Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with A Dance of Masks epilogue DLC

[Jaedar]

I think exploiter wizard can get more +DC, which is arguably better than casting lots of spells.

By 1, yes. But there are enough trinkets that up the DC of mind-affecting spells that Nenio's DCs are not an issue.

Ehh, you can never have too much DC. And +2 DC is a pretty big boost. At least I remember Nenios weirds missing occasionally, and phantasmal killers very often.

BFTs also do this, BTW :D

What is BFT?

 

[Daidre]

EDIT: Incidentally, is there a Toybox option or similar tweak to prevent Rage from stopping when you exit combat?

There is such component in Tabletop Tweaks, but installing it mid-run is imho very questionable. It is fully modular so you can switch on/off each component separately (big respects to Vek for setting de-facto standard for Wrath modding), but it would still be a pain to reconfigure it in such way that half of your build won't fall apart.

 

[Grunker]

I think exploiter wizard can get more +DC, which is arguably better than casting lots of spells.

By 1, yes. But there are enough trinkets that up the DC of mind-affecting spells that Nenio's DCs are not an issue.

Ehh, you can never have too much DC. And +2 DC is a pretty big boost. At least I remember Nenios weirds missing occasionally, and phantasmal killers very often.

BFTs also do this, BTW :D

What is BFT?

Brown Fur Transmuter, I presume

 

[Grunker]

EDIT: Incidentally, is there a Toybox option or similar tweak to prevent Rage from stopping when you exit combat?

There is such component in Tabletop Tweaks, but installing it mid-run is imho very questionable. It is fully modular mod so you can switch on/off each component (big respects to Vek for setting de-facto standard for Wrath modding), but it would still be a pain to reconfigure it in such way that half of your build won't fall apart.

TTT is installed, but not that component Why would it break stuff?

EDIT: Actually, TTT is not installed either.

 

[Daidre]

Why would it break stuff?

Well it enforces Dragon Bloodline for Dragon Disciple, among the other things, could do weird things to your MC. You can switch it off too, of course. Bloodlines > Bloodline Restrictions, iirc.

 

[Grunker]

Why would it break stuff?

Well it enforces Dragon Bloodline for Dragon Disciple, among the other things, could do weird things to your MC. You can switch it off too, of course. Bloodlines > Bloodline Restrictions, iirc.

Ah. I thought TTT came baseline with everything disabled and then you enabled what you wanted.

 

[Lambach]

What I'd do here is Stigmatized Witch 4/Scaled Fist 3/Dragon Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight7/Vivisectionist 2. Motherless Tiefling (for another bite). And Close To The Abyss for first ascension.
Use Transformation to bring your BAB up to snuff

 

[Jaedar]

Brown Fur Transmuter, I presume

Those aren't wizards . I don't think anyone is disputing Brown Furs as being the best arcanist, or the best buffers. Arcanists are nice but they don't scale as well as wizards with the mythic ++casts stuff, since you are always fundamentally limited by how many different spells you can slot.

Why would it break stuff?

Well it enforces Dragon Bloodline for Dragon Disciple, among the other things, could do weird things to your MC. You can switch it off too, of course. Bloodlines > Bloodline Restrictions, iirc.

I thought the game already enforced that.

 

[Daidre]

I thought the game already enforced that.

Not for the Bloodragers.

 

[Tsubutai]

Fatigue after raging is something that could work fine in tabletop where combat encounters are widely spaced in time and you can more or less guarantee that the rager will have recovered by the time the next one comes around but just doesn't work at all in CRPGs where you can have dozens of encounters on a single map.

 

[Grunker]

Brown Fur Transmuter, I presume

Those aren't wizards . I don't think anyone is disputing Brown Furs as being the best arcanist, or the best buffers. Arcanists are nice but they don't scale as well as wizards with the mythic ++casts stuff, since you are always fundamentally limited by how many different spells you can slot.

Why would it break stuff?

Well it enforces Dragon Bloodline for Dragon Disciple, among the other things, could do weird things to your MC. You can switch it off too, of course. Bloodlines > Bloodline Restrictions, iirc.

I thought the game already enforced that.

Bloodragers specifically can pick up DD without Draconic Bloodline. It's a very weird interaction because you can still pick a Draconic Bloodline when entering DD, you just get no benefits from it. I dunno if it's a bug or what.

It doesn't really matter though, because Abyssal Bloodline doesn't give the build much, so even if it was enforced you could get around the restriction with Second Bloodline -> Draconic Bloodline and be just fine.

 

[Grunker]

What I'd do here is Stigmatized Witch 4/Scaled Fist 3/Dragon Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight7/Vivisectionist 2. Motherless Tiefling (for another bite). And Close To The Abyss for first ascension.
Use Transformation to bring your BAB up to snuff

If you really dislike dipping, Feral Champion just might be the version of the build for you. It should even work with Demonic Transformations because the enhancement and dice scalings probably carry over (haven't tested it, though). It does mean you're relying less on tons of natural attacks until you get the transformations, however. You still have your claws and a couple of bites though.

My build seems "dippy" but it does do Bloodrager 12 and one of the dips is Oracle which is literally just for that single Bite (which again, arguably not exactly optimal).

The best way to do rip-and-tear demon (best as in most optimal) is probably to rely on those transformations since they're very powerful. But I just find side-stepping the actual build you're doing by clicking one button to be somewhat boring.

 

[Longes]

What I'd do here is Stigmatized Witch 4/Scaled Fist 3/Dragon Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight7/Vivisectionist 2. Motherless Tiefling (for another bite). And Close To The Abyss for first ascension.
Use Transformation to bring your BAB up to snuff

Yeah, you tell me your mono-class build that maximizes the number of natural attacks and works from level 1.

You can juggle around the order of operations, the build I suggested works about as well as a regular sorcerer into dragon disciple does. Because that's literally what it is - take Monk 1, then Witch 4, then Dragon Disciple 4. And then you should be getting your Mythic Demon. You can do Monk 1/Eldritch Knight 9 instead of what I posted - it was a build tailored for the Lich, which wanted to get more out of unarmed attacks.

 

[Yosharian]

I think the writer for Regill even said the other staff kinda hated him (the character, not the writer)

Seriously? Do you have a source for that?

 

[Daidre]

The best way to do rip-and-tear demon (best as in most optimal) is probably to rely on those transformations since they're very powerful. But I just find side-stepping the actual build you're doing by clicking one button to be somewhat boring.

There is another aspect to it - Chapters 1-3 are where the most of the game's "meat" is. And because of it I never build any MCs who are heavily reliant on MR 5+ features in the main campaign - and demonic transformation spells are one of such features.

 

[Grunker]

The best way to do rip-and-tear demon (best as in most optimal) is probably to rely on those transformations since they're very powerful. But I just find side-stepping the actual build you're doing by clicking one button to be somewhat boring.

There is another aspect to it - Chapters 1-3 is where the most of the game's "meat" is. And because of it I never build any MCs who are heavily reliant on MR 5+ features in the main campaign - and demonic transformation spells are one of such features.

Yeah but you're not relying on it, that's the point. The whole point of doing rip-and-tear with the transformations is that it essentially doesn't matter much what you do up until that point as long as your build interacts well with those transformations; i.e. you could do whatever the fuck you wanted to and that played well in chap 1-3.

 

[Jaedar]

I think the writer for Regill even said the other staff kinda hated him (the character, not the writer)

Seriously? Do you have a source for that?

Nope, I think I read it somewhere (either this thread or on the subreddit) but can't find anything via googling, all I get are guides to regill builds.

Edit: this interview https://www.gamespace.com/all-articles/news/pf-wotr-developer-interview/ seems to contradict it though, so likely I am mistaken.

 

[Yosharian]

Grunker have you explored the use of the Demon Dancer archetype for adding a natural attack to your party? If so, do you happen to know if the added natural attack benefits from all those Demon abilities you mentioned

 

[Grunker]

Grunker have you explored the use of the Demon Dancer archetype for adding a natural attack to your party? If so, do you happen to know if the added natural attack benefits from all those Demon abilities you mentioned

No, I decided very early not to use a Skald (otherwise at least three of my builds would change completely), so I can't answer that unfortunately.

I dislike classes that basically make other classes superflous (at least partially).

 

[Yosharian]

Grunker have you explored the use of the Demon Dancer archetype for adding a natural attack to your party? If so, do you happen to know if the added natural attack benefits from all those Demon abilities you mentioned

No, I decided very early not to use a Skald (otherwise at least three of my builds would change completely), so I can't answer that unfortunately.

I dislike classes that basically make other classes superflous (at least partially).

I see. Well sir, credit where credit is due, you appear to have found a very interesting niche build and I am now thinking of designing a CE team around natural attacks

 

[Grunker]

Grunker have you explored the use of the Demon Dancer archetype for adding a natural attack to your party? If so, do you happen to know if the added natural attack benefits from all those Demon abilities you mentioned

No, I decided very early not to use a Skald (otherwise at least three of my builds would change completely), so I can't answer that unfortunately.

I dislike classes that basically make other classes superflous (at least partially).

I see. Well sir, credit where credit is due, you appear to have found a very interesting niche build and I am now thinking of designing a CE team around natural attacks

Awesome! Lotssa credit is due to Daidre as well though. And I think the reason I chose Bloodrager was due to some rando YouTuber who made a kindda shitty version of something similar, based on the transformations (but still pointed me towards Bloodrager as the base)

 

[Desiderius]

Is Pipefox pet thingie from near Finnean just gone now?

Apparently it's still there but is no longer highlighted by pressing tab so you just have to click blindly in the area where it's supposed to be and hope you pick the right spot.

There was some other loot that showed up on the map where that worked but not there.

Plus the trend has always been not to give NPCs the clearly best and OP archetypes.

Lol clearly best for your playstyle. Scroll Savant/Illusion Magic takes a back seat to nobody. Weird Controller not a perfect fit with bite/pounce obviously (though a Natural Attack build is there too and the Illusion spells go well with that to make her a Displacer Beast) but you know from Minagho and Shadow Votary what Putrefaction/PhantWeb can do and there is no end to the value Scroll Savant can add. It's like a Pseudo BFT already with a smattering of UMD on the other characters and she turns on all the crappy found scrolls for her own use.

Nenio's Scroll Savant is clearly the best Wizard archetype though. Once you hit level 10 - you have infinite spells. It's even good on a Lich PC because you can fill all your slots with Lich spells and cast everything else from a scroll.

Game isn't one-dimensional, but from that it also follows that Scroll Savant, like Octavia's Arcane Trickster, isn't strictly worse either.

All those phone game devs got you guys messed up.

 

[Daidre]

There was some other loot that showed up on the map where that worked but not there.

I was able to loot it in my current run. Highlight never works but pointer changes to "hand" in the right place.

Pipefox should be in this area

 

[Cyberarmy]

I see. Well sir, credit where credit is due, you appear to have found a very interesting niche build and I am now thinking of designing a CE team around natural attacks

I did it the DLC and it's quite poweful though tailwind helped much (huge party wide heals on kill)3-4 attackers with 1-2 support could easly rock the main campaign.

 

[LannTheStupid]

There was some other loot that showed up on the map where that worked but not there.

I was able to loot it in my current run. Highlight never works but pointer changes to "hand" in the right place.

Pipefox should be in this area

They just added some good old pixel hunting for the sake of nostalgia. Totally works as intended.