Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[felipepepe]

The problem is not that the Lead Designer wanted to create an entirely new system and a new game logic. Obviously he's entitled to that.
The problem is the fact that this project was funded via Kickstarter, and that the majority of the backers were "led to believe" that this was going to be a return to the classics.

I disagree. I have no problem with a new system, but I have a problem with a new bad system. Sawyer constantly talks about how D&D is broken and stuff, but this system is much inferior. Worst, it fails at things that D&D already showed the solution.

 

[Infinitron]

Regular health system without stamina would not work because of at-will and per encounter powers, which would amount to health regen between fights.

wat

I don't get it. Are you assuming that healing spells would be per-encounter?

Stamina would give an incentive to rest

What for?

 

[Sensuki]

This is reminding me more and more of the WL2 beta thread.

The butthurt will be delicious.

I am roleplaying as felipepepe. Will I be scorned and left bitter? What will Obsidian choose to do?

 

[MicoSelva]

I don't get it. Are you assuming that healing spells would be per-encounter?

They would be like the stamina-restoring spells are now. I am assuming some of them are at-will, some per-encounter and some per-rest.

 

[Infinitron]

Sensuki, a hair's breadth away from receiving line producer job at Obsidian, suddenly commits career suicide.

 

[felipepepe]

I am roleplaying as felipepepe. Will I be scorned and left bitter? What will Obsidian choose to do?

You know, I lost my job 2 weeks ago. I'm totally blaming that on InXile's pulling some strings.

 

[Liston]

I only just realized that items no longer have weight and carrying 6 heavy armors is the same as carrying six eggs. I bet Josh really regrets making that "Strength Wizard" example.

I also hate that "you're out camping in the wilderness and want to craft a minor stamina potion? sure, just grind down an amethyst, combine it with fresh river reed, then add 600 fucking gold coins" shit. This whole "balance for the balance god" thing really needs to be reigned in before it completely destroys fun and immersion.

What the fuck?

Is this the best JES could come up with to solve the money sink problem? This is so logical. Add coins to craft something.

It's even worse in D&D and ToEE, beside money you also mix in your experience points. Have you not played ToEE Matt?
I would really expect a little more imagination from Double Fine fan, it's an abstraction for "you bought some mundane items you need for crafting".
Opening the spoiler below may cause aneurism, read at your own risk.

Spoiler

In D&D and ToEE you also spend gold to cast some spells.

 

[Sensuki]

You know, I lost my job 2 weeks ago.

So did I, is this real life?

y are you not scale with resolution

 

[Infinitron]

They would be like the stamina-restoring spells are now. I am assuming some of them are at-will, some per-encounter and some per-rest.

Okay, well:

If there are at-will healing spells, then you might as well enable health regen rather than make people cast them themselves by rote.

If there aren't any at-will healing spells, but there are per-encounter healing spells, then you're artificially making people wait until a fight has begun so they can heal themselves, which is kinda weird (although from a gamist perspective might be interesting). Or you might say that per-encounter spells are effectively at-will outside of fights, in which case see the previous item.

And if they're all per-rest, well, you're back to D&D-style healing resources, but in that case why not just make people rest when they're out of them? Who needs the stamina?

So, interesting idea, but not without its faults.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Sensuki, a hair's breadth away from receiving line producer job at Obsidian, suddenly commits career suicide.

Yeah, enjoy your 30k a year and ridiculous hours in a career that probably features more turnover than porn, and about as much self respect.

 

[Sensuki]

Has sea shot himself yet after having to answer customer emails?

 

[Bubbles]

The real gaming money is in the youtube personality business. J_C has the right idea.

 

[felipepepe]

Has sea shot himself yet after having to answer customer emails?

IIRC he shaved his head and now looks like Kane, the early years. Who would have thought that's the origin story of The Brotherhood of Nod?

 

[Sensuki]

I thought he was just trying to pass as Colin McComb

 

[felipepepe]

I thought he was just trying to pass as Colin McComb

Colin was the 90's Kane, after feedback from The Complete Book of Elves. Sea is a reboot.

 

[Sensuki]

Gravity don't mean shit to a dope fiend

 

[MicoSelva]

You know, I lost my job 2 weeks ago.

So did I

Sensuki confirmed as felipepepe's alt.

If there are at-will healing spells, then you might as well enable health regen rather than make people cast them themselves by rote.

I guess? Or just auto-cast at-will healing. It worked in Rage of Mages.

If there aren't any at-will healing spells, but there are per-encounter healing spells, then you're artificially making people wait until a fight has begun so they can heal themselves, which is kinda weird (although from a gamist perspective might be interesting). Or you might say that per-encounter spells are effectively at-will outside of fights, in which case see the previous item.

Um... how do per-encounter spells work now? Can you cast them outside of combat?
I would make it so if you cast them outside of combat, they only reset after next combat, so you are drawing from the 'next encounter' pool.

And if they're all per-rest, well, you're back to D&D-style healing resources, but in that case why not just make people rest when they're out of them? Who needs the stamina?

Seems like getting around the dreadful D&D 4E design is not easy.

I was operating on the assumption that spells are being moved from per-rest to per-encounter to at-will as your character levels up, because I remember reading that at some point. Not sure if this is actually in, though.

That would somewhat help with the issues you mentioned, also allowing for a sense of progression when your more powerful healing spells are being moved to the more available categories over time. First you can heal per-rest, then you can heal at will.

---

My main problem with current stamina/health system is that even if you are playing well, healing your characters at optimal moments, they will run out of health very fast, especially the 'tank', forcing you to rest. Maybe this is just the issue with the backer beta party, where there is only one 'tank', but it feels like you have to rest very often, even when playing well. Switching health and stamina around, you could still play with a battered party and while their effectiveness would be reduced (exhausted characters getting knocked out easily), it would not necessarily force you to reload the game, like running out of health does now. This would make resting more flexible.

EDIT:
Sensuki's suggestion to reduce the health damage ratio to less than 1/4 could help too, but it seems like bringing a bigger bucket beneath a hole in the roof, instead of fixing the roof.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Halp!

Can't start the beta - it says "failed to start (unknown error)". Deleted local content and re-installed, verified integrity, made sure that firewall/antivirus aren't interfering.

 

[Sensuki]

Windows version? System specs?

 

[msxyz]

My predictions for the future:
-PoE released in December 2014, still quite buggy, metacritic 8,2
-Heavy patching for the next 3 months
-Q1 2015 - kickstarter for the expansion, new lead designer. Obsidian gets $1-2 mil.
-Expansion released in the Q4, it's good, cozy and even more IE-like.
-Sawyer cry
- Q4 - Kickstarter for PoE2, Sawyer is only a common designer, not having much impact on the game. They are getting rid of % stats impact, overall revision of stat system. People are happy, game gets $4 mil.
-Sawyer is transferred into Armored Warfare team permanently, designing DLC's and expansions.
-Q4 2014 - Codex megathread is 9999 pages long, XenForo breaks down, all accounts deleted.

I'll hold on to that post for the future.

They won't see one more single penny from me if they don't use the few months between the release of the public beta and the complete product to turn this mess from Josh Sawyer's dream RPG into something vaguely resembling IE games.

This guy worked on IWD2 and FNV3 as lead producer and probably it was luck on Obsidian part that these were mere sequels and that the overall design couldn't be revolutionized to conform to his ideas.

 

[Shadenuat]

Yes I think it's just that most of the feats have not been implemented yet.

I'm a bit afraid of even more active feats - I don't have time to use most of spells and abilities as they are already.


As for stamina and HP, I'm not sure. It seems to work for what Sawyer wanted it, as it prolongues rest, but then balanced amount fo healing spells and coup de grace/maimed mechanic would do the same without also making every combat playing A LOT LONGER than it should be played and all the unintuitive stuff that comes out of it.

 

[Infinitron]

They won't see one more single penny from me if they don't use the few months between the release of the public beta and the complete product to turn this mess from Josh Sawyer's dream RPG into something vaguely resembling IE games.

This guy worked on IWD2 and FNV3 as lead producer and probably it was luck on Obsidian part that these were mere sequels and that the overall design couldn't be revolutionized to conform to his ideas.

Make no mistake, Sawyer earned this position. He's done the impossible more than once. Created a slam dunk Icewind Dale sequel in record time, when other people quit their jobs rather than face the challenge. Salvaged the NWN2 project and rescued it from being a total disaster. Led the production of Obsidian's best-selling game ever, Fallout: New Vegas, also in good time. All while working on countless pitches and cancelled games, including Van Buren and Baldur's Gate 3.

He's not some nobody, and there was really no chance of him not receiving this project.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Windows version? System specs?

Win 8, Core i5 3.1 GHz, 16GB RAM, GeForce GT 620. Never had this problem before.

 

[Duraframe300]

My predictions for the future:
-PoE released in December 2014, still quite buggy, metacritic 8,2
-Heavy patching for the next 3 months
-Q1 2015 - kickstarter for the expansion, new lead designer. Obsidian gets $1-2 mil.
-Expansion released in the Q4, it's good, cozy and even more IE-like.
-Sawyer cry
- Q4 - Kickstarter for PoE2, Sawyer is only a common designer, not having much impact on the game. They are getting rid of % stats impact, overall revision of stat system. People are happy, game gets $4 mil.
-Sawyer is transferred into Armored Warfare team permanently, designing DLC's and expansions.
-Q4 2014 - Codex megathread is 9999 pages long, XenForo breaks down, all accounts deleted.

I'll hold on to that post for the future.

They won't see one more single penny from me if they don't use the few months between the release of the public beta and the complete product to turn this mess from Josh Sawyer's dream RPG into something vaguely resembling IE games.

This guy worked on IWD2 and FNV3 as lead designer and probably it was luck on Obsidian part that these were mere sequels and that the overall design couldn't be revolutionized to conform to his ideas.

Also how does that argument make sense in the case of New Vegas?

 

[Duraframe300]

Windows version? System specs?

Win 8, Core i5 3.1 GHz, 16GB RAM, GeForce GT 620. Never had this problem before.

I looked through and the only time this was reported so far with FSecure Antivirus. Sry.

New bug report.