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Game News Pathfinder: Kingmaker Kickstarter Update #21: Magus Unlocked, Archetypes Stretch Goal

Infinitron

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Tags: Owlcat Games; Pathfinder: Kingmaker

The Pathfinder: Kingmaker Kickstarter campaign hit $600k of funding this morning, unlocking the Magus class stretch goal. For the new stretch goal, Owlcat are looking to overhaul the game's entire class system. If the campaign manages to raise $800k, they'll implement class archetypes, Pathfinder's equivalent to AD&D kits. As with Pillars of Eternity II and its subclasses, each class will get three of them. The Kickstarter update explains:

A satisfying RPG experience relies heavily on your ability to create just the character you want, to bring your character concept to life as accurately as possible. But some character concepts are not conventional and stray away from well-trodden paths. Yet classes were made with specific, more general concepts in mind, and while they allow many different builds – some less conventional approaches are left unsupported. The Pathfinder RPG has a feature that covers those wishes: Archetypes.

Archetypes are not new classes on their own, but merely modifications of an already existing class, although the extent of modification varies greatly from case to case. Archetypes remove some class features from their base class, change others, modify existing choices and numerical bonuses of the class. In some cases, they just replace one feature with a feature of another class, and in some cases, they replace significant parts of the class, with an array of completely new abilities.

Sometimes you want your character to specialize in a certain specific part of their class far more than representatives of this class usually do. For example, let's say you want to play a cleric that concentrates on summoning monsters, but find that this specialization is hard to achieve with just the conventional cleric. There is an archetype that fits this purpose perfectly. The Cleric's Herald Caller archetype concentrates on summoning allies to fight for him. While he loses his ability to wear medium armor, equip shields and only has one domain, he can convert his spells into summoning spells in the middle of combat, and the creatures he summons are far more formidable and numerous.

Sometimes you want to take a different approach to a conventional role, for example, to create a tanking fighter that relies on his swordsmanship alone – yet every time you look up your abilities your conviction wavers. You see that equipping a shield would make your character a better tank, but you never envisioned him hiding behind a shield in battle. On the other hand, not using one makes you feel that you aren’t using your character to his full potential. In this case, you may look for an archetype instead – and find one that fits your idea. For example, the Aldori Defender, a fighter archetype with his roots in the fencing school of Aldori Swordlords, prefers to master his parrying techniques instead of relying on shields.

And sometimes you want to go even further. For example, create a magus, who is skilled with a bow. There is simply no way to do that with the basic magus class – his abilities work with one-handed melee weapons, and the bow is neither. Only archetypes can help you with this, and there is one designed specifically with that purpose in mind. The magus' Eldritch Archer archetype allows him to use his abilities with any ranged weapon and, instead of charging his blade with close combat spells, this archetype allows the magus to charge his attacks with long range spells, shooting fiery rays from his crossbow or launching bolts of lightning together with a javelin.

And that’s not the extent of possible archetypes – there are far more of them in Pathfinder. There’s the Sword Saint, a magus archetype that abandons armor and some of his spellcasting to become a master of one chosen weapon. There’s the Vivisectionist – an alchemist that replaces his signature ability to throw bombs with deadly sneak attacks. Ecclesitheurge – a cleric, favoring the perfection of his divine magic abilities over his martial prowess. Armored Hulk – a heavily armored barbarian. Sacred Huntsmaster and Mad Dog – inquisitor and barbarian with animal companions. And the list goes on and on.

Some classes, like Sorcerer or Wizard, while lacking these vast amounts of archetypes, have alternative class features that can replace them - subschools and wild bloodlines. We want to add even more choices, and depth to our game, to both, improve the base gameplay and provide replayability. Archetypes are a good way to do both, for they will add more meaningful choices to character creation and development, will allow us to add personalities to some companions in the form of archetypes, and to increase the variety of enemy encounters - for enemies will have archetypes, too.
Very cool. But can they make the goal? The funding spike of the past week seems to have died down now, but maybe it'll pick up again.
 

Neanderthal

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Does this really matter? I mean if as ArchAngel says you'll be playing as a king then you'll have folk to do this kinda shit for you, you'll be making speeches, deciding goals and strategies for achieving em, inspecting your armies, deciding what level of taxation to apply, consulting with councillors and all that kinda shit. You wouldn't be so fucking stupid as to go out in the field without the men of the royal bodyguard and possibly a large entourage, even when touring your demense early in your rule to cement local support.

I suppose the stats will matter for your captain of the guard, spymaster, chief elfhunter, high priest etc.
 

Galdred

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Does this really matter? I mean if as ArchAngel says you'll be playing as a king then you'll have folk to do this kinda shit for you, you'll be making speeches, deciding goals and strategies for achieving em, inspecting your armies, deciding what level of taxation to apply, consulting with councillors and all that kinda shit. You wouldn't be so fucking stupid as to go out in the field without the men of the royal bodyguard and possibly a large entourage, even when touring your demense early in your rule to cement local support.

I suppose the stats will matter for your captain of the guard, spymaster, chief elfhunter, high priest etc.

You are not really playing as a king, more as an explorer that creates a backwater settlement, and ends up running things there. So basically, your armies would consist of peasant militia and your elite forces of forest guards (ok, it is a slight exageration, but not by much).
On top of that, in the D20 ruleset, aparty of high level characters can more or less destroy an army.
I have not ran the campaign, only read it (I plan to run it later this year), so you should take whatever I say with a grain of salt, but I think you end up mostly exploring new areas to expand your settlements, and solving problems by yourself.
It is not that shocking, as rulers were the ones supposed to do the fighting by themselves at this time, and they carried a lot of flashy symbols to make sure you could not miss them.

From what they said in the KS, the Kingdom scale crisis that won't require your direct involvement will be represented as events with a few choice you'll have to make, while the major problems will require your going there by yourself.
 

PrettyDeadman

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Does this really matter? I mean if as ArchAngel says you'll be playing as a king then you'll have folk to do this kinda shit for you, you'll be making speeches, deciding goals and strategies for achieving em, inspecting your armies, deciding what level of taxation to apply, consulting with councillors and all that kinda shit. You wouldn't be so fucking stupid as to go out in the field without the men of the royal bodyguard and possibly a large entourage, even when touring your demense early in your rule to cement local support.

I suppose the stats will matter for your captain of the guard, spymaster, chief elfhunter, high priest etc.

If your subjects feel that your stats are too low or your level is too low (and the only way to get xp is fight or do fetch quests) they will stage a coup and it's an immediate game over.
 

Tacgnol

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There are a lot of really shit archetypes on the tabletop (often the overly ambitious ones).

Some really good ones as well.
 

Serious_Business

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If I understand correctly this rpgcodex site covers Pathfinder : Kingmaker Kickstarter - and it is "very cool" to do so

I am unsure about this, but the updates that keep flowing in my eyes slowly eliminate any possibility of critical judgement and so I endure in total passivity the Pathfinder Kingmaker Kickstarter. I await the elves update
 

ArchAngel

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Oh so we're basically just adventurers again, pity I was getting a bit hopeful for a minute there.
You are a mix. You start as adventurers and become Baron and then a King. You get more ruler tasks as time moves on but as high level characters in a D&D world some tasks only you and your party can accomplish.
 
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PrettyDeadman

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Oh so we're basically just adventurers again, pity I was getting a bit hopeful for a minute there.
You are a mix. You start as adventurers and become Baron and then a King. You get more ruler tasks as time moves on but as a high level characters in a D&D world some tasks only you and your party can accomplish.
So basically you are like knights of the round table? Nobility, but still skillful with sword, leaving castle to do holy grail quest and trying to romance your soverign's wife?
If people don't think that being like king Arthur is kingly enough for them, what could you possible give them? Some kind of Transport Tycoon with pathfinder ruleset?
 
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Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Does this really matter? I mean if as ArchAngel says you'll be playing as a king then you'll have folk to do this kinda shit for you, you'll be making speeches, deciding goals and strategies for achieving em, inspecting your armies, deciding what level of taxation to apply, consulting with councillors and all that kinda shit. You wouldn't be so fucking stupid as to go out in the field without the men of the royal bodyguard and possibly a large entourage, even when touring your demense early in your rule to cement local support.

I suppose the stats will matter for your captain of the guard, spymaster, chief elfhunter, high priest etc.

Oh so we're basically just adventurers again, pity I was getting a bit hopeful for a minute there.

lol were you really that naive? Most RPGs these days give you a fancy title but you end up being a murderhobo anyway, and Pathfinder generic RTwP fantasy certainly isn't going to be the exception.
 

PrettyDeadman

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lol were you really that naive? Most RPGs these days give you a fancy title but you end up being a murderhobo anyway, and Pathfinder generic RTwP fantasy certainly isn't going to be the exception.

kingmaker isn't developed by bioware or obsidian or bethesda or another generic dudebro rpg company, so it's not unreasonable to expeect originality from it.
and even if it's premise doesn't immediately break any new grounds, I still believe it will be unlike anything we've seen before (but also have all the best qualities of classic rpgs in its disposal).
 

Daedalos

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Not really up to speed on this RPG. So what's the KODEX's stance on this? Competitor to POE2/DOS2/NWN etc.?
 

ArchAngel

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Not really up to speed on this RPG. So what's the KODEX's stance on this? Competitor to POE2/DOS2/NWN etc.?
Hard to know at this stage. We will be able to answer that in Q2 2018 when they release their beta.
 

Iznaliu

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You are a mix. You start as adventurers and become Baron and then a King. You get more ruler tasks as time moves on but as high level characters in a D&D world some tasks only you and your party can accomplish.

Are you inside the Russians' heads?
 

Galdred

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Oh so we're basically just adventurers again, pity I was getting a bit hopeful for a minute there.
You are a mix. You start as adventurers and become Baron and then a King. You get more ruler tasks as time moves on but as a high level characters in a D&D world some tasks only you and your party can accomplish.
So basically you are like knights of the round table? Nobility, but still skillful with sword, leaving castle to do holy grail quest and trying to romance your soverign's wife?
If people don't think that being like king Arthur is kingly enough for them, what could you possible give them? Some kind of Transport Tycoon with pathfinder ruleset?
Actually, in the TT, you can play Sim City (more like magic item tycoon actually) with your hard earned adventuring cash, and it really looks like you'll be able to here too. But from what I have understood, they intended to rework the sim city part (to make it more adventurish? less broken?).
The Pathfinder adventur path also has rules for mass combat, but Owlcat said it wouldn't be in unless they get zillions in the KS, as it would require a lot of extra work.

lol were you really that naive? Most RPGs these days give you a fancy title but you end up being a murderhobo anyway, and Pathfinder generic RTwP fantasy certainly isn't going to be the exception.

From my understanding of their statements, they intend to present the kingdom decisions through Crusader Kings 2 style events, so it could already be seen as a step in the right direction (but seriously, why is nobody working on Birthright 2?).
 
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Homeric kings basically seem to be tribal leaders that are functionally equivalent to squad leaders in the Trojan war, with a fucktozen of them in Agamemnon's army (and he's not an uber-king or anything, he's just the guy they've appointed amongst equals to be general - that's why he can't force Achilles to stop being a whiny bitch and go fight in the Iliad).
 

ArchAngel

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You are a mix. You start as adventurers and become Baron and then a King. You get more ruler tasks as time moves on but as high level characters in a D&D world some tasks only you and your party can accomplish.

Are you inside the Russians' heads?
I just read most of the comments on the KS page, read all the campaign updates and all the interviews they give. And then also make some logical conclusions.
 
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PrettyDeadman

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You are a mix. You start as adventurers and become Baron and then a King. You get more ruler tasks as time moves on but as high level characters in a D&D world some tasks only you and your party can accomplish.

Are you inside the Russians' heads?
I just read most of the comments on the facebook page, read all the campaign updates and all the interviews they give. And then also make some logical conclusions.
Also read all the kickstarter comments & contributed at least 1/10th of all comments under their campaign.
 

Andhaira

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Ah, fuck yes, the Magus. My favorite class in Pathfinder, also has some of the coolest Archtypes in Bladebound (think Elric with Stormbringer/Yrkoon with Mournblade), Kensai (yes I know, I was surprised too!) and Spelldancer The base Magus class is also excellent for anyone wanting to play an armored sword/melee weapon wielding Warrior-Mage.

Though I had thought the Magus was included from the get-go, seeing as one of the character on the game poster appears to have the class (the half orc I think) . The fuckers also put Archtypes behind a stretchgoal wall. Well, lets hope they make 800,000/-.

It's a bummer that we only get to generate 1 PC, but hopefully the archtypes will be included in the NPCs the hero can recruit.
 

Andhaira

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Infinitron you should highlight the fact that the game will cover 4-5 years in game time over the course of the game.
 

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