KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Alienman]

Xenonauts is compared to the OG X-com, and PP would be too if it actually went for that design. It just become very clear to me that the original fans are nothing more than just extra money to get the kickstarter going. PP will probably be a fun game, but a true X-com game designed by the "master" is dead as disco.

 

[luinthoron]

Xenonauts also somehow manages to look worse than the original X-Com... Not something any company would want to hear about their new game, especially if it has to compete with Firaxis' take on the franchise. I would say modern graphics for a modern spiritual sequel are an obvious upgrade to make. There's no reason to be stuck in nostalgia for something as superficial as the looks, what matters is how the actual mechanics beneath it work.

 

[Alienman]

I'm not talking about the visuals. I mean gameplay and mechanics, like time-units and so on.

 

[ArchAngel]

I'm not talking about the visuals. I mean gameplay and mechanics, like time-units and so on.

Time units are just one way to do turn based. D&D had successful turn based for 35+ years without any timeunits. PP does not need them as well.

 

[UnstableVoltage]

I'm not talking about the visuals. I mean gameplay and mechanics, like time-units and so on.

Time units are just one way to do turn based. D&D had successful turn based for 35+ years without any timeunits. PP does not need them as well.

Phoenix Point actually has Time Units.

 

[PanteraNera]

I'm not talking about the visuals. I mean gameplay and mechanics, like time-units and so on.

Time units are just one way to do turn based. D&D had successful turn based for 35+ years without any timeunits. PP does not need them as well.

Phoenix Point actually has Time Units.

Can you elaborate that further?
How equals moving step by step TU's?
Yes it is nice that different weapons give you different movement ranges. But again how is that TU's?
So far it seems to me that in PP the "TU's" are only used for movement, while in X-Com for every action.
Fact is, it does not use the TU-system of X-Com, or would you call that a false assumption.
I say you have a better system than XCOM 2 by now, but well its probably subject to change as anything else in the game as "in development".
Genuinely looking forward to your answer to settle the matter for good.

 

[HansDampf]

This 2A-TU-hybrid business has been confusing, even for hardcore followers, from day one. Is there any action a soldier could perform in X-COM that can't be done in PP just as a result of this hybrid system? We already know that soldiers can't hunker down, but it could theoretically be implemented. The UI would have to update the movement range, however. What about inventory management? Will switching weapons cost TU? This has probably been asked a lot already, but as I said, it's confusing.

 

[PanteraNera]

​

So the following chat on discord has made UnstableVoltage feel confident to make some statements that confirm some of my assumptions. Also I feel flattered to be called an war correspondent, cheers Elfozord! In tribute to that I opened this "war news" with a fitting header. As the initial chat adds no new information regarding Phoenix Point I put it in spoilers.

main war correspondent

Spoiler

Nothing against you personally UnstableVoltage as there is enough codexers itt that do not get it as well, but how can one not understand that I, Grotesque , Shog-goth , Alienman , Israfael (among others) are not talking about a fucking carbon-copy. Honestly I really do not get it, it is like their is either BLACK or WHITE. But god behold nothing inbetween. PP seems to try to get something inbetween, and all that the members of this forum that are vocal about it are saying is: in it current state it looks like it is way more XCOM than X-Com. Seriously again, how is that difficult to comprehend?

And to just stress it again you just said "hybrid" and "best of both" that can mean anything. People assumed that as Julian Gollop is doing this game and not Jake Solomon, that it will have the possibilities and simulation-approach X-Com had. They assumed wrong. End of story. Instead of trying to solve the issue with people that gave you money because of wrong assumptions they made (I could go further because the initial pitch was worded in that way that one could assume this) you are politely stating that these idiots want a carbon-copy of X-Com.

Spoiler

Thanks for the confirmation because someone brought it up here that maybe that New Jericho armor-style is endgame and that the earlier New Jericho stuff could look more like the original concept. I doubt it but wanted to double-check that with you.
As everything changes with PP development so quickly I am not sure if that had been changed as well, but there was talks that equipment is not reproduce-able only fixable, WW3 was between 2032 and 2040 (it has not been official confirmed when it happend by Allen Stoud) game starts at 2047, the initial concept would not have been unbelievable. And others itt (that are fine with everything else!) stated that it is a shame that you changed the looks from something unique, distinct looking, to something that looks an awful lot like XCOM.

Spoiler

Dude seriously, stop there. Again all that defensiveness going on. You are a Community Manager on the official Discord. You said you hold back concept because people are so negative. Your job is to sell the game. If you hold back on information and concept you are not doing what you need to, get people excited. And than you state all of that in publicly in front of the customers. Fortunately most of these guys seem to be your friends fanboys.

Second paragraph, like I said before, than pretty please, share information as such. At least on the codex were people care. And yeah by now we all know "everything is subject to change". But again, how is it hard to not understand that people are "worried" and "do not know" what the end-product will be? Seriously how? Sure if you have unlimited trust in Julian Gollop (please do us all a favor, google famous game-designer making crowdfunded games and how that turned out).

Spoiler

This amuses me, first quote Julian Gollops vision (legendary game designer) second quote but we listen and care (keep in mind from the same guy that personally dislikes all that "armchair-game-designers). So you redid New Jericho because so many people were vocal about that they didn't liked the initial look and even changed the lore? Wow. *sarcasm*

I don't even know what you mean with armchair-game-designer and in the context you used it (this little rant .... uhm personal talk) it looks like everyone who criticizes the game is an "armchair-game-designer". And god behold, how can people assume that they will get something similar to what they were shown when they gave their money, how ignorant. Also citation needed for "said stuff was placeholder" I checked the Fig page quiet often and didn't find it.

Spoiler

Lol, just lol, totally out of context. I always said that I am worried about AAA graphics because of the limited budget, I said it again and again and again.

Honestly what I said earlier still holds true, I think this game will be better than XCOM 2, I really tried to be more friendly towards these guys, but wow, just wow, after that I think it is pretty hard work for me to be friendly.

For whomever may want to read it, here some of the user-comments on the official Phoenix Point discord, regarding the codex:

Spoiler

 

[UnstableVoltage]

I'm not talking about the visuals. I mean gameplay and mechanics, like time-units and so on.

Time units are just one way to do turn based. D&D had successful turn based for 35+ years without any timeunits. PP does not need them as well.

Phoenix Point actually has Time Units.

Can you elaborate that further?
How equals moving step by step TU's?
Yes it is nice that different weapons give you different movement ranges. But again how is that TU's?
So far it seems to me that in PP the "TU's" are only used for movement, while in X-Com for every action.
Fact is, it does not use the TU-system of X-Com, or would you call that a false assumption.
I say you have a better system than XCOM 2 by now, but well its probably subject to change as anything else in the game as "in development".
Genuinely looking forward to your answer to settle the matter for good.

Movement uses TUs. Using a weapon/item uses TUs (how many depends on the weapon) - this is why swapping the weapon changes the distance of the blue box (show you how far you can move and still fire). We're working on some small changes to the UI to make time units used/remaining more apparent. After you fire, if you have any TUs left, you can use them to move. As I said previously, there is internal testing for multiple shots per turn (each using X amount of TUs). Picking up items from the ground, dropping them, moving items from your backpack the quick-select (hot-wheel) all use TUs (only switching between the 3 items in the hot-wheel costs nothing).

 

[Mustawd]

Nothing against you personally @UnstableVoltage as there is enough codexers itt that do not get it as well, but how can one not understand that I, @Grotesque , @Shog-goth , @Alienman , @Israfael are not talking about a fucking carbon-copy. Honestly I really do not get it, it is like their is either BLACK or WHITE. But god behold nothing inbetween. PP seems to try to get something inbetween, and all that the members of this forum that are vocal about it are saying is: in it current state it looks like it is way more XCOM than X-Com. Seriously again, how is that difficult to comprehend?

Honestly, based on your posts I came to the same conclusion as UnstableVoltage.

That is a disappointment.


I think everything else UnstableVoltage mentioned is pretty fair PanteraNera .


These guys are kinda retarded tho...

Spoiler

Obviously that Trex guy has very little reading comprehension skills, as the big complaint wasn't the radial menu per se, but the response given about making compromises to the PC UI in favor of the controller. That, to me, was the big nonstarter, and felt like the dev team just does not get who its core audience is or why that's a bad idea.

 

[Mustawd]

Movement uses TUs. Using a weapon/item uses TUs (how many depends on the weapon) - this is why swapping the weapon changes the distance of the blue box (show you how far you can move and still fire). We're working on some small changes to the UI to make time units used/remaining more apparent. After you fire, if you have any TUs left, you can use them to move. As I said previously, there is internal testing for multiple shots per turn (each using X amount of TUs). Picking up items from the ground, dropping them, moving items from your backpack the quick-select (hot-wheel) all use TUs (only switching between the 3 items in the hot-wheel costs nothing).

Thanks for the explanation. And great news to hear about other things you can do like picking up items from the ground. Any idea if picking up human faction weapons and using them will be an option?

 

[PanteraNera]

Movement uses TUs. Using a weapon/item uses TUs (how many depends on the weapon) - this is why swapping the weapon changes the distance of the blue box (show you how far you can move and still fire). We're working on some small changes to the UI to make time units used/remaining more apparent. After you fire, if you have any TUs left, you can use them to move. As I said previously, there is internal testing for multiple shots per turn (each using X amount of TUs). Picking up items from the ground, dropping them, moving items from your backpack the quick-select (hot-wheel) all use TUs (only switching between the 3 items in the hot-wheel costs nothing).

That sounds fantastic, sounds almost like there is no 2AP in it anymore? Late 1st of April?
I know and understand, that this might change and is not final. But damn, that sounds awesome.

 

[PanteraNera]

Well if it is true that means we don't need to fear they will run out of funds and not be able to finish the game. It might even turn out to be closer to Xcom level of production (some VO, more cinematics for main story parts).

One can only dream but wouldn't that sweet if they would have, let's day 3 million dollar. All the possibilities that would open up .
One has to keep in mind thought, that these are pre-orders so they shouldn't spend all that money on PP, probably.

Finally :D

Lol, I have stated that earlier in the post you rated TL: DR

In truth while I expected that from the start my hope is that Jullian dares and manages to put in as many old school mechanics as he is allowed. I supported the Fig campaign hoping I would be right about that.
I mean Fig already promised many old school mechanics delivered in nuXcom looks, I just hoped they would stick with it.. but that console level UI from last public showing is biggest disappointment for me so far.

 

[Alienman]

Vilifying Codex is a tradition by now. God forbid people criticize or speak their mind, I mean I wouldn't be here if I didn't care about the game, but oh well.

 

[PanteraNera]

Vilifying Codex is a tradition by now. God forbid people criticize or speak their mind, I mean I wouldn't be here if I didn't care about the game, but oh well.

That is the thing, in which other forum can you honestly criticizes a game? In the official game-forum

I was surprised as well that people didn't get itt that I am actually intensely interested in the game, on the borderline to being a fanboy. I think it is funny that initially it started with me just wanting to know more (because lack of dev updates) and that made me a "war correspondent". But yeah nobody likes criticism, sadly. I had to work really hard on my personality to appreciated criticism that was direct against me or my work/doing. So I know how it feels if you just can not take it and use it to get better (in what ever you are doing).

 

[Viata]

(because lack of dev updates)

It's funny, I know more about the game because of your posts and questions than because of someone doing his job.

 

[Shog-goth]

What an embarassing interview: "XCOM creator Julian Gollop", "XCOM-alike Phoenix Point", "Humble Bundle (?)", "Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (??)", "XCOM", "Sea of Thieves (???)", "Mario + Rabbids (WTF?!?)", "Facebook", "XCOM", "target", "Facebook", "pre-orders", "graphics", "XCOM", "analytics", "Facebook", "Switch", "graphics", "Facebook", "XCOM", "franchise", "console", "touch interface", "XCOM", "Babylon 5", "console", "Switch".

Oh, I forgot: "did I mentioned XCOM?". And "console?".

 

[UnstableVoltage]

Movement uses TUs. Using a weapon/item uses TUs (how many depends on the weapon) - this is why swapping the weapon changes the distance of the blue box (show you how far you can move and still fire). We're working on some small changes to the UI to make time units used/remaining more apparent. After you fire, if you have any TUs left, you can use them to move. As I said previously, there is internal testing for multiple shots per turn (each using X amount of TUs). Picking up items from the ground, dropping them, moving items from your backpack the quick-select (hot-wheel) all use TUs (only switching between the 3 items in the hot-wheel costs nothing).

That sounds fantastic, sounds almost like there is no 2AP in it anymore? Late 1st of April?
I know and understand, that this might change and is not final. But damn, that sounds awesome.

The system has been working this way since the PC Weekender demo (with the exception of the inventory system which wasn't in at that point). Of course, the thing that makes it seem like a 2AP system was the default "one shot per turn". I've been beating the "allow multiple shots" drum for a while - both as a community requested feature and as something I would like to see personally - as I feel that would be a fantastic mechanic to revisit. Hence, it's being tested.

I think what causes some confusion is the "movement" ranges on the UI - as at a quick glance you'd be forgiven for thinking they're just the same 1AP/2AP-Dash system from XCOM. We were using it simply to show how far you can safely move before not having enough TUs to use your currently equipped weapon. (We're also adding a "TU bar" as a visual representation of your TUs (the bar live updates as you hover over tiles/actions)).

The demo is getting a few small updates for EGX Rezzed next weekend, including these UI updates, and also the "free-aiming" system. Nothing of the aiming systems in the previous demo has been removed - you can still snap-aim as before. Now you also have to option to manually take control of the cross-hair and fine-tune your aim (or shoot at cover if you want). This shouldn't be confused with the Sniper ability which snaps to body parts and gives a massive aim bonus. There are also other UI changes to better indicate which skills come from your soldier and which ones are tied to your weapon/equipment. Better representation of Minimum/Maximum damage when aiming, multiple stacked bleed indicator, a better explanation of individual body parts including HP and armour when targeted. Hit chance indicator for return fire when aiming at enemies with that ability. A visual (not numeric) indicator that gives you a rough approximation of how likely a shot is at killing the target. Probably a few more things that I'm not remembering right now.

Edit: And of course the inventory system, complete with weapon reloading - and yes, the assault can pick up and fire the heavy's rocket launcher or machine gun. - this might not make the demo build, but will be in the backer build at the end of April.

 

[Shog-goth]

The system has been working this way since the PC Weekender demo (with the exception of the inventory system which wasn't in at that point). Of course, the thing that makes it seem like a 2AP system was the default "one shot per turn". I've been beating the "allow multiple shots" drum for a while - both as a community requested feature and as something I would like to see personally - as I feel that would be a fantastic mechanic to revisit. Hence, it's being tested.

This would be really great because is one of the most conflicting points.

 

[Shog-goth]

Any additional info on this robot snake?

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2010/11/robot-snake-is-one-enemy-not-to-be-trifled-with/

 

[PanteraNera]

(because lack of dev updates)

It's funny, I know more about the game because of your posts and questions than because of someone doing his job.

To be fair (and I try to be as often as I can) UnstableVoltage seems to do a terrific job on facebook answering all these questions (a lot of them seem to be NOPS4 and Q4 2018). And in the last interview it was stated that they belief that most of their success in pre-orders is due their facebook campaign. I am pretty sure that that eats up a lot of time, that for example he does not have for dev updates.

But I am glad that I can keep you (and others) informed.

UnstableVoltage
Thanks for the in detail answer, much appreciated!

 

[UnstableVoltage]

(because lack of dev updates)

It's funny, I know more about the game because of your posts and questions than because of someone doing his job.

To be fair (and I try to be as often as I can) UnstableVoltage seems to do a terrific job on facebook answering all these questions (a lot of them seem to be NOPS4 and Q4 2018). And in the last interview it was stated that they belief that most of their success in pre-orders is due their facebook campaign. I am pretty sure that that eats up a lot of time, that for example he does not have for dev updates.

But I am glad that I can keep you (and others) informed.

My job title as Community Manager is actually a bit of a misnomer. Not only do I do all of the social media stuff and the updates, I also attend every developer meeting via video conference to try and get as much info as possible (which isn't as bad for the developers themselves as they usually only attend the meetings for their teams) I attend them all. I also help with the marketing side of things, creating assets (like the most recent trailer). I pretty much deal with all of the incoming email to the public Snapshot addresses (including Chaos Reborn stuff). There are a huge number of emails (and FB messages each day) from people who want to upgrade, or who didn't receive their email or random requests from people wanting to volunteer to do localisation or be a QA tester (these emails alone eat up a lot of my time). I deal with the press, inviting them to events, answering their questions. Communication with streamers and YouTubers who want to get access to the game. I deal with any issues on the store - setting up promotions, dealing with some technical issues (currently working to allow Fig backers to be able to upgrade. I also do most of the arrangement for the shows (such as the upcoming EGX) - arranging our volunteers, accommodation, transport. Making sure we have a spot at the venue, the right hardware, the right software, art assets for the stand, flyers/business cards - reaching out to the press and arranging interviews - basically, I wrangle the whole thing. I'm also responsible for a lot of the physical assets which will be going out, such as the t-shirts, key-rings, art books. I have to oversee all of those getting produced and dispatched. And more stuff besides. On top of that (and I know not really related), I'm also a full-time carer for my disabled mother. So yeah, it can be pretty busy trying to get updates out. Though we really do want to increase the frequency - and this will happen once the Backer Build is out.

Just a day in the life of a "Community Manager" I guess :D

In getting the Demo and Backer Build ready of the last few months, the "build order" for development hasn't been the most optimal (you would normally build a rough skeleton of the whole game and then flesh it out) - the demo and backer build have caused us to be more focused on some specific elements, so we haven't been able to show as much overall progress as we would like to.

 

[Alienman]

I hope they pay you well for all that.

 

[Viata]

UnstableVoltage seems to do a terrific job on facebook answering

I see. That explains many things for me then. Sorry for what I have said, UnstableVoltage.

 

[Grotesque]

I'm also a full-time carer for my disabled mother

And here goes out my willingness to wipe the floor with him for bad mouthing us to his circle-jerking discord friends and basing his claims on cherry-picked and subtly distorted "facts".