KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Infinitron]

 

[Cross]

Using time units or even the hybrid 2AP system while copying nuXCOM's interface aesthetics, right down to the blue/orange motif, is going to do more harm than good. Get rid of it, it's just going to confuse players or even make them disappointed that it isn't like nuXCOM, an expectation they wouldn't have if the interface didn't remind them of nuXCOM constantly.

 

[Togukawa]

Huh. With the news that there's TUs under the hood for more than just movement and that multiple shots per turn are being tested, I'm actually getting hyped for this again.

 

[Shog-goth]

I must admit, my mind is still blown.

So we experienced a sort of perceptive "U turn": suddenly almost everything that felt wrong started instead to come together. How was it possible? I blame an ambiguous communication, because after all this time and so much insistence only yesterday we finally shed some light on the real TUs implementation (among other aspects). I really hope that, from now on, we can continue on this path of frank exchange of views and informations with UnstableVoltage. It seems that finally we're back on the right track.

 

[Grotesque]

Jesus... it doesn't take much for some people to hop on the hype train while inebriated on whishful thinking.

 

[Shog-goth]

Jesus... it doesn't take much for some people to hop on the hype train while inebriated on whishful thinking.

Well, no. I'm not suddenly become "Fabulously Optimistic", I'm still aware that a lot of things can go wrong but I'm glad to see finally a glimpse of hope. Let's see what will happen now.

 

[Shaewaroz]

I have zero interest in anything other than an XCOM game with time units. If you cannot choose to use your turn for multiple different tasks (more than 2) the game is not worth my time.

Just use the darn time units Julian! Nobody is going to buy this game on consoles anyway - stick to your core audience.

 

[ArchAngel]

I have zero interest in anything other than an XCOM game with time units. If you cannot choose to use your turn for multiple different tasks (more than 2) the game is not worth my time.

Just use the darn time units Julian! Nobody is going to buy this game on consoles anyway - stick to your core audience.

Even the current version lets you do more than 2 tasks. You can in fact do many tasks if you move one by one tile

 

[PanteraNera]

Jesus... it doesn't take much for some people to hop on the hype train while inebriated on whishful thinking.

Your statement is as true as claiming that anyone who says anything critic towards PP wants a carbon-copy of X-Com.

 

[Shaewaroz]

To be frank, I think Gollop is going the wrong direction by trying to imitate and improve on the formula of nuXCOM. Instead he should be trying to imitate and improve on OpenXCOM, which is by far the best XCOM we currently have.

Speaking of which, Kikoskia has just started a new Let's Play of OpenXCOM.

 

[Mustawd]

I think Gollop is going the wrong direction by trying to imitate and improve on the formula of nuXCOM.

I think given that the goal is commercial success, I have to disagree with that. I think if he wants to make the most sales he'll make PP something that is familiar to nuXCOM players but fresh enough to be its own thing.

Also, just to revisit X-com vs XCOM, I think ppl forget that Julian is a huge board game player. I get the sense that he doesn't have many sacred cows when it comes to making Phoenix Point. So if he feels XCOM does things a bit better than X-com did, then he won't hesitate to change things.

Finally, I don't think snapshot is getting enough credit for eschewing the pod system. I think that alone will make PP play so much better than the nuXCOM games. The pd system was just silly from the start. I don't get why Firaxis stayed with it. Maybe it has something to do with the engine or something. O rmaybe they didn't wanna change XCOM2 too drastically. Regardless, that system is garbage as fack.

 

[Shaewaroz]

Pandering to casuals has lead to us getting some great games in the past, huh?

I guess it all depends on what Gollop wants from PP - a commercial success or a genuinely brilliant game that could be a worthy successor to the game that made him famous in the first place. Genuinely brilliant games sometimes become commercial successes as well. On the other hand games pandering to casuals never become brilliant games, especially games that are supposed to be strategy/tactics games. They always have an advantage on PC and suffers from attempts to pander to consoletards.

 

[Grotesque]

Jesus... it doesn't take much for some people to hop on the hype train while inebriated on whishful thinking.

Your statement is as true as claiming that anyone who says anything critic towards PP wants a carbon-copy of X-Com.

Right now you are at the bargaining stage.
My advice is to skip directly to the last one.

 

[PanteraNera]

Jesus... it doesn't take much for some people to hop on the hype train while inebriated on whishful thinking.

Your statement is as true as claiming that anyone who says anything critic towards PP wants a carbon-copy of X-Com.

Right now you are at the bargaining stage.
My advice is to skip directly to the last one.

It was than when PanteraNera finally realized that Grotesque wanted a carbon copy of X-Com from the beginning.

Dear Grotesque I think we have grown a part, but we can still be friends.

Love, PanteraNera

 

[Grotesque]

I want Phoenix Point to be a carbon copy of X-COM the same way

• Jagged Alliance 2 was a carbon copy of Jagged Alliance
• Master of Orion 2 was a carbon copy of Master of Orion
• Baldur's Gate 2 was a carbon copy of Baldur's Gate
• Battlezone (1998) was a carbon copy of Battlezone (1980)
• Diablo 2 was a carbon copy of Diablo
• Freespace 2 was a carbon copy of Freespace
• Gothic 2 was a carbon copy of Gothic
• Half Life 2 was a carbon copy of Half Life
• Heroes of Might and Magic 3 was a carbon copy of Heroes 2
• Hexen 2 was a carbon copy of Hexen
• Lords of the Realm 2 was a carbon copy of Lords of the Realm
• Prince of Persia 2 was a carbon copy of Prince of Persia
• Total War Shogun 2 was a carbon copy of Shogun: Total War
• Star Control 2 was a carbon copy of Star Control
• System Shock 2 was a carbon copy of System Shock
• Supreme Commander was a carbon copy of Total Annihilation
• Mechwarrior 3 was a carbon copy of Mechwarrior 2
• Silent Hunter 3 was a carbon copy of Silent Hunter

"In the past, a carbon copy was the under-copy of a document created when carbon paper was placed between the original and the under-copy during the production of a document.[1] Nowadays "carbon copy" is often used metaphorically to refer simply to an exact copy. It is not to be confused with the carbon print family of photographic reproduction processes." - wikipedia.org

PS: and now you can go fuck yourself, dear friend.

 

[PanteraNera]

I want Phoenix Point to be a carbon copy of X-cCOM

Thanks that is all I needed to hear from you

*edit* and I thought I was fabulously optimistic. You know this not going to happen?

 

[luinthoron]

I want Phoenix Point to be a carbon copy of X-cCOM the same way

• Jagged Alliance 2 was a carbon copy of Jagged Alliance
• Master of Orion 2 was a carbon copy of Master of Orion
• Baldur's Gate 2 was a carbon copy of Baldur's Gate
• Battle Zone (1998) was a carbon copy of Battlezone (1980)
• Diablo 2 was a carbon copy of Diablo
• Freespace 2 was a carbon copy of Freespace
• Gothic 2 was a carbon copy of Gothic
• Half Life 2 was a carbon copy of Half Life
• Heroes of Might and Magic 3 was a carbon copy of Heroes 2
• Hexen 2 was a carbon copy of Hexen
• Lords of the Realm 2 was a carbon copy of Lords of the Realm
• Prince of Persia 2 was a carbon copy of Prince of Persia
• Total War Shogun 2 was a carbon copy of Shogun: Total War
• Star Control 2 was a carbon copy of Star Control
• System Shock 2 was a carbon copy of System Shock
• Supreme Commander was a carbon copy of Total Annihilation
• Mechwarrior 3 was a carbon copy of Mechwarrior 2
• Silent Hunter 3 was a carbon copy of Silent Hunter

Terror from the Deep is over there. *points*

 

[PanteraNera]

Terror from the Deep is over there. *points*

Well honestly compared to the other sequels he listed Terror from the Deep has not enough improvements over the original, to qualify. Same for OpenXcom.
PP will not be the game either, but it will be the closest thing.

My original opinion still stands btw PP will be far better than XCOM 2 but not as good as X-Com.

 

[Shog-goth]

To be precise the enhanced "carbon copy" of X-COM (a "diamond copy", then?) was Apocalypse. In this particular case we also have a distance of almost 25 years from the original, that in gaming is like a geological era, so expecting the (more or less) exact mechanics is really "Fabulously Optimistic". Let's try to get the best possibile compromise, because a compromise is inevitable.

 

[Galdred]

I want Phoenix Point to be a carbon copy of X-cCOM the same way

• Master of Orion 2 was a carbon copy of Master of Orion
• Lords of the Realm 2 was a carbon copy of Lords of the Realm
• Total War Shogun 2 was a carbon copy of Shogun: Total War

MOO2 added a ton of micromanagement to MOO. I much prefered the focus on Macro. Both were great games, though, but I wish Steve Barcia had gond another direction instead of trying to make Civ in Space.
TWS2 was bloated Shogun: Total War IMO. It had strategic turns that took too long for little interesting decisions.
Lords of the Realm 2 also added a ton of micro management to LOTR (how is shuffling worker very season supposed to be fun? LOTR 1 also had that, but you could go cows+milk and not bother about manual reallocation of workers every season between construction and agriculture...), and butchered the sieges, which were the coolest part.
LOTR2 also removed the morale system and the formations and replaced it with standard RTS controls.

My point is not that these were inferior to their predecessors, but that some elements were dumbed down in each of these too.

 

[Grotesque]

Terror from the Deep is over there. *points*

To get in line to wax the shaft, go there. *pinpoints*

 

[Grotesque]

My original opinion still stands btw PP will be far better than XCOM 2 but not as good as X-Com.

The bar was brought so low with xcom that Gollop even half-bakes all the pillars that made great the original x-com, he will still have a superior product.

 

[PanteraNera]

http://www.snapshotgames.com/

WE ARE NOW HIRING
Thanks to the phenomenal success of our crowdfunding campaign for Phoenix Point, Snapshot Games is now looking for job applicants in the following areas:

• Programmers
• 3D Environment Artists
• 3D Character Artists
• 3D Animator
• Technical Animator
• SFX/Lighting Artists
• GUI Artist
• Marketing Artist

Please check our jobs page for more details.

 

[PanteraNera]

I have asked UnstableVoltage some questions last night and here are the answers (I have edited it in removing spelling mistakes, changed the order of questions and cut a lot of my smaller questions out to keep it shorter)

Visuals and current state of development

PN: How much PV creatures are currently in a similar state in polish as the New Jericho soldiers, that have not been shown?
UV: What has been seen is certainly the most polished (but not necessarily finished). Other creatures are in various states of modelling/rigging/texturing/animation etc.

PN: Is my assumption true that the PP soldiers as seen in Fig are no more and that we will see the same changes as with New Jericho?
UV: The most up to date images I have seen of PP was the concept drawings that I shared somewhere (I've seen them re-shared on the Codex). I don't know if those original designs from the Fig will still be use (either as PP or something else, or if they will be PP at a different tech stage).

PN:

what can you tell me about this guy. New Jericho? Is this a "lower tier" New Jericho?
UV: It is a NJ model. I believe it is just a basic (tier 1 if you like) assault soldier.
PN: The Assault we have seen in the PC Gamer Weekender would be than "top tier"? Are there tiers inbetween? Or will it "just" be low and high tier?
UV: I honestly don't know the answer, other than the soldier models in the demo aren't the basic guys. There will be customisation too, so there will be variations on the look of armour even within the same tier too. I'm not 100% certain but I believe the factions will have some variations (though it won't be as extensive as player customisation)

PN: Has 3D work started on Synderion (I spelled it wrong), also Disciples of Anu we have seen the Mutog Rider are there more models in the work currently? Or will you finish NJ first?
UV: I'm not sure if 3D work has started on Synedrion (you were so close). There are all sorts of different models being worked on at the moment.
Sadly, being 1500 miles away, I can't just walk around the studio and look at what individual people are doing. We have 30 developers and most of those are in the art department. Most of what I get is from the weekly meetings. I get a sense of what is going on overall, but I generally don't get the details of what things individual people are working on.

PN: Somewhere you had said that the old New Jericho concept could still make it into the game, as like soldiers for a free haven. Any news about that?
UV: I think I said I hoped they could still make it into the game. But it is true, there will be Havens that aren't part of any of the factions - and it would be a shame for some of these concepts to go to waste. A small, isolated independent faction is more likely to have that "Mad Max" look


Backer Build One multi-shot and game mechanic related stuff

PN: Will the Backer Build One have multi-shot or be more like what was seen on the PC Gamer Weekender?
UV: It will have the full TU system, but I don't believe multiple shots will have made it in by that point (it would require some other things to be changed for balance (including enemy AI))
Julian's main concern with multiple shots is that standing still and doubling or even tripling your firepower every turn means that standing still becomes very powerful. We don't want to design a game where the optimal way to play is to just camp in the corner of the map (and I have to agree with him - it's a good point). So while a lot of people (including myself) would love to see multiple shots, there are still some downsides which need to be overcome for it to be an enjoyable experience.
The TUs have always been part of the build - even in the Fig prototype last year (although you couldn't move after firing back then). The "hybrid" system was always designed that firing (or performing certain other actions) would end your turn, but you could spend willpower to chain more actions together.

PN: with PP shown as in the PC Gamer Weekender I could shoot and than hide behind a corner, neglecting possible return-fire. It will take longer to kill enemies but I will not risk my own soldiers.
UV: Well you can stand behind a corner and step out to shoot anyway (as in, the animation will actually cause you to step out, take a shot and duck back in)
Obviously you can still be hit by Return Fire, but the UI actually tells you the enemy chance to hit you with Return Fire before you take the shot.
Well the enemy can still use overwatch or take a shot at the cover (we've implemented a free-aim system)

PN: the AI can use the free-aim system? Thought it would be players only?
UV: Well the "snap" aim system, like in XCOM only allows you to aim at an enemy. The free aim system allows you to aim at anything you want. Point the gun and pull the trigger.
At the moment, the AI aren't coded to use it as it has just been added. I don't know if they will or not.


About the recent success with pre-orders and options it might enable

PN: Is it save to assume that with average of 100k $ pre-orders monthly that you will have the option to delay the release without to much of a risk to run out of money?
UV: With the current rate of pre-orders (which is trending up), it would give us a bit of a buffer. And of course, we don't want to release a game that is unfinished/not ready - but at the same time we don't want Star Citizen levels of delays :D

PN: With the 100k $ monthly in mind, could we see more extensive VO after all, what about cut-scenes?
UV: We want to provide the best quality and most polished product that we can. We'd love full VO and we'd also love to support more languages (and a combination of the two becomes exponentially more expensive). I'm not sure if we ever planned on going down the route of cut-scenes (and if we did it would most likely be in-engine as opposed to pre-rendered). This is something that we do consider, but it is still most likely too early to say for sure. Certainly, if we have the funds spare, we will use them for polish.


About "commercial success"

UV: It was like when I said "we want to be commercially successful" which I now see getting thrown around (my own words by the way - not Julian's or anyone from the studio)
UV: We want to make a good game. Of course we do. But we're a company in business with 30+ employees. Of course we want it to be a commercial success - otherwise the studio closes and the staff are laid off. This shouldn't come as a surprise to people. What company doesn't want to make money? I doubt many developers say "we want to make a fantastic niche game but make no money"

 

[PanteraNera]

I must admit, my mind is still blown.

So we experienced a sort of perceptive "U turn": suddenly almost everything that felt wrong started instead to come together. How was it possible? I blame an ambiguous communication, because after all this time and so much insistence only yesterday we finally shed some light on the real TUs implementation (among other aspects). I really hope that, from now on, we can continue on this path of frank exchange of views and informations with UnstableVoltage. It seems that finally we're back on the right track.

Well, yes that pretty much sums it up.

A lot of butthurt and outcry of decline was generated with me drawing wrong conclusions. Still as UnstableVoltage stresses himself everything is subject to change as in development, things might and will change. What they are testing right now which is close to X-Com (not the same, there is still features from X-Com that are not in) might not make it in. But I can only stress that I was totally wrong regarding the hybrid-system, I draw conclusions with "commercial game" in mind as well of the more XCOMish reworked New Jericho faction. For me everything that was stated about TU's was mainly "propaganda" some "superficial changes to XCOM" (just splitting the move action into several steps) without realizing that deep down behind what one could see (what still looks to me an awful lot like XCOM) is a true TU-system.

Still I can agree that people should not be hyped about something that could possible be not in the final game at all. But I say it is save to assume that the TU's will stay (as it is the "core-system"), like I said I am really puzzled that they can "emulate" XCOM with it so closely.

Honestly I do not see much to nitpick or criticize about, I am sure everyone here would not be butthurt if they would release the game Q1/Q2 2019 and with their income from pre-orders they might be able to do so. Also as I have posted two posts above they are now hiring again which will probably speed up things.