Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Desiderius]

She’ll have more than enough casts to roast whatever you want by endgame, which is what you’re looking at.

For like... 5 fights. Not whole dungeons. Meanwhile a kineticist can solo Pitax trivially.

Granted by the late game it's not like being efficient with time matters much at all. Doesn't matter how much time you rest when the last half a year to a year of the game is passing time anyway.

I don't know what you are talking about. My gang did dungeons without resting, even the whole of Pitax, Vordakai, Armag and Tenebrous. I think the few times I rested was because of specific reasons (e.g., restoring stat damage/drain) rather than running out of combat spells. I even walked into Vordakai without any rations and couldn't rest at all, which was my bad, but still came out OK. Killed off all the daemons in that room, too.

That's a little overstated but by midgame and certainly endgame full casters end up with plenty of casts to do whatever they want in fights where they would need it. Especially Hellfire where you can use meta to fill up all your 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level slots if you want.

They can fight reasonably well with weapons as support on easier fights (taking advantage of all the items and group buffs) but that's less necessary than I originally thought if you let your casters develop, especially full casters.

 

[Desiderius]

I don't know what you are talking about. My gang did dungeons without resting, even the whole of Pitax, Vordakai, Armag and Tenebrous. I think the few times I rested was because of specific reasons (e.g., restoring stat damage/drain) rather than running out of combat spells. I even walked into Vordakai without any rations and couldn't rest at all, which was my bad, but still came out OK. Killed off all the daemons in that room, too.

He's comparing a wizard casting a 6th level spell every round like a kineticist would cast a kinetic blast every round. Obviously if you play smarter and use more efficient spells you can last longer, but then you can't really directly compare them to kineticist.

You said five casts. Nuker Wizard will have several times that by the endgame you brought up if they want it, but they won't need that many, which is the point.

 

[Desiderius]

I don't know what you are talking about. My gang did dungeons without resting, even the whole of Pitax, Vordakai, Armag and Tenebrous. I think the few times I rested was because of specific reasons (e.g., restoring stat damage/drain) rather than running out of combat spells. I even walked into Vordakai without any rations and couldn't rest at all, which was my bad, but still came out OK. Killed off all the daemons in that room, too.

He's comparing a wizard casting a 6th level spell every round like a kineticist would cast a kinetic blast every round. Obviously if you play smarter and use more efficient spells you can last longer, but then you can't really directly compare them to kineticist.

Chain Lightning and Blade Barrier was my go-to spell for that spell level. That was how I nailed the Spawn, that room and the Chanter. A kineticist would actually have lowered my available nova firepower in those circumstances.

Not a well-played Kineticist. As Average Manatee has pointed out (and I think you agreed) they're very good at persistent effects ala Blade Barrier.

 

[Nano]

This is pretty awkward.

 

[Average Manatee]

You said five casts. Nuker Wizard will have several times that by the endgame you brought up if they want it, but they won't need that many, which is the point.

I said 5 fights. Not 5 casts. Obviously I expect you'll cast more than one spell per battle.

Wizard can only cast all day with hellfire if by "all day" you mean ~5 fights (assuming 2 or 3 casts per fight)

 

[Desiderius]

You said five casts. Nuker Wizard will have several times that by the endgame you brought up if they want it, but they won't need that many, which is the point.

I said 5 fights. Not 5 casts. Obviously I expect you'll cast more than one spell per battle.

Wizard can only cast all day with hellfire if by "all day" you mean ~5 fights (assuming 2 or 3 casts per fight)

Ok, but you're talking about one-shotting bosses with Hellfire/pre-combat Gather. The whole point is that you wouldn't need 2 or 3 casts for that.

Yet again, the other question arises for the theorycrafters (other than why do you always design for endgame):

WTF is the rest of your party doing? Why are you designing for solo when playing a game with 6 characters?

 

[Nano]

Desiderius, didn't you say something about how being evil doesn't pay off? I'd have to disagree.

 

[Nano]

The artisan quests really are just awful. Why the fuck is the game asking me to go to the other side of the Narlmarches just to get a fucking flower for some faggot elf? In any other game I'd skip this bullshit, but I can't here because the devs tied the best items in the game to these cunts.

 

[Desiderius]

The artisan quests really are just awful. Why the fuck is the game asking me to go to the other side of the Narlmarches just to get a fucking flower for some faggot elf? In any other game I'd skip this bullshit, but I can't here because the devs tied the best items in the game to these cunts.

I’m pretty sure the design was just to tell some quest-givers to sod off. Would certainly explain the original Bokken quest. And if you do everything you wind up with way too much stuff.

As with most of the character arcs you do get the option to eventually set him straight if you want if you can survive the initial cringe. Like dealing with redditors in rl.

 

[Delterius]

The artisan quests really are just awful. Why the fuck is the game asking me to go to the other side of the Narlmarches just to get a fucking flower for some faggot elf? In any other game I'd skip this bullshit, but I can't here because the devs tied the best items in the game to these cunts.

post doesn't say 'its called kingmaker not matchmaker'. disappointing. 5/10

 

[Nano]

I’m pretty sure the design was just to tell some quest-givers to sod off. Would certainly explain the original Bokken quest. And if you do everything you wind up with way too much stuff.

As with most of the character arcs you do get the option to eventually set him straight if you want if you can survive the initial cringe. Like dealing with redditors in rl.

Hey, that's another notch in your "evil characters suck" thing. Only they can realistically work with folks like Bokken, the orc guy, and a bunch of the others.

post doesn't say 'its called kingmaker not matchmaker'. disappointing. 5/10

Should've known he wants to give it to a girl. For some reason I assumed he was gonna use it for his work, but I guess that's not quite dumb enough.

 

[The_Mask]

If you have no passion in your heart, what is in your head don't matter.

 

[Nano]

If I ever play this game again (which is doubtful), I won't bother with most of the artisan quests. It's just way too immersion breaking fetching and carrying shit when I'm the freaking baron, I don't care how powerful the items are.

 

[Desiderius]

If I ever play this game again (which is doubtful), I won't bother with most of the artisan quests. It's just way too immersion breaking fetching and carrying shit when I'm the freaking baron, I don't care how powerful the items are.

That's a NE take. You can kill the LG Inquisitor for CE Varrask and the NG Unicorn for NE Irlene, hunt down the Poachers for TN Sharel and rough up Nazrielle for NE Sartayne and you're, uh, good.

So what I was suggesting.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

So I wasn't at all paying attention to optimal completion of companion quests for the best endings. I'm now at the end of Jaefar's quest, and I apparently did something wrong at some point, as I don't see an option for getting her to turn on her god (and unless I'm mistaken, I think what I did wrong happened several chapters back, so it's not really something I can correct). I can do all the prompts attempting to argue with her, but I'm still left with just the choices of either killing her or allowing her to kill her daughter (either by staying undead, or by assuming her body).

Which is the best outcome to do? I honestly rarely use Jaefar, so I don't care that much about her. I'm also lawful good, which seems to align with just killing her, although that choice strikes me as kind of dickish. So I guess I'd rather let her live, but I'm more worried about other companions that I actually like getting pissed at me and leaving. If I tell Jaefer, "I don't give a fuck, do what you want," several companions still blame me when she kills her daughter, but I don't know if they will be angry enough to leave, or if it's just flavor text.

Is there an optimal choice to make in this situation that keeps Jaefer and all the other companions? For the record, I'm 100% done with Tristian's quest and, as far as I know, I have the optimal ending with him, if that matters.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

If I ever play this game again (which is doubtful), I won't bother with most of the artisan quests. It's just way too immersion breaking fetching and carrying shit when I'm the freaking baron, I don't care how powerful the items are.

I'm on unfair and this is my first time playing a Pathfinder game, so my builds probably aren't optimal. Despite that, I've been steamrolling everything since chapter 3. I'll occasionally hit an optional fight that seems too hard (especially in the depths), but it's almost always something that's fixed by just waiting until I level up one more time and coming back (or just leaving and coming back with all of my characters who can cast level 8 summons, undead, and skelies, which are pretty OP). Maybe the final chapter will be insanely difficult and I'll eat my words, but so far, I haven't needed any more powerful items than what you find through conventional quests.

The biggest benefit of the artisan quests from my vantage point is that they result in a bunch of very expensive, free, items that you will likely have zero use for, so if you sell them off you'll be swimming in money to complete the Kingdom management portions of the game. That said, if you are ignoring artisans completely, leveling up your advisors will be less important, so maybe that balances out in the end.

 

[Haplo]

The artisan quests also include the absolutely best weapons in several weapon categories (for example 2 top longswords, 2 top fauchards), best armors, as well as best miscellaniuos equipment (rings, rods and such).

 

[Desiderius]

So I wasn't at all paying attention to optimal completion of companion quests for the best endings. I'm now at the end of Jaefar's quest, and I apparently did something wrong at some point, as I don't see an option for getting her to turn on her god (and unless I'm mistaken, I think what I did wrong happened several chapters back, so it's not really something I can correct). I can do all the prompts attempting to argue with her, but I'm still left with just the choices of either killing her or allowing her to kill her daughter (either by staying undead, or by assuming her body).

Which is the best outcome to do? I honestly rarely use Jaefar, so I don't care that much about her. I'm also lawful good, which seems to align with just killing her, although that choice strikes me as kind of dickish. So I guess I'd rather let her live, but I'm more worried about other companions that I actually like getting pissed at me and leaving. If I tell Jaefer, "I don't give a fuck, do what you want," several companions still blame me when she kills her daughter, but I don't know if they will be angry enough to leave, or if it's just flavor text.

Is there an optimal choice to make in this situation that keeps Jaefer and all the other companions? For the record, I'm 100% done with Tristian's quest and, as far as I know, I have the optimal ending with him, if that matters.

Don’t let her kill her daughter. You’re LG not CN.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

So I wasn't at all paying attention to optimal completion of companion quests for the best endings. I'm now at the end of Jaefar's quest, and I apparently did something wrong at some point, as I don't see an option for getting her to turn on her god (and unless I'm mistaken, I think what I did wrong happened several chapters back, so it's not really something I can correct). I can do all the prompts attempting to argue with her, but I'm still left with just the choices of either killing her or allowing her to kill her daughter (either by staying undead, or by assuming her body).

Which is the best outcome to do? I honestly rarely use Jaefar, so I don't care that much about her. I'm also lawful good, which seems to align with just killing her, although that choice strikes me as kind of dickish. So I guess I'd rather let her live, but I'm more worried about other companions that I actually like getting pissed at me and leaving. If I tell Jaefer, "I don't give a fuck, do what you want," several companions still blame me when she kills her daughter, but I don't know if they will be angry enough to leave, or if it's just flavor text.

Is there an optimal choice to make in this situation that keeps Jaefer and all the other companions? For the record, I'm 100% done with Tristian's quest and, as far as I know, I have the optimal ending with him, if that matters.

She's a bored edgelord undead abomination that murdered her kin so she could get inebriated. Proper resolution is to side with her daughter and administer justice.

Spoiler

Unfortunately she still showed up at the HatEoT, but Tristian solved that aberrancy for good.

 

[Desiderius]

Unlike Cam,

she can be somewhat redeemed

but only by appeasing Pharasma with her death.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

So I wasn't at all paying attention to optimal completion of companion quests for the best endings. I'm now at the end of Jaefar's quest, and I apparently did something wrong at some point, as I don't see an option for getting her to turn on her god (and unless I'm mistaken, I think what I did wrong happened several chapters back, so it's not really something I can correct). I can do all the prompts attempting to argue with her, but I'm still left with just the choices of either killing her or allowing her to kill her daughter (either by staying undead, or by assuming her body).

Which is the best outcome to do? I honestly rarely use Jaefar, so I don't care that much about her. I'm also lawful good, which seems to align with just killing her, although that choice strikes me as kind of dickish. So I guess I'd rather let her live, but I'm more worried about other companions that I actually like getting pissed at me and leaving. If I tell Jaefer, "I don't give a fuck, do what you want," several companions still blame me when she kills her daughter, but I don't know if they will be angry enough to leave, or if it's just flavor text.

Is there an optimal choice to make in this situation that keeps Jaefer and all the other companions? For the record, I'm 100% done with Tristian's quest and, as far as I know, I have the optimal ending with him, if that matters.

Don’t let her kill her daughter. You’re LG not CN.

My autism rages against this suggestion, as I must be completionist in all things, but I really do hate her as a person. She's an interesting character, as far as characters go, but she's kind of a massive cunt, so whatever. Dead.

 

[Desiderius]

She’s undead, dude. You haven’t seen the last of her. Worry not.

Just be glad you never figured out how good straight Inquisitor is so it’s easier to let her go.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I'm very near the end and just want to finish, but holy fuck, House at the End of Time is the single worst dungeon in this game. Yes, it has a tons of high level enemies which means you have to buff constantly. But that's not why it's awful. It's awful because it's yet another fucking dungeon with alternate dimensions that you have to comb through over and over looking for what you need. I've spent an hour wandering around because I have no idea what I'm supposed to do. I have 2 keys, need the 3rd, and I just want this fucking game to be over.

 

[Stoned Ape]

I'm very near the end and just want to finish, but holy fuck, House at the End of Time is the single worst dungeon in this game. Yes, it has a tons of high level enemies which means you have to buff constantly. But that's not why it's awful. It's awful because it's yet another fucking dungeon with alternate dimensions that you have to comb through over and over looking for what you need. I've spent an hour wandering around because I have no idea what I'm supposed to do. I have 2 keys, need the 3rd, and I just want this fucking game to be over.

That's exactly the way I felt when I completed it. I've still only managed to finish Kingmaker once despite clearing Pitax numerous times. I just couldn't muster up the will to go through THATEOT after hating it so much the first time I cleared it.

 

[Average Manatee]

There is a very specific portal you have to enter to take you where you need to go. No shame in looking up a guide.