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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

Discussion in 'Owlcat Games' started by Elex, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    What is this? Accepting your version of melee Tristian sucks or is this basic Tristian that you send into melee for some funny reason when he has a free ability that buffs allies that you should be using on your best damage dealer if you don't want to use non cantrip spells.
     
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  2. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    If you played the game you’d know what it is. You don’t have control of him for this fight.

    Outed.

    What it is is flat busted MC at lvl 10. And yeah, it’s also a joke since Tristian was naked and not close to the level where he’ll be in melee yet (he’s riding the bench until he finishes his companion quest).

    So you suggest using him to give one toon +2/+2 for a round (at touch range to boot)? That’s some piss poor action economy if I’ve ever seen it.

    I’m sure you’re a reasonably competent DM for your local PnP group. Doesn’t mean you know jack shit about this game and when you go ignorantly swinging your dick around about it it just makes you look like a -2 SD Cael.
     
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  3. Efe Erudite

    Efe
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    its clear you dont control him at that fight even to a complete stranger from screenshot alone. what do you think you are "outing"?
    dont you end upw ith abysmal hit chance when you use spellstrike with tristian?
    either way, how goes the testing?
     
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  4. Gord Arcane

    Gord
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    So, I finally finished it.

    Show Spoiler
    I haven't (yet) played the "secret" ending, confronting the lantern king. Might still do that, but the last chapter somewhat turned into a slog for me with all the trash-mobs, so I'm a bit burned out currently.

    Playthrough took me super long for some reason, Steam says 240+ hours for it. :M
    No idea why, but it kinda explains almost playing on it for one year (albeit with one or two longer breaks).

    Overall it was good and very recommendable for any fan of RtwP/DnD-RPGs, although it does have its flaws.
    Here's my personal top highlights and issues:
    + Implementation of rules/classes/etc - great Buildporn for anyone interested in playing around with builds
    + Engine/technical implementation (after numerous patches) - should be a good base to build upon with future titles
    + lots to do (varying quality, but some good stuff)

    - over-reliance on inflated numbers - I can understand their reasoning, but I'm not a huge fan of it
    - trash mobs, making parts of the game turn into a slog
    - kingdom mechanics feel tacked on and are a bit obscure (got better in EE)

    Quality declined a bit around chapter 3 or 4, imo. It's interesting how they emphasized time-limited and mutually exclusive quests so much in chapter one, while they became more of an afterthought later (in case of timed stuff because it was usually quite easy to finish that stuff up at the beginning of a chapter and then spend the plentiful remaining time exploring or upgrading the kingdom).

    Anyway, I'd like to play it again with a different build eventually, but definitely don't want to spend that much time on it again. Or maybe I'll just get the BtSL DLC for that purpose.
     
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  5. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    I didn't look at the fight that closely, I only checked your combat log numbers and that is only thing I cared about. Not that you mention it, yea this is the after effects of the operation. Guards give it away more than anything.

    That bonus goes up with his level if I remember correctly (or maybe that is the other one that you got limited uses of). But in my one run where I used him extensively when I didn't want to waste his spells or use him as a useless melee or ranged attacker I would use that boost. +2 is lots more bonus damage to your main damage dealer than 3 damage with a scimitar that cannot hit most enemies anyways. For many fights you don't need him casting spells, his pre fight buffs are doing the job already and this small boost stacks with other buffs.

    What does my PnP experience have to do with this now? I never used it except to correlate it with some of the design decision in this game because there it is does matter a little. After all Owlcat did play a lot of PnP and specifically this module during the time they worked on this game, I am sure they used lot of that PnP experience when making design decisions.
     
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  6. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    If the game was 3 chapters, each the size and quality of Chapter 1 this would have been without any doubt best RPG ever.

    Maybe they learn this lesson for their next game and do something like that, they did admit they made this game too big and too ambitious.
     
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  7. Zumbabul Learned

    Zumbabul
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    These words are perfect. They should be placed at steam store page.
     
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  8. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    It’s the only fight in the game where you’re fighting solo and you do it every play through. He’s not a stranger, he’s been sniping at my comments for months.

    I’m not planning to use Spellstrike until he finishes his companion quest (around Pitax). Right now he’s a 7th level Cleric with Shield, Image, Retreat, Mage Armor, and Martial Proficiency so he can fight Enlarged with a STR belt, Glaive/Bane Weapon and Greater Spell Focus Evocation on his Archon’s Aura and occasional Fireball.

    I’m mostly on Harrim/no Cleric at this point in the game so no biggie, but he does fine. Build is focused on Pitax and after. With Frightful et. al. to hit shouldn’t be a problem, but we’ll see when I get there.

    MC Slayer is nuts.
     
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  9. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    Are you sure? ;)
    Did you just out yourself? :P
     
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  10. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    You can fight the Nymph quest if you're a big man like Archangel. I prefer to just sneak out.

    Let's just say it's the only time you're fighting alongside Jhod and Bartholomew against an Owlbear in a prison.
     
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  11. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Because all your comments are absolutely valid and I'd be the clown if this were PnP. It's not. If I played the PnP and loved it I'd be disappointed in how inflated everything is and how different that makes the experience than the PnP. I wouldn't take it out on some dude who'd doing well on the cRPG version and enjoying it.

    The bonus that goes up is Touch of Good and it has limited uses, but still a lot and it is awesome and the main thing I'm giving up for MT (I've still got 7 levels of Cleric so it's not a total waste, same with channeling). You need Tristian to be near the front lines for Archon's Aura to hit most of the bad guys so massaging Ekun's balls every turn is a poor strategy, even if he needed the help which he doesn't. Even as a pure Cleric Tristian's much better whacking away with a reach weapon and Outflank by midgame. He's doing three damage here because he's naked, unbuffed, and five levels away from seriously using that Scimitar in his hand.
     
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  12. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Probably because it's no longer needed.
     
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  13. Andhaira Arcane

    Andhaira
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    Question: How many of the text adventure minigames are there in the main campaign total? What about the other 2 campaigns that are offered as DLC?

    How do they compare to PoE I & IIs minigames? (I never got far in PoE and never played PoEII)
     
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  14. Sergiu64 Arcane Sad Loser

    Sergiu64
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    I'm Ridin' with Biden I'm Ridin' with Biden
    There are... some. Maybe 1 in 10 wilderness areas are a text adventure. There are some random ones in dungeons as well. I kinda think they're fairly well placed. Since you didn't get far in PoE and didn't play PoE II - I'm not sure what value there would be in comparing them. But I guess I like Kingmaker ones better as they're not as deterministic as ones in PoE I/II due to d20 dice rolls vs hard skill checks.
     
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  15. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    So, I finally picked this up along with the Wildcards and Varnhold's Lot DLCs from GOG's sale. How are the loading times now? Should I wait until I get an SSD or are they reasonable enough without one?
     
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  16. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    It is fun to do that quest by fighting. But you need to go there after you level up some (lvl 7 or more) and come prepared with potions and scrolls. And not all classes can do it. I was able to solo it with my wizard but not with some other characters.
     
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  17. Yosharian Magister

    Yosharian
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    Why would it no longer be needed? Kingdom management is a pain in the arse.
     
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  18. Trashos Arcane

    Trashos
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    Can't help much, but at least on an SSD they are fast. I am still near the beginning of the game, though, so I don't know what happens later.



    Since I criticized earlier the way the system sets off, let me just say that this is 100% accurate. True build porn.
     
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  19. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Yeah, I ultimately am kind of a wuss on that sort of thing. If I’m blowing out Hard I’ll kick it up to Unfair (or use Unfair for testing before posting builds) but I rarely seek out situations where I’m likely to have my ass handed to me.

    Likewise not really into trying to win Val’s solo fight. If Haplo hadn’t told me it was possible my Amiri would never have beaten Armag.
     
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  20. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    I really tried to win armag fight but wasn't able to. Once I even reloaded 10 times, buffed her like crazy (even with displacement potion) and still could not win. She probably needs a special build and I always go pure barbarian with her.
    With Val only time I bothered to win was when she was KK, she destroyed that fool with her touch attack weapon.
     
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  21. Trashos Arcane

    Trashos
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    All right, I had a great fight against the Technic League random encounter. Lv2 with a 4 member party, I had to reload a few times before I nailed it.

    I also had a very interesting fight with a bear-like treant in order to get Tristan. Had to reload once. Luckily, I am playing a Vivisectionist, and I decided to utilize my fire/acid flasks to check the treant's reflexes. It worked! So my second point here is that the game features interesting fights against lone enemies, which is something I haven't seen for a loooong time. I hope there is more of this.

    Fighting-wise, the game looks very good at this point. It is tough and interesting.
     
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  22. Daidre Arcane

    Daidre
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Val's fight is usually pretty easy for me, she is around lvl 8 at this point - extend Improved Invis, Haste, some buffs and whack him with 2-hander, something like +2 Fire Glaive. My tanky builds for her always has rogue 4, so auto-sneak for +3d6. He buffs for a first round and usually face down at the second.

    I am yet to build Amiri that can reliably beat Armag fight even with full buff, one lucky crit for 120+ damage and she is done, twice more on unfaire, and he crits often. So I just cheese this duel with healing potions spam from the inventory when I want to win for an extra RP option.
     
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  23. ArchAngel Arcane Sad Loser

    ArchAngel
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    I only used Val in one campaign as pure Fighter and she lost that fight. In other campaign she was KK and in all others she just stays and home and she is leveled as pure fighter because I don't want to bother with her. As pure fighter she cannot win that fight without crazy luck (although I never tried extended improved invisibility (probably because I didn't have that spell at the time, she often fights it as lvl 7 and Octavia still only has access to lvl 3 spells, also no access to extend rod for lvl 4 spells).

    You can use healing potions from inventory without it costing time even during combat?!?! I never noticed this is possible... that is terrible if allowed. That puts a shade on everyone ever finishing the game on Unfair, especially all the solo runners.
     
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  24. Daidre Arcane

    Daidre
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Yeah it is like... workaround for lazy. Does no work in normal combat, only in scripted duels.

    Witch on the swamp map sells Displacement potion and the same spell with extend rod could be used instead of improved invis. Long scene before the Val's fight eats a great deal from the spell duration so extend is mandatory.
     
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  25. Zumbabul Learned

    Zumbabul
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    In Val's fight, you can place grease, web, and stinking cloud before fight. Probably you can add sirroco, but I didn't had it. The palading will be lying on the ground, vomitting, and entangled in web. Val will just kill him without any fancy builds.
     
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