Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with A Dance of Masks epilogue DLC

[Heroic Liberator]

Heard from Delterius that the EE doesn't even add the previously datamined Devil path extra content. Is that correct?

You can check that if you want spoilers.

What does "Complete Devil's Play, not obtainable through normal gameplay" mean?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Did anyone play BG this way?

Yes actually. In general solo run is considered challenge run.

 

[ArchAngel]

Did anyone play BG this way?

Yes actually. In general solo run is considered challenge run.

I have done a few, even ironman style. Bg1EE only

 

[Tsubutai]

Heard from Delterius that the EE doesn't even add the previously datamined Devil path extra content. Is that correct?

You can check that if you want spoilers.

What does "Complete Devil's Play, not obtainable through normal gameplay" mean?

It means that the trigger for the ending slide in question is activated by completing the quest Devil's Play, but the quest itself was not included in the EE so the ending slide cannot actually be seen without pulling some shenanigans.

 

[Desiderius]

Arcane Bomber was one of two favorite classes of best Unfair player on P:K Steam forum. Other one was Blight Druid. Dude was something else.

Arcane Bomber is now better at high levels than Alchemist, only problem is that his bombs don't have precision and can damage my own guys. I specialized him into Cold damage, took cold bombs and filled rest of the slots with Snowballs and then focused into ranged touch attacks and since both attacks ignore SR I didn't need to take any feats for that. Due to Mythic abilities and ability to metamagic Snowballs this dude is more useful than Alchemist at high levels.
It is kind of fun specializing into one spell :D I picked up Bolster, Empower, Maximize and Quicken spell and filled all slots that don't have some personal buffs with different combinations of these metamagicked Snowballs. I made Bolster 0 modifier with Mythic but now I am figuring out I am missing Reach as well and I should have made that one 0 modifier. Also I would love if the game had metamagic feat that lets you up the damage limit of the spell, Snowballs only being 5d6 is irritating.

I just don’t get everybody trying to solo the game with their MC. Did anyone play BG this way? Alch MC does plenty of damage with Bombs as long as rest of team is doing damage too and Bomb debuffs and Infusion buffs help them do it (and stay alive).

TTT has Intensified to get up to 10d6. I haven’t figured out the best way to go with Favorite Meta yet. I guess Reach could be good to turn on Full Attacks on Fast Bombs?

I don't solo but I tried to optimize my party so they clear encounters as fast as possible. And Grenadier is not pulling his weight at high levels, he is worse than my Vital Strike Heavy Crossbow Bard atm
Of course I am playing DLC3, don't care about main campaign that is about story and unlimited resting. Here is 5 islands with only 2 rests allowed.

He pulls his weight with AoE debuff (that bypasses SR and targets Touch) on offense that sets up rest of team. Tanglefoot is AoE AC/CMD/AB/movement debuff that triggers Concentration checks, Blind self explanatory, Curse targets Will even on Mind-Immune.

The one time I played Alch in Wrath I used Holy Bombs but those won’t be quite as good in DLC. You’ll also usually do just enough damage to interrupt a spell so can be used that way if debuff not needed, or Tanglefoot can Mez big dudes.

My MC in Unfair P:K run had that good itemization and the extra damage packet from Alchemical Weapon so maybe without that it would have felt weak? Idk the damage is kind of just gravy - compare to Hexes, not nukes.

Vital Strike XBow Bard? That makes no sense on about five different levels.

 

[ArchAngel]

Arcane Bomber was one of two favorite classes of best Unfair player on P:K Steam forum. Other one was Blight Druid. Dude was something else.

Arcane Bomber is now better at high levels than Alchemist, only problem is that his bombs don't have precision and can damage my own guys. I specialized him into Cold damage, took cold bombs and filled rest of the slots with Snowballs and then focused into ranged touch attacks and since both attacks ignore SR I didn't need to take any feats for that. Due to Mythic abilities and ability to metamagic Snowballs this dude is more useful than Alchemist at high levels.
It is kind of fun specializing into one spell :D I picked up Bolster, Empower, Maximize and Quicken spell and filled all slots that don't have some personal buffs with different combinations of these metamagicked Snowballs. I made Bolster 0 modifier with Mythic but now I am figuring out I am missing Reach as well and I should have made that one 0 modifier. Also I would love if the game had metamagic feat that lets you up the damage limit of the spell, Snowballs only being 5d6 is irritating.

I just don’t get everybody trying to solo the game with their MC. Did anyone play BG this way? Alch MC does plenty of damage with Bombs as long as rest of team is doing damage too and Bomb debuffs and Infusion buffs help them do it (and stay alive).

TTT has Intensified to get up to 10d6. I haven’t figured out the best way to go with Favorite Meta yet. I guess Reach could be good to turn on Full Attacks on Fast Bombs?

I don't solo but I tried to optimize my party so they clear encounters as fast as possible. And Grenadier is not pulling his weight at high levels, he is worse than my Vital Strike Heavy Crossbow Bard atm
Of course I am playing DLC3, don't care about main campaign that is about story and unlimited resting. Here is 5 islands with only 2 rests allowed.

He pulls his weight with AoE debuff (that bypasses SR and targets Touch) on offense that sets up rest of team. Tanglefoot is AoE AC/CMD/AB/movement debuff that triggers Concentration checks, Blind self explanatory, Curse targets Will even on Mind-Immune.

The one time I played Alch in Wrath I used Holy Bombs but those won’t be quite as good in DLC. You’ll also usually do just enough damage to interrupt a spell so can be used that way if debuff not needed, or Tanglefoot can Mez big dudes.

My MC in Unfair P:K run had that good itemization and the extra damage packet from Alchemical Weapon so maybe without that it would have felt weak? Idk the damage is kind of just gravy - compare to Hexes, not nukes.

Vital Strike XBow Bard? That makes no sense on about five different levels.

Debuff bombs are even less useful, damage ones at least guarantee damage and they can crit. Holy bombs are useless as are all other kinds due to Mythic ability to choose element and bypass all resistance and immunity.

Vital Strike Bard is secondary for a Thunder Bard but it ended up better than Grenadier once I got enough buffs, Improved Vital strike and Mythic Vital Strike. Not to mention all the extra bonus damage that bard buffs give to party.

 

[Desiderius]

Bard has *zero* ranged Touch spells in its entire Spellbook. This is a hint. Stop trying to make ranged Bard happen.

 

[Desiderius]

The Bombs I listed do damage *and* debuff. Are you still just using Fire Bombs or something? Or are you talking about the ones you can buy? Maybe you can use those with Alchemical to stack debuffs.

Bard has no ranged abilities (and as noted no ranged touch spells). Ranged is Feat intensive and Bard needs Feats for Lingering/Dazzling/Casting along with generally strong things like Improved Initiative and even TW/skill stuff. Melee is one feat (Outflank) and you’re good.

It also really needs Flank/Outflank/Edge to consistently hit since it’s 3/4 and has no abilities to boost its own AB (like Mutagen, Studied Target etc). In melee you’ve got Heavy Shield prof, Image, Longsword/Shortsword/Rapier prof and as a caster/Intimidator first round you won’t get attacked much anyway.

Vital Strike on ranged is just bad because whole reason for ranged is more full attacks and on 3/4 it’s even worse. You can’t even get to Greater. Nonbo with Sense Vitals.

Mythics aren’t free! What is Mythic VS even buying you on XBow with no STR to dam?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Bard has *zero* ranged Touch spells in its entire Spellbook. This is a hint. Stop trying to make ranged Bard happen.

 

[Desiderius]

Idk man this seems like melee



The problem with the optimization own is that most of what I'm doing is breaking down why autolevel outperforms 90% of "builds" that are just making the game harder than it needs to be. You can have your casual cake and eat it too with this ruleset.

 

[Average Manatee]

Bard has *zero* ranged Touch spells in its entire Spellbook. This is a hint. Stop trying to make ranged Bard happen.

Actually me. I won't make a MC for which the portrait won't fit, won't use outside portraits unless they really match the artstyle well, and my primary limitation for multiclassing companions is whether the portrait fits. Hence no armor-less builds for a character clearly in heavy armor and vice versa. If a weapon type is visible in the portrait then that's going to be the weapon focus, no excuses.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Actually me. I won't make a MC for which the portrait won't fit, won't use outside portraits unless they really match the artstyle well, and my primary limitation for multiclassing companions is whether the portrait fits. Hence no armor-less builds for a character clearly in heavy armor and vice versa. If a weapon type is visible in the portrait then that's going to be the weapon focus, no excuses.

Good conditions for self-limiting challenge runs. Depending on the available portraits, the difficulty can be up 1 level. maybe a little more.

However, the companions are so good that they might carry even a crippled MC.

 

[Daidre]

The Bombs I listed do damage *and* debuff. Are you still just using Fire Bombs or something? Or are you talking about the ones you can buy? Maybe you can use those with Alchemical to stack debuffs.

IMHO closest thing to bomber would be Kineticist with his range touch attacks plus narrow selection of debuffs riding on them, only difference is spell penetration. And this competitor makes any bombs look like utter trash.
Of course, Alchs got spellbook and some good discoveries but Vivi got all of them too and his martial prowess is nothing to sneeze at. With all that, bomber Alchemist is goddamn awful MC for the main campaign, who has 0 items and 0 synergy with mythic paths, but ok-ish for DLC 3 because why not, there are 5 other people and run is over in ~10-15 hours at worst anyway.

 

[Desiderius]

Has anyone even played Alch with Cognatogen? Maybe I'm relying too much on (imaginary in Wrath) DC boosting equipment? But Alch also gets Feat to boost Bomb DCs by 2 as well. And Spell Pen isn't a minor consideration. Vivi's fine but just gives you more of what you already have. SR bypass, high DC, Touch damage + good debuff that can attack weak Save is rare.

Maybe this:

https://github.com/Vek17/TabletopTweaks-Base/issues/486

is the problem?

Could be I'm relying too much on P:K Alch experience but there it was great. Holy Bombs can be used to free up Ascendant Mythic slot (for Abundant x 2 for starters) vs high Fire Resist and Stagger is a solid condition

 

[Haplo]

Ember is very effective vs locusts with her Flame Arc. Just try to keep her away to avoid nauseated...

It's kinda hard because rarely you could set her up using Flame Arc while not having her getting pelted by the Cambrion Rangers that sits around in the table but yeah it is effective.

I think Ember put some of them to sleep. Some others were egaged by the same characters, who charged Jeslyn.

 

[ArchAngel]

The Bombs I listed do damage *and* debuff. Are you still just using Fire Bombs or something? Or are you talking about the ones you can buy? Maybe you can use those with Alchemical to stack debuffs.

Bard has no ranged abilities (and as noted no ranged touch spells). Ranged is Feat intensive and Bard needs Feats for Lingering/Dazzling/Casting along with generally strong things like Improved Initiative and even TW/skill stuff. Melee is one feat (Outflank) and you’re good.

It also really needs Flank/Outflank/Edge to consistently hit since it’s 3/4 and has no abilities to boost its own AB (like Mutagen, Studied Target etc). In melee you’ve got Heavy Shield prof, Image, Longsword/Shortsword/Rapier prof and as a caster/Intimidator first round you won’t get attacked much anyway.

Vital Strike on ranged is just bad because whole reason for ranged is more full attacks and on 3/4 it’s even worse. You can’t even get to Greater. Nonbo with Sense Vitals.

Mythics aren’t free! What is Mythic VS even buying you on XBow with no STR to dam?

Man, you are so bad at this game
I am using Explosive Bomb that gives me more AoE. Grenadier is at least kind of useful at doing his low damage to groups.
Why do I need touch attacks? Bard has bard talents are are useless and I pick up bonus perks with it.
For Vital Strike ranged you don't need most ranged perks, just precise and vital strike.

Sure flank and outflank are good but that is melee which then gets hit so needs defenses as well so more cost in stats and perks.

Actually Vital Strike on 3/4 is better because 3/4 character has real problems hitting with their weaker attacks and Vital Strike fixes that. Also it good way to basically ignore enemy DR which multiple attacks cannot.

And to end the school for today, Mythic Vital Strike multiplies all bonuses, not just strength ones. Without that Vital strike is only extra weapon roll which would be additional d10 for crossbows. But now it is +5 enchant, +2 Good Hope, +4 Inspire, +1 Point Blank and other bonuses.

Also I didn't mention Vital Strike Crossbow Bard as some awesome build but to show that high level Bombardier cannot even outdamage badly built ranged Stormcaller Bard.

 

[Desiderius]

I am using Explosive Bomb

Welp, at least we found out why your Bomber sux.

You’re kind if missing the point, bro. Consider an alternative hypothesis to me being bad. Maybe Haplo can walk you through it.

Cognatogen gives extra damage along with the DC. Should be able to hit +12 INT bonus by lvl 12, which is 30 DC against weakest save at 3 saves per/turn. Curse Bomb is -4 on attacks *and saves*, its like double Evil Eye with 42 damage tacked on.

AoE is nice I guess (especially when it Entangles) but spending a Discovery and turning off your debuffs is just mind-boggling.

 

[ArchAngel]

I am using Explosive Bomb

Welp, at least we found out why your Bomber sux.

You’re kind if missing the point, bro. Consider an alternative hypothesis to me being bad. Maybe Haplo can walk you through it.

Cognatogen gives extra damage along with the DC. Should be able to hit +12 INT bonus by lvl 12, which is 30 DC against weakest save at 3 saves per/turn. Curse Bomb is -4 on attacks *and saves*, its like double Evil Eye with 42 damage tacked on.

AoE is nice I guess (especially when it Entangles) but spending a Discovery and turning off your debuffs is just mind-boggling.

You are missing the point. I cannot attack 3 times per turn because I need to clear 2 islands before rest and each one has like 10+ fights of my level or higher. You are giving stupid and useless advice. And I don't need them to fail their saves, I need them to die. I don't have problems hitting them and I don't need to debuff them.
This stupid Vital Strike Bard does more damage per hit than one bomb and has no limits.
Grenadier can burst bosses but that is where his usefulness stops. But even vs bosses it is not awesome damage. My Kineticist does more damage with its one attack than Grenadier with the burst.

 

[Desiderius]

It's not stupid and useless unless the rest of your team sux. Tanglefoot once or twice a fight for AoE Entangle to help rest of your team kill stuff and avoid getting killed, use the Cold-whatever XBow for decent damage to save Bombs for the bursting. Don't waste your Mythic on Ascendant but get Abundant so you can get Shields and Retreat and Barkskins and Reduce/Enlarges and Stat buffs and *Haste* up (much) more often. If you don't understand how much VS Bard sux you're not using enough Haste.

Whenever people complain about damage it means they're putting themselves in unnecessary damage races instead of making use of the AoE debuffs at your disposal like Archons and Dazzling and yeah Tanglefoot Bomb (along with Bard AoE spells that you can fire off first round which means melee Bard hardly ever gets attacked and has Image if they do). If you don't need to debuff to hit there's no reason you should be so desperate for damage that you're giving up the thing that makes Bombs unique. Hexes can't force multiple Saves a turn, nor can Kinnie Blasts. Bombs can and with good DCs and ways to attack all three saves.

 

[ArchAngel]

It's not stupid and useless unless the rest of your team sux. Tanglefoot once or twice a fight for AoE Entangle to help rest of your team kill stuff and avoid getting killed, use the Cold-whatever XBow for decent damage to save Bombs for the bursting. Don't waste your Mythic on Ascendant but get Abundant so you can get Shields and Retreat and Barkskins and Reduce/Enlarges and Stat buffs and *Haste* up (much) more often. If you don't understand how much VS Bard sux you're not using enough Haste.

Whenever people complain about damage it means they're putting themselves in unnecessary damage races instead of making use of the AoE debuffs at your disposal like Archons and Dazzling and yeah Tanglefoot Bomb (along with Bard AoE spells that you can fire off first round which means melee Bard hardly ever gets attacked and has Image if they do). If you don't need to debuff to hit there's no reason you should be so desperate for damage that you're giving up the thing that makes Bombs unique. Hexes can't force multiple Saves a turn, nor can Kinnie Blasts. Bombs can and with good DCs and ways to attack all three saves.

You are completely ignoring what I am saying. Go play DLC3. I don't care for your experience with campaign. It is a different (easier) game.

 

[Desiderius]

It's not stupid and useless unless the rest of your team sux. Tanglefoot once or twice a fight for AoE Entangle to help rest of your team kill stuff and avoid getting killed, use the Cold-whatever XBow for decent damage to save Bombs for the bursting. Don't waste your Mythic on Ascendant but get Abundant so you can get Shields and Retreat and Barkskins and Reduce/Enlarges and Stat buffs and *Haste* up (much) more often. If you don't understand how much VS Bard sux you're not using enough Haste.

Whenever people complain about damage it means they're putting themselves in unnecessary damage races instead of making use of the AoE debuffs at your disposal like Archons and Dazzling and yeah Tanglefoot Bomb (along with Bard AoE spells that you can fire off first round which means melee Bard hardly ever gets attacked and has Image if they do). If you don't need to debuff to hit there's no reason you should be so desperate for damage that you're giving up the thing that makes Bombs unique. Hexes can't force multiple Saves a turn, nor can Kinnie Blasts. Bombs can and with good DCs and ways to attack all three saves.

You are completely ignoring what I am saying. Go play DLC3.

Lol I just did with Preservationist. Spamming high level Nature's Ally's with Improved Abundant takes a lot of heat off too. You're damage racing when you don't need to. Distract/debuff/disable and to give your main attackers time to take out the trash. The common theme is trying to do things with classes that are not their strengths instead of taking advantage of the things that are. That's where you get in trouble with 10+ fights. You should also be able to use Enhance/Extend Potion to take advantage of consumables to give yourself a lot more staying power.

 

[ArchAngel]

It's not stupid and useless unless the rest of your team sux. Tanglefoot once or twice a fight for AoE Entangle to help rest of your team kill stuff and avoid getting killed, use the Cold-whatever XBow for decent damage to save Bombs for the bursting. Don't waste your Mythic on Ascendant but get Abundant so you can get Shields and Retreat and Barkskins and Reduce/Enlarges and Stat buffs and *Haste* up (much) more often. If you don't understand how much VS Bard sux you're not using enough Haste.

Whenever people complain about damage it means they're putting themselves in unnecessary damage races instead of making use of the AoE debuffs at your disposal like Archons and Dazzling and yeah Tanglefoot Bomb (along with Bard AoE spells that you can fire off first round which means melee Bard hardly ever gets attacked and has Image if they do). If you don't need to debuff to hit there's no reason you should be so desperate for damage that you're giving up the thing that makes Bombs unique. Hexes can't force multiple Saves a turn, nor can Kinnie Blasts. Bombs can and with good DCs and ways to attack all three saves.

You are completely ignoring what I am saying. Go play DLC3.

Lol I just did with Preservationist. Spamming high level Nature's Ally's with Improved Abundant takes a lot of heat off too. You're damage racing when you don't need to. Distract/debuff/disable and to give your main attackers time to take out the trash. The common theme is trying to do things with classes that are not their strengths instead of taking advantage of the things that are. That's where you get in trouble with 10+ fights. You should also be able to use Enhance/Extend Potion to take advantage of consumables to give yourself a lot more staying power.

I have staying power because others I took are more useful, I just took this Grenadier because of touch attack tailwind but he is not keeping up. Last time I am using bomb based alchemist. And without this Tailwind he would be hilariously bad.

EDIT: Even as a debuffer Alch is bad. That mutagen is not enough. It has no mythic feats for DC, no special items. Only main stat and one feat. No things like Persistent metamagic. Spells are way more powerful than what these bombs do, even witch hexes are better as they do their effect even if enemy saves.
Not to mention low range of bombs. You often need to move to get into range and can then only attack once. Spells don't have this problem.

 

[Desiderius]

Bombs bypass SR. Bomber's Eye gives 40 ft Range. It doesn't need a Mythic for DC since it has a Feat that gives +2 on it's own. Cognato is +2 DC right off the bat then goes up to +3 at lvl 12 and +4 at lvl 16 and of course it's enough because of how easy it is to attack weak Save and because you *can* force multiple saves a turn if needed. It sets up prefectly for attacking Reflex to Mez/soften up heavy hitter adds with Tanglefoot AoE, then you can Blind Pillars/Archers and Curse Mind-Immune.

I had Merged Angel Crusader with +9 AB/AC from Mirror spamming 44 DC Arbitraments with gazillion CL, Nomad on unhittable Horse (well set up for Mounted Feats), broken Elemental Engine that doubles Overflow bonuses, Dirge Bard that can Intimidate/Discord Undead, Winter Witch with super meta Snowballs. Why do I need a few more damage on my Alch? Just makes no sense. Only weakness is SR and Alch cuts right through it. Alch is there for Infusions and to turn on found/brewed Pots for staying power. The question is what else to take with it. SR bypasssing three save debuffs with substantial damage tacked on (you're also nerfing your damage without Cognato, especially with that Tailwind) are a unique enough effect to make that cut unless you've got a Tailwind pulling you toward Vivi or Metamorph. Only question is Grenadier, Preservationist, or Chiurgeon (don't laugh). Incense Synth Bombs do even less damage but it may be the way to go once they get it working.

 

[Desiderius]

Lack of items is admittedly big downside and for variety if nothing else I'll be looking for a chance to go Metamorph when I can. But currently have Tailwind of Arrows so it will be Grenadier to test if you can use Stun/Blind Bombs with Alchemical Weapon.

 

[ArchAngel]

Bombs bypass SR. Bomber's Eye gives 40 ft Range. It doesn't need a Mythic for DC since it has a Feat that gives +2 on it's own. Cognato is +2 DC right off the bat then goes up to +3 at lvl 12 and +4 at lvl 16 and of course it's enough because of how easy it is to attack weak Save and because you *can* force multiple saves a turn if needed. It sets up prefectly for attacking Reflex to Mez/soften up heavy hitter adds with Tanglefoot AoE, then you can Blind Pillars/Archers and Curse Mind-Immune.

I had Merged Angel Crusader with +9 AB/AC from Mirror spamming 44 DC Arbitraments with gazillion CL, Nomad on unhittable Horse (well set up for Mounted Feats), broken Elemental Engine that doubles Overflow bonuses, Dirge Bard that can Intimidate/Discord Undead, Winter Witch with super meta Snowballs. Why do I need a few more damage on my Alch? Just makes no sense. Only weakness is SR and Alch cuts right through it. Alch is there for Infusions and to turn on found/brewed Pots for staying power. The question is what else to take with it. SR bypasssing three save debuffs with substantial damage tacked on (you're also nerfing your damage without Cognato, especially with that Tailwind) are a unique enough effect to make that cut unless you've got a Tailwind pulling you toward Vivi or Metamorph. Only question is Grenadier, Preservationist, or Chiurgeon (don't laugh). Incense Synth Bombs do even less damage but it may be the way to go once they get it working.

SR is zero issue at this part of the game, 40 ft range is still bad and based on spell that lasts 1 round per level. The rest is still weaker than what controller casters can do.