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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - now in BETA STAGE 2 - coming September 2nd

Discussion in 'Owlcat Games' started by purpleblob, Nov 27, 2019.

  1. Xamenos Magister Patron

    Xamenos
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Is this yet more datamined dialogue someone supposedly machine-translated from Russian on 4chan?
     
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  2. Lord of Riva Prophet Patron

    Lord of Riva
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    Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Two things to that: Time-limits may be resources but it is just one of many, there simply is no reason to have such a focus on time management and there is no objective truth to your statement. In short you like time limits, which is fine, but it is clearly not mandatory not to have a good game nor a hard game.

    Also game-design isn't a mythical unicorn that can't be wrong I have seen some shitty games in my life you certainly have too, I would think so claiming that it is always the user, instead of the game-design who has "a Problem" is pretty retarded.

    The time limits in KM both lacked transparency and due to the game being an absolute bugfest (EDIT: early on, mind you) were more of a pointless hindrance than an interesting resource to manage. Having C&C due to time-limits like someone here described in chapter 1 is obviously the better solution but even then, there is no inherent reason to have time-limits at all and games can be pretty hard and challenging without them.
     
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  3. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
    Joined:
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    If you dick around Demons will own your shit.

    Life itself has a timer. Use it or lose it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomere

    Alpha had a nice system. People who paid into the Crusade Kickstarter wanted regular reports of your progress. If you didn't produce any they'd bail, if you did they'd kick in some more and morale would improve.

    They shouldn't have abandoned it for the Beta.
     
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  4. Testownia Guest

    Testownia
    A dev on Discord claimed that every Path will have two such routes. So far the confirmed/datamined ones are:
    - Angel of Mercy/Angel of Retribution (that's how said dev called it),
    - Gold Dragon/Tarnished Gold Dragon,
    - Swarm-That-Walks that is fully monstrous/retains some of its humanity,

    I have no idea, for example, how can you diversify a Trickster.
     
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  5. Testownia Guest

    Testownia
    "The Cunny Commander" - another fucking coomer.
     
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  6. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
    Joined:
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Pimp/ho
     
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  7. Testownia Guest

    Testownia
    Ha ha... but seriously, still have no idea how you can introduce different routes to such a random, nonsensical Path. Maybe they'll finally introduce some punishment if you try to be fully Chaotic Good? After all, not a single one of the Elders is.

    By the way, Desiderius, your thought on making Harrim a Sacred Fist in Kingmaker?
     
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  8. Salvo Savant

    Salvo
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
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    628
    Fey/Shyka path vs your own thing Path
     
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  9. Testownia Guest

    Testownia
    The problem is that all the choices you make are so "lol random" that making proper routes out of them seems impossible, whilst only making a difference at the ultimate choice is hardly what I'd call a "route", especially when compared to the Angel Path, where the two approaches are different from the get-go.

    Some of the others are no-brainers:
    - Demon - Full Evil Psychopath vs. Fight Fire with Fire
    - Lich - Full Evil Overlord vs "Mortal" Lawful Neutral Lich

    Also - any ideas on what are the two different Azata routes?
     
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  10. CaesarCzech Learned

    CaesarCzech
    Joined:
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    The problem with time limits in KM was they were absolute, Like if im Baron there is no reason i cant hire couple of mercenaries for trollhunting which will extend time limit I still have to deal with it myself but i get more time because it slows them down, allow me to trade resources for time or allow my decisions to influence the time, like if managed to get Trolls as vassals Barbarian invasion should have higher time limit because dont tell me that trolls wont slow them down for while. The problem was that time limit didnt feel natural and wasnt integrated seamlessly.
     
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  11. CaesarCzech Learned

    CaesarCzech
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    The problem was if you were doing TOO WELL you run out of enemies to kill.

    Tricker could be Joker/Loki. chaos being the goal and chaos being the means, ie Doing shit for lulz, or doing utterly insane batshit crazy things to reach your goal and making it work because you are just that crazy to make it work.
     
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  12. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2019
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Lol, bring it Foucault. Second Law already has you by the short hairs.

    Great thematically but class was lackluster. Doesn’t fit well at all with starting level and stats.[/QUOTE]
     
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  13. Dodo1610 Magister

    Dodo1610
    Joined:
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    Germany
    Another orchestra upload

     
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  14. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    Entre a serra e o mar.
    It could be degrees of nonsense. Trickster who loses themselves in the joke =/= Trickster who retains some level of rationale and self interests behind their tricksting. Its good enough that you keep people guessing what you're thinking. But it could also be there's no master plan behind the curtain. No different from swarm retaining some humanity, really.
     
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  15. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
    Joined:
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Killing too many enemies is bad = trivially easy problem to fix.

    Loki is Joker. Maggots/Fungi make nutrients for new life.
     
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  16. Lord of Riva Prophet Patron

    Lord of Riva
    Joined:
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    Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    The problem with that was that had to limit yourself to two battles per time interval lest you loose noble support. This was damning if you were efficient enough to clear the map before the story events triggered as you had no battles left to win, you lost moral. My guess is it would have lead to a game over.

    So not only were people punished for being shit, but also for being too fast. There was a reason why they get rid of it.

    EDIT: Yes I am serious, I ended on I believe 20 Noble Moral in Alpha due to this shit, could have lost the campaign because of this not thought through system.
     
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  17. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    a) this was easily managed playerside

    b) its also trivial to tweak the design to avoid the issue altogether

    Trashing the whole thing has massive downsides.
     
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  18. Lord of Riva Prophet Patron

    Lord of Riva
    Joined:
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    Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Sure you could manage this on the player side, you just had to force yourself to skip two weeks after every two battles, what a great design it's a reverse time-limit and not all kinds of ass.

    The system was a mess and look I am not suggesting that the crusade mechanics should not be challenging (I would however prefer a strengthening of the enemies over time instead of some arbitrary timeframe).
    It seems to be evident that it was not "easy" to avoid the issue altogether, my guess is that it both needs to be a limiting factor while not being ass for those who are not too stupid to use archers.
     
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  19. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
    Joined:
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I didn't have that experience until maybe late chapter 3 but by then it didn't matter. Can you really not think of any number of ways to fine tune things so that doesn't matter? Would we really abandon a Kickstarter for doing too much ahead of schedule?

    There is nothing arbitrary about neglected threats becoming stronger over time. It is merely real.

    Fixing the original problem is easy. They've left all sorts of trivially easy things undone for whatever reason. I mean it would be trivially easy to clean my office as well.
     
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  20. Lord of Riva Prophet Patron

    Lord of Riva
    Joined:
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    Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Sure you could just have counted upwards and set a threshoold instead of a two battle limit per week, which is what i suggested in their survey btw. But this system was actually not really challenging at all, unless you look at those who have never played a HoMaM game or are retarded.

    Which is what I would prefer, the attacking army should scale until its dangerous enough to topple yours, give the players one automatic defence as a warning and then let the city burn.

    Well they work quite fast, but there are still loads of issues in the game, espcecially in the UI department i hope they learned their lesson from KM. And I would say that the whole crusade mechanics is pretty barebones anyways which is most likely the factor why some people find it too hard (... in discord...) and others way to easy because it is.
     
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  21. LannTheStupid Товарищ Patron

    LannTheStupid
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
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    Location:
    Soviet Union
    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    So there are two kinds of players: those who can deduce the game mechanics by trial and error and those who want everything to be presented in the MS Office-like UI ("Tell me what you want to do"). The former adapt to new mechanics, the latter complain about bugs, most of them happen to be in the UI.

    Those two approaches are not compatible, so no discussion between those two makes sense.
     
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  22. Desiderius Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard Patron

    Desiderius
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    Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    The approaches aren't but the players are. Just a matter of converting the latter to the former (with tutorial help). Those who still want the latter can play Candy Crush.
     
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  23. Xamenos Magister Patron

    Xamenos
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2020
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Some people are beyond hope. Some people can, and have, been helped to enjoy the game. It is usually not hard to tell them apart after a while.
     
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  24. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    this game needs falling mechanics for paladins and such

    imagine being a cleric of pharasma going full lich and still getting divine spells

    disgosteen
     
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  25. Testownia Guest

    Testownia
    Here's how a Good Aeon deals with Aru.

    Show Spoiler
    "Key": "74263f0d-1e4f-4480-95ac-4ef368b6df87",
    "Value": "Transformation complete. The demon is no longer a demon. Forgiven by the goddess, the former succubus Arushalai is cleansed of past sins. Her criminal aura dissipates."

    "Key": "62713571-376a-4484-a9bb-e6e4d2543ed6",
    "Value": "So, Desna has forgiven my sins? I... I am not worthy of such happiness ." Arushalai quickly wipes away a tear running down her cheek. "And yet I know that I have just entered the road of redemption, and this road will be long a life."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2021
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