Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,232
Location
Ingrija
You're not wrong (as I pointed out, Arus portrait is bad, and her in game model is worse), but I am slightly surprised mr "there is only me and my computer, and neither of us cares" is joining the discussion on player/character separation :M

Oh, that is what you were discussing. I thought it's about wokecat promoting uglies as pinnacles of feminine beauty all over again :smug:

My point still stands, though. You wanna present the hottiest most prettiest female character evah in your game? Delete your Plain Jane artwork and hire a top shelf pornstar to model as one.
 

Daidre

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
1,975
Location
Samara
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
in the same way that the worldwound being guaranteed to become solved cheapens the main story
I do not think it is always the case, Afaik:
careful, spoilers for several Mythic paths
Swarm never closes Worldwound and just sits around it being menace until it kills him.
Trickster opens the second hole into the upper planes and just enjoys the show.
Demon becomes a Demon Lord with a Worldwound working as a portal into his own Abyssal Domain and starts even bigger war.
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
You do realise you are playing an Owlcat game right? Like, is any of this a surprise to you?

Most of this shit was contained within romance paths in Kingmaker. But Wrath was so incessantly barraging me with Arushalae's "Pale beautiful face", "Shining ruby eyes filled with tears", "delicate shaking fingers" and "tender shaking lips" each time I took her into the group, that my only desire after one full run with her as a constant party member was to drown constantly crying shaking bitch in some latrine.

I guess I am not a target audience.

You forgot "shy smile". Which she does in every second dialogue.
 

Humbaba

Arcane
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
2,940
Location
SADAT HQ
Yes but let us go back to talking about how cool my build is.

Bloodrager primalist is completely busted. He has it all: high bab, high hp, high dmg, high crit chance, high AC you name it. Once I get lethal accuracy I can crank up my crit modifier to x4. And supersonic speed just made him worse. Just slapped the druid lich at wintersun in like 30 seconds. Fight was over so quick I had to check the combat log to even find out what happened. Not even the horrors of Blackwater can stop this guy. Beat the lava ring fight first try, and I forgot guarded hearth too.

I am also glad to report that Early Sunset actually has stopped talking sense and now he is just a big naysayer who will not even let mimics join because they scare his bitch ass. Devil path is cancelled.
 

Sharpedge

Prophet
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,061
My problem with Ember has to do with verisimilitude. On multiple levels. For the first level, there is the juxtaposition between Ember's conversions and Arueshalae (who I also have problems with, but for different reasons). Arueshalae took the intervention of a god to redeem and her redemption is a slow, difficult process. Ember's "redemptions" (when you follow that part of her quest) are by comparison much swifter and are not depicted as being anywhere near as personally daunting. Even if you are to account for the 6 month time wait between when you leave the Nocticula's city to go fight Hepzamirah and when you spoke to the citizens of the abyss, a redemption that swift with no further encouragement from Ember is, in my mind, immersion ruining. Added to that, demons are supposed to be a literal embodiment of evil. A demon choosing to change their nature should be an incredibly rare occurrence. Whilst true, relative to the total number of existing demons, the number redeemed is still "low," all of this redemption happening in such a short period of time does seem to be a bit implausible. Her redeeming Nocticula takes the breaking of immersion even further. In my opinion, a better outcome for Ember's quest, with the perspective of trying to maintain some degree of realism, would be for her to try to redeem them and ultimately fail, regardless of whether you encourage her or belittle her. The difference, between the two outcomes should come from personal character development for Ember, not from demons magically being redeemed. The evil outcome can remain as is, the good outcome however, should have you encourage her to keep trying, where she resolves to continue on with her hope in spite of her failures. Having her "learn" to persevere through failure would, in my opinion, be a much better quest outcome.
You just assume that every demon converted by Ember is at the stage of Arushalae post-redemption, when you could more reasonably assume that they are at the stage of Arushalae when you first find her. Don't forget at that point in time, Aru's been in the redemption arc for in-universe years. Who's to say that every Emberite does not also have years of social work ahead of them?
My point is that demons are supposed to be the literal embodiment of evil. They are akin to a natural disaster. A demon starting to seek redemption is as likely as a tropical cyclone deciding to help undo the damage it has done to a city it has gone through. Whilst I can see direct divine intervention (Arueshalae+Desna) leading to change, I find it highly implausible that Ember would be capable of it. Yes, even with her Empyreal Lord behind her.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,998
My problem with Ember has to do with verisimilitude. On multiple levels. For the first level, there is the juxtaposition between Ember's conversions and Arueshalae (who I also have problems with, but for different reasons). Arueshalae took the intervention of a god to redeem and her redemption is a slow, difficult process. Ember's "redemptions" (when you follow that part of her quest) are by comparison much swifter and are not depicted as being anywhere near as personally daunting. Even if you are to account for the 6 month time wait between when you leave the Nocticula's city to go fight Hepzamirah and when you spoke to the citizens of the abyss, a redemption that swift with no further encouragement from Ember is, in my mind, immersion ruining. Added to that, demons are supposed to be a literal embodiment of evil. A demon choosing to change their nature should be an incredibly rare occurrence. Whilst true, relative to the total number of existing demons, the number redeemed is still "low," all of this redemption happening in such a short period of time does seem to be a bit implausible. Her redeeming Nocticula takes the breaking of immersion even further. In my opinion, a better outcome for Ember's quest, with the perspective of trying to maintain some degree of realism, would be for her to try to redeem them and ultimately fail, regardless of whether you encourage her or belittle her. The difference, between the two outcomes should come from personal character development for Ember, not from demons magically being redeemed. The evil outcome can remain as is, the good outcome however, should have you encourage her to keep trying, where she resolves to continue on with her hope in spite of her failures. Having her "learn" to persevere through failure would, in my opinion, be a much better quest outcome.
You just assume that every demon converted by Ember is at the stage of Arushalae post-redemption, when you could more reasonably assume that they are at the stage of Arushalae when you first find her. Don't forget at that point in time, Aru's been in the redemption arc for in-universe years. Who's to say that every Emberite does not also have years of social work ahead of them?
My point is that demons are supposed to be the literal embodiment of evil. They are akin to a natural disaster. A demon starting to seek redemption is as likely as a tropical cyclone deciding to help undo the damage it has done to a city it has gone through. Whilst I can see direct divine intervention (Arueshalae+Desna) leading to change, I find it highly implausible that Ember would be capable of it. Yes, even with her Empyreal Lord behind her.
So are Angels but fallen ones are even part of our RL religion...
 

Nikanuur

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Messages
1,520
Location
Ngranek
My point is that demons are supposed to be the literal embodiment of evil. They are akin to a natural disaster. A demon starting to seek redemption is as likely as a tropical cyclone deciding to help undo the damage it has done to a city it has gone through. Whilst I can see direct divine intervention (Arueshalae+Desna) leading to change, I find it highly implausible that Ember would be capable of it. Yes, even with her Empyreal Lord behind her.

First and foremost, they are consciouss beings. Any consciouss being learns soon enough the meaning of pain, fulfilled desire/need, that everybody is the same in this, and the basic morality that lies therein. How does the consciouss being choose to approach the matter is another thing.
 
Last edited:

Daidre

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
1,975
Location
Samara
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
First and foremost, they are consciouss beings. Any consciouss being learns soon enough the meaning of pain, fulfilled desire/need, that everybody is the same in this and the basic morality that lies therein. How such the consciouss being chooses to approach the matter is another thing.

We are told many, many times over the course of the game that demons, especially lower ones, are slaves of their own nature.

We can even see how Arushelae, after abandoning her redemption quest and loosing Desna's blessing does instant 180 personality turn and goes back to being unrepentant murderer. She still remembers perfectly well everything she learned and discovered and all relationships she built with other party members while in 'good' mode but she does not care a bit. It is not how mortals work. Their may become more selfless/selfish over the course of their live, get disappointed in their ideals or choose to pursue a different one, but they can't turn into completely different person with one conscious decision.
 
Last edited:

Efe

Erudite
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
2,597
she is absent through majority of chapter 4 (depending on when you do her quest) while shes doing that u turn
 

Daidre

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
1,975
Location
Samara
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
she is absent through majority of chapter 4 (depending on when you do her quest) while shes doing that u turn
Yes, she says that over the course of chapter 4 timeskip she made her own band of demons and led them to material plane to have some fun. Imho, a bit too much for a nice girl with a crisis of faith.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,171
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Perhaps good I made her quest yesterday just before going to Colphyr then. Though she wasn't exactly a regular party member for me anyway.

Sad that Bound of Possibility cloak (angel version) seems bugged. It was working before and was awesome, but now it appears broken (likely after I picked Everlasting Flame Heavenly Sword upgrade).

Love the dagger pair from Greybor's Assassin Guild quest. Wolfjit is even more of a murder machine with them. Sure glad I checked online and didn't miss them... like I probably would have otherwise.

C71B8917C838401CCF58E95DC1A1BECD399F7811


Got to level 18 yesterday, picked Loremaster and finally decided to pick Improved Improved Improved Critical Improved as Secret. In the end X5 crits were too tempting. Got me to level 8 cleric/angel spells as well.
 
Last edited:

Nikanuur

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Messages
1,520
Location
Ngranek
We are told many, many times over the course of the game that demons, especially lower ones, are slaves of their own nature.

I believe the possibility to expand or change the "inner programming" is inherent to any consciouss being. Developing a new one as well. But I must admit, I've been reading the same thing you've mentioned throughout the game, so idk what's the real deal here. I've only an opinion, and you might know better, ok.

We can even see how Arushelae, after abandoning her redemption quest and loosing Desna's blessing does instant 180 personality turn and goes back to being unrepentant murderer. She still remembers perfectly well everything she learned and discovered and all relationships she built with other party members while in 'good' mode but she does not care a bit. It is not how mortals work. Their may become more selfless/selfish over the course of their live, get disappointed in their ideals or choose to pursue a different one, but they can't turn into completely different person with one conscious decision.

It's a sad truth that a "nice" reaction generally doesn't do that. A "bad" reaction such as hate, anger etc. can. It can send the whole mind crumbling. ...it's about the pinnacle of the pyramid of frustration, unfulfilled needs, suppressed anger, misplaced hate etc. that nobody sees at the moment.
 
Last edited:

Humbaba

Arcane
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
2,940
Location
SADAT HQ
My point is that demons are supposed to be the literal embodiment of evil. They are akin to a natural disaster. A demon starting to seek redemption is as likely as a tropical cyclone deciding to help undo the damage it has done to a city it has gone through. Whilst I can see direct divine intervention (Arueshalae+Desna) leading to change, I find it highly implausible that Ember would be capable of it. Yes, even with her Empyreal Lord behind her.

Sure but that's more of a setting issue. Quite apparently demons in Pathfinder have some capability to develop self-awareness and change and that's just how it is. Whether or not it would make sense for them to have that capability in the first place is another question you would have to ask Paizo.
 

Humbaba

Arcane
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
2,940
Location
SADAT HQ
It's just trial and error domino. The sacred lands puzzle is cancer too. Hope owlcat's gonna implement some real puzzles next time.
 

Outmind

Augur
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
211
Quick question - is it possible to have mounted characters move at the same speed as on foot ones when out of combat? I like keeping Seelah on her horse (Buttercup), but she gallops off so fast that it's annoying to keep reigning her in in fear of triggering ambushes. Both of them walk at a normal speed when she's dismounted.
 

Humbaba

Arcane
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
2,940
Location
SADAT HQ
Pretty cool how Azata changes the midnight fane dungeon. Good to see chaotics getting shit done.

And boy do they get shit done. Aivu's surprise guerilla strike results in half the dungeon getting stomped by the free syrian army free crusaders, eliminating almost every otherwise mandatory encounter. Maybe we should put her in charge. Minagho doesn't get away either but I chose to spare her and sic her on her former bosses because it felt fitting to the Azata spirit. Let's hope there's gonna be no backstabbing.

But christ Galfrey is a such a cunt. Didn't tell her a word about the lexicon, so that dumbass can go die in Iz.
 

Humbaba

Arcane
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
2,940
Location
SADAT HQ
Quick question - is it possible to have mounted characters move at the same speed as on foot ones when out of combat? I like keeping Seelah on her horse (Buttercup), but she gallops off so fast that it's annoying to keep reigning her in in fear of triggering ambushes. Both of them walk at a normal speed when she's dismounted.
Just set the game to autopause whenever you find new mobs to avoid triggering encounters with her.
 

Sharpedge

Prophet
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
1,061
It's just trial and error domino.
It isn't, there are clues to get you started, for example when you start the puzzle you usually put in some symbols on the edge of the grid. Those symbols tell you there must be "x number of symbol y" within that row/column. The presentation of the puzzle however is awful and makes it much less enjoyable than it would be if it was within a UI which was clearly designed for it.
The sacred lands puzzle is cancer too. Hope owlcat's gonna implement some real puzzles next time.
The Sacred Lands puzzle is the 1 puzzle that I actually enjoyed because the UI of the game does not get in the way of solving the puzzle. Its a fairly easy and simple puzzle which can be solved with some basic logic and doesn't take longer than like 2 minutes to complete it. Maybe 5 if its your first time doing it and you are unsure if you want all of the platforms up or all of the platforms down.
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
Pretty cool how Azata changes the midnight fane dungeon. Good to see chaotics getting shit done.

And boy do they get shit done. Aivu's surprise guerilla strike results in half the dungeon getting stomped by the free syrian army free crusaders, eliminating almost every otherwise mandatory encounter. Maybe we should put her in charge. Minagho doesn't get away either but I chose to spare her and sic her on her former bosses because it felt fitting to the Azata spirit. Let's hope there's gonna be no backstabbing.

But christ Galfrey is a such a cunt. Didn't tell her a word about the lexicon, so that dumbass can go die in Iz.

What exactly changes with Azata in this dungeon?
 

Efe

Erudite
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
2,597
valhalflings raid it before you, like in a few other places like molten core (iirc)
 

Humbaba

Arcane
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
2,940
Location
SADAT HQ
It's just trial and error domino.
It isn't, there are clues to get you started, for example when you start the puzzle you usually put in some symbols on the edge of the grid. Those symbols tell you there must be "x number of symbol y" within that row/column. The presentation of the puzzle however is awful and makes it much less enjoyable than it would be if it was within a UI which was clearly designed for it.
The sacred lands puzzle is cancer too. Hope owlcat's gonna implement some real puzzles next time.
The Sacred Lands puzzle is the 1 puzzle that I actually enjoyed because the UI of the game does not get in the way of solving the puzzle. Its a fairly easy and simple puzzle which can be solved with some basic logic and doesn't take longer than like 2 minutes to complete it. Maybe 5 if its your first time doing it and you are unsure if you want all of the platforms up or all of the platforms down.

Yeah there's hints, but whether or not you put the right piece in the right spot is pure guesswork. And the UI gets extremely in the way in sacred lands because those mobile game hand buttons keep covering up the colors. The most cancerous thing is having no idea whether the blocks need to be all the way up or down, if you guessed correctly then congratulations but that's all it is, a guess. Compare these horrible "puzzles" to just a single one from Grimrock 2 for example and you'll see the difference between an actual puzzle and a boring guessing game.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom