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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

Discussion in 'Owlcat Games' started by Elex, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Meredoth Arcane

    Meredoth
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    Games aren't art, they can CONTAIN art(music, animation, etc) but the "ludic" part of the game is not art.

    Modding like the name say is modifying something. Pick the Gothic 3 for example, without the community path, the game is unplayable. And on Gothic 2, you have returning, a overall mod and the alternative balancing, a mod for a mod. Mods are a great way to make something great even better or to fix problems with a specific game.
     
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  2. NJClaw OoOoOoOoOoh Patron

    NJClaw
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I'm Ridin' with Biden I'm Ridin' with Biden
    This would make a lot of sense in a universe where publishing a mod changes forever the original game. However, this doesn't happen in the universe where this website is hosted. Mods for Kingmaker exist, yet everyone can still buy, download, and play the original game.

    And "collective art creation" is what art is: artists take inspiration from other artists' works of art all the time. It's almost as if you can take something produced by someone else and use it to express yourself and your "vision":

    [​IMG]

    Just like with mods, you know?
     
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  3. Pink Eye Monk Patron

    Pink Eye
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    >Games aren't art, they can CONTAIN art(music, animation, etc)
    >but the "ludic" part of the game is not art.
    My dear poster. What you've posted is complete nonsense. I am utterly flabbergasted by your comments. I don't even know how to respond to such a post.
     
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  4. Max Damage Learned

    Max Damage
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    Last time I was at art exhibition, I mysteriously didn't find Pillars of Eternity or any other video game behind the glass. Could it be because, I don't know, video games are sold as mass consumption entertainment? Sometimes with extensive modding tools and level editors even, like Warcraft 3? Those damn gamers sure wield terrible power of bullying developers by devaluing their priceless art with optional alterations, I say what!
    It looks like you didn't really read or understand, and are confusing art with quality while failing to grasp while all this talk is about in first place. Please chill and read the previous posts to get the context.
     
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  5. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    Do you unironically believe that the only High Art being produced today is the most arcane and niche forms of furry porn? Because that's about the only thing that conforms to the old channels for art production.

    If a videogame stands the test of time and is remembered decades if not centuries after its making due to whatever aspects of its craft, then its worth a moniker of sorts. Call it an artifact or not, it doesn't matter. Most of videogaming isn't art, just as most of writing, photography, music, painting and carving is buried under the sands.
     
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  6. Max Damage Learned

    Max Damage
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    That's probably a take some of the furries share, I can't confirm myself. Pretty sure you're omitting a lot of other qualifiers in favor of personal sex fantasies as well :positive:Whether a game stands a test of time or not speaks of its qualities as video game, but doesn't move it outside of its designation of being one - Big Rigs, Bubsy 3D, Cheetahmen are all still video games, just pretty crappy ones because they fail at their purpose for various reasons.
     
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  7. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    My point is that we live in a world where everything can be sold to a lot of people, right? And so it will be. That includes high art. If anything that includes especially high art, as entire countries base their economy selling the opportunity to, say, have a glimpse of the mona lisa to a mass audience of millions. A fish doesn't get to live below water and complain that everything is wet. A fat man doesn't get to eat takeout every day and decry the corporate capitalism of Big Diet.

    What's important is what is true today as in the past: not everything is worth remembering. The mona lisa was. So a cult can be formed around it. The hypothetical cunta lisa, a piece furry art that Leonardo created to make ends meet was not. We show people the statues of roman gods. We also hide scores of roman dildos as no proper narrative can be formed around them beyond that romans were always very horny on main. You can't apply for a government grant on that. Not every poem got the opportunity to burn in Alexandria. As far as videogames should be concerned the jury is still out. What are the games that will be remembered by the people of 2050? What about 2250? Maybe it will be the GOTY 2012. Wouldn't that suck? But maybe it will be the cult classic we adore. And maybe it will be something else completely overlooked that speaks to the people of the 23rd century. Sadly, maybe, it will be nothing whatsoever.
     
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  8. Pink Eye Monk Patron

    Pink Eye
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    Art is in the eye of the beholder, indeed. I consider my favorite video games to be masterpieces that survived the tests of time - subjective, yes; but welcome to the medium in which we partake in! It always stroked me a merry whenever people will start telling me how this or that can't be art. Or how that's art instead. Then they'll start creating their silly definitions of what they think constitutes as beauty. There's a word for that, pretentious.
     
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  9. Max Damage Learned

    Max Damage
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    While I mostly agree with all of that, it has fuck all to do with modding vs "artistic intent". Lann is arbitrarily treating some games like they're originals of Mona Lisa and should be "respected" by not getting altered, while everyone esle is laughing at retards like him. Please, at least read the thread before reporting your closet furry problems :lol:
     
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  10. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    And this is still wrong. The fact that a game can be modded doesn't increase or diminish its status as an artifact. The fact that something can or is sold to a mass audience is immaterial to its status as a piece of art. It is literally one of the few wrong arguments you can make towards Lann's position. Just calling him anal would make for a better post.
    wow i found the long lost cunta lisa
     
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  11. Max Damage Learned

    Max Damage
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    Why are you getting hang on the "mass" part of entertainment? How does it strenghten his position when it doesn't make sense? All of his statements are incoherent butthurt about people enjoying games they bought the "wrong way".
     
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  12. Pink Eye Monk Patron

    Pink Eye
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    The conversation is no longer about Lann's ramblings. The discussion is now focused on you saying,"Video Games aren't art".
     
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  13. Max Damage Learned

    Max Damage
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    I said that they are not high art, yes. As such, nothing about modding video games is wrong, irrational, or devaluing the original intent.
     
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  14. Efe Erudite

    Efe
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  15. Max Damage Learned

    Max Damage
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    Pretentious is claiming that modding video games is wrong and getting butthurt that people make distinction between your mass produced toy and actual irreplaceable original crafts that were made with the opposite intent :positive:
     
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  16. Pink Eye Monk Patron

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    By that hand, I don't consider pen and paper to be art. They're just mass produced toys for market consumption. Woe is me!
     
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  17. Max Damage Learned

    Max Damage
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    I'm glad you finally understand.
     
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  18. Pink Eye Monk Patron

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    By the name of Saint Joseph! That wasn't my point.
     
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  19. Max Damage Learned

    Max Damage
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    Then maybe you should actually read up on high art, its history and examples, because by this point you're lashing out aimlessly at reality. FATAL and D&D are both P&P, one is bad, other is good (or at least better), neither is high art regardless of their success at being P&P. I'm tired of explaining the obvious, peace.
     
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  20. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    D&D is high art
     
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  21. Pink Eye Monk Patron

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    Lashing? What? Since when did you get that impression? In any case, I'm going to go enjoy some high art video games.
     
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  22. Xamenos Magister Patron

    Xamenos
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    What the actual fuck? Defacing a Van Gogh DESTROYS the original. Modding doesn't. The original is still there for anyone who prefers it. Modding is the equivalent of me printing a copy of a painting in an A4 and painting over it with crayons. Who the fuck cares I'm wasting paint and paper?

    What was that intent, and why does it not apply to any videogame ever made? Didn't the artists of your "High Art" want to make money? Michelangelo was fabulously paid for his work, does this make him not a n artist in your eyes too?
     
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  23. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Obviously
     
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  24. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    It’s destroying it for you, which is all that matters for you. Don’t mod until you’ve gained a full appreciation for the original and understand the artist’s vision for how the game is intended to be played.

    For your own sake.
     
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  25. LannTheStupid Товарищ Patron

    LannTheStupid
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    First, my personal thanks to all participants for focusing my mind. Now I think I understand the subject better.

    Second, I have this kind of scale.

    1. An ideal game is a console exclusive without ports. Demon's Souls, Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Bloodborne. The player has only one, certified and approved, way of having fun. You take it or you leave it. There is only one variant of the game. Emulators might dilute that, but I have not heard (yet) of Zelda content mods. I know that the resolution was upped on PC emulators, though.

    2. The worst game possible is Skyrim and the likes. There is even a whole game made using just Skyrim and mods - Enderal. Disgusting abomination.

    3. The rest is somwehere in-between. My personal border lies near the first Pillars and Kingmaker; Wrath promises to be too moddable, but I will have to live with that.

    If someone would argue about player's freedoms, TIMTOWDI and other liberal stuff - check the location in my signature. Remember: freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength.
     
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