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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Owlcat's next Pathfinder RPG - now in ALPHA STAGE 2

Discussion in 'Owlcat Games' started by purpleblob, Nov 27, 2019.

  1. purpleblob Savant

    purpleblob
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    Pretty surprised Regill wasn't in the most popular list. He's definitely my most favourite.

    Not surprising though most of romance options are post popular.
     
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  2. Lacrymas Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I'd have preferred Graybor stay expensive, but get a better build than a mercenary can. That might make him a no-brained in every party, though. Also, no waifus please, let them be as monstrous as possible.
     
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  3. Yosharian Magister

    Yosharian
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    Story NPCs SHOULD be no-brainers, mechanically.
     
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  4. LannTheStupid Товарищ Patron

    LannTheStupid
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    Could you please delineate?
     
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  5. Lawntoilet Cipher

    Lawntoilet
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    He had 2 completely wasted feats (Finesse feats, but his Str is higher than his Dex). Slayer is a good class so he was still usable but worse than a Slayer merc could be (and way pricier).
    He also doesn't have a lot of story in the Alpha.
     
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  6. Yosharian Magister

    Yosharian
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    Dear god...

    I hope this isn't indicative of Owlcat's intentions with story NPCs, I had just about enough of their shitty builds in Kingmaker. Just give us full control of NPC builds already for fuck's sake.
     
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  7. Efe Liturgist

    Efe
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    its enough if they dont pick very specifiic feats/stats that force your hand to a single build.
    imho companions should have better total stats but not necessarily better than a merc built with a single purpose.

    val has unnecessary charisma and con that let many here enjoy her as kineticist and sorceror.
     
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  8. InD_ImaginE Arcane Patron

    InD_ImaginE
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I mean besides not being hyper-optimized, KM companion was fine.

    And the companion usually has higher point buy to offset their not so optimized Ability Scores.

    In WoR the PC with 25 point buy is actually the lowest out of all the companions.
     
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  9. LannTheStupid Товарищ Patron

    LannTheStupid
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    Well, apparently table toppers are not that great at explaining. OK.

    In my opinion, companions should never be better that specialized mercs and should be worse than them in general. On one hand, the companion's stats should reflect their personality and not optimization (Pallegina in the first Pillars is great example of that). On the other hand, playing with companion only party should be a challenge that increases difficulty by at least half a level - so the player will have to choose between interestring stories and characters and optimized efficient mutes. There can be exceptions, like Ekundayo and probably Jubilost, but those should be exceptions and not the rule.

    Honestly, the personality of Ekundayo, his life story and ideal stats for his class make him too close to a good mercenary. Which is the part of his story, and it is great storytelling through gameplay by the developers - but sometimes he becomes boring.
     
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  10. Yosharian Magister

    Yosharian
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    Yes cos it's totally her CHA and CON, which are easily altered in seconds using BoT, that are the issue, and not her starting feats and choice of starting class.

    Come on.

    Just allow full respec (aside from race, obviously) as an option in the difficulty menu, problem solved wow that was hard.
     
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  11. Trashos Arcane

    Trashos
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    Huh?
    Val's CON is super helpful for a simple tank. Not as helpful as not being killable in higher difficulties (like Jaethal is) or having Mirror Image, but it is the next best thing.
    Val's CHA is both relevant to her potential role as a Regent, and for intimidating with Dazzling Display.

    Higher difficulties change a lot of things and force players to be creative, but statwise Val is a pretty good tank for Normal/Challenging difficulties, and even for the difficult early game of Hard/Unfair.

    I generally agree that companions should not be perfect builds. You want a perfect build, you have to work for it.
     
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  12. LannTheStupid Товарищ Patron

    LannTheStupid
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    I'd say "you have to sacrifice for it". Changing Valerie to a STR sword saint with corresponding stats totally erases her personality, her quest, and her story. The same is true for other companions. I am strongly against full respec options in the game, and the respec itself should change the difficulty as in Kingmaker.

    Mods, on the other hand, are completely different matter. If a person knows the game to the point where he is not interested in companions then mod the game. Or if a player wants to rob himself from the game experience - it's on him as well.
     
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  13. NJClaw Ontopolover by choice Patron

    NJClaw
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I'm Ridin' with Biden I'm Ridin' with Biden
    We are talking about Owlcat.

    Something like this would probably break the entire game. It's not unreasonable to think that Linzi ABSOLUTELY needs Extra Performance in order for Power Attack to work as intended on other characters.
     
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  14. BarbequeMasta Learned

    BarbequeMasta
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    I love that both how Ekunduyo destroying everything and how Amiri gets demolished by most monsters after bragging on how she can solo them is fitting for both their stories and character.
     
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  15. Yosharian Magister

    Yosharian
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    But I wasn't asking for perfect builds.

    Companions just need something unique to elevate them above standard mercs. For example a ranger could have a unique pet, or a Paladin could have a unique spell, or something like that.

    Jaethal is a perfect example of how to build a unique character, too bad she's not a CHA-based spellcaster though.

    What I am asking for is competently-chosen feats, and at least above average subclass choices. Finesse feats on a STR character? Come on.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
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  16. LannTheStupid Товарищ Patron

    LannTheStupid
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    I think Pallegina's might and her struggle with the Paladin training gives more to her character than the fact she's a unique godlike with (potentially) cloaka.

    But jedem das Seine, sure.
     
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  17. Trashos Arcane

    Trashos
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    This I like, and I miss no opportunity to recommend it left and right. I am mostly thinking about abilities that shed light on the companion's personality, and maybe even provide with some QoL. I am always thinking of Mazzy from BG2 as an example, who is a fighter with Lay on Hands and Invoke Courage.

    That does sound weird, I agree. I do not know whether they have a specific weapon in mind for that companion, however. (maybe strong enough for the armor, and finesse for the weapon? I do not know, I have not seen the companion or what options there are.)
     
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  18. Lawntoilet Cipher

    Lawntoilet
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    I tend to agree that story companions don't have to be perfectly optimized - Val having high Cha based on her backstory is fine, for example - but Greybor having Finesse feats isn't like the companions in KM being less-than-optimized. It's just retarded, it has to be an oversight by Owlcat. There is literally no reason, irrespective of what weapons he uses (he comes set up to dual-wield axes, as it happens), for him to have any Finesse feats when he has 16 Dex and 18 Str.
     
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  19. Xamenos Augur Patron

    Xamenos
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Yeah, KM companions were perfectly fine, if you knew what you were doing with their builds. Even on higher difficulties. I don't understand why Owlcat would fuck up this way, or why they don't change it after (I assume) getting so much feedback about his build in the alpha forums.
     
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  20. sorinmask Just like Yves, I chase tales. Patron

    sorinmask
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    Valerie can be turned into a Fey Speaker for Mirror Image.
     
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  21. smaug Dumbfuck! Patron Dumbfuck Shitposter

    smaug
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    Insert Title Here
    Having wacky, strangely built story companions is apart of this specific RPG genre is it not? This was an appealing feature of Kingmaker if I understood correctly.

    Why the fuck would they allow you to optimize and start them from scratch?

    Yosharian
     
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  22. Efe Liturgist

    Efe
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    Its the low hanging fruit. they want enough people to complain about it so they can reap "listened to community feedback" points in greater amounts with the change
     
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  23. smaug Dumbfuck! Patron Dumbfuck Shitposter

    smaug
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    Is the female orc a companion?
     
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  24. S0rcererV1ct0r Cipher

    S0rcererV1ct0r
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    I disagree. They could have included at least a druid and PURE wizard(Octavia has rogue level and is specialized).

    But a Succubus companion on WoTR will be amazing.

    The beta will be available on GoG/Steam?
     
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  25. Xamenos Augur Patron

    Xamenos
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    This is completely unrelated to what we were talking about, which was companion builds and power level.
     
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