powerful mobs?

 

[Xamenos]

Despite InEffect's disdain for him

I thought we'd already established InEffect is an autistic retard with too high an opinion of himself.

Do you know if Baleful Polymorph and/or Disintegrate affects loot in any way? Would I risk missing out on magical items if I use those spells against powerful mobs?

I know disintegrate doesn't affect loot, it's not 2e anymore. I THINK baleful polymorph also doesn't, but I have no first-hand experience with it in-game to say for sure.

 

[Haplo]

Baleful Polymorph used to make loot inaccessible. So... avoid. Unless it's been changed, of course.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Unless it's been changed, of course.

It will be fixed in the upcoming 2.1 release of August 18.

 

[Yosharian]

Baleful Polymorph used to make loot inaccessible. So... avoid. Unless it's been changed, of course.

they fixed it

 

[LannTheStupid]

Thanks Owlcat Games and Unity engine for onboxiously long loading times. I have just read - for the first time playing Kingmaker - that if any Crisis points are added to a Barony event then the chance of "Disaster" is completely eliminated. No matter how low the advisor's stat is just add 1 Crisis point - and there will be not disaster ever.
Does anybody have the whole list of the loading screen tips by chance?

 

[Nas92]

I'm about to play this game, I barely know anything about it however, I only know the very basics of the Pathfinder system.

A couple of questions: How important is writing and dialogue in this game? Is it worth even putting points into persuasion when creating my character? Also I only have the base game, are the DLCs worth getting?

 

[prodigydancer]

Is it worth even putting points into persuasion when creating my character? Also I only have the base game, are the DLCs worth getting?

All skills are useful, including Persuasion. (Successful skill checks almost always award more XP than combat, especially the juicy high DC (40+) checks. A good idea is to spread out skills carefully between your characters to have a specialist for every situation.) Usually it doesn't matter which character in your party has high Persuasion because the game automatically picks the one with the highest skill. But sometimes you'll be alone and not having Persuasion will cost you some XP.

The DLCs are nice but optional. You might want to try out the game first and see if you like it. You might also want to consider some mods, particularly the turn-based combat mod. RTwP in Kingmaker can be difficult to manage sometimes (because of how many things happen simultaneously in large fights).

 

[NJClaw]

How important is writing and dialogue in this game?

There's a lot of dialogue, but most of it consists in giant lore-dumps without real consequences on the game.

Is it worth even putting points into persuasion when creating my character?

Yeah, there are Persuasion checks scattered throughout the game. A success in those checks usually gives a good chunk of experience, and sometimes it brings short-term benefits.

Also I only have the base game, are the DLCs worth getting?

The game is massive and full of content even without DLCs. You should consider blindly buying them for your first playthrough only if you are 100% sure that you will love the game or if you find a very good deal. Varnhold's Lot adds a separate mini-campaign, Beneath the Stolen Lands adds a giant dungeon and a new game mode, The Wildcards adds a new race, a new class and a companion, Arcane Unleashed adds a couple of spells (it's free, so you might as well download this one).

 

[Erikkolai]

If only there were words to describe my intense contempt for portraits. Specifically the process of finding a portrait that suits my character.

Wizard portraits are especially tricky. They're either too old, too evil, too flamboyant, too emo, too gay/elven, or even female.

I've determined to find a generic 'incognito portrait' to use for all my future characters in games like BG, NWN, and PKM. That way I'll never have to touch a portrait pack or Pinterest ever again, and my mental image of my character won't be violated.

Looking for something like the default NWN portrait (male with obscured face), but in high resolution for PKM. It's surprisingly hard to find anything decent, maybe because I haven't found the proper search terms.

Let me know if you've got any advice or a portrait that might suit what I'm looking for.

 

[NJClaw]

Wasting hours to find the appropriate portrait for your character is an integral part of the game. You have to download at least three portraits collections and then go through them several times, until you find something that satisfies your needs.

There's no other option, no alternative.

GO!

 

[Bara]

I'm about to play this game, I barely know anything about it however, I only know the very basics of the Pathfinder system.

Maybe hold off till August 18? The game is perfectly playable as is but they're officially releasing turn based mode into the game itself as the thread title currently points out.

It's simple to use the mod but why keep redundant files when they're about to become obsolete.

But I mainly suggest waiting as that feature patch as some more nice bug fixes.