Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[roshan]

Make no mistake, Sawyer earned this position. He's done the impossible more than once. Created a slam dunk Icewind Dale sequel in record time, when other people quit their jobs rather than face the challenge. Salvaged the NWN2 project and rescued it from being a total disaster. Led the production of Obsidian's best-selling game ever, Fallout: New Vegas, also in good time. All while working on countless pitches and cancelled games, including Van Buren and Baldur's Gate 3.

He's not some nobody, and there was really no chance of him not receiving this project.

NWN2 still was a total disaster.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Not because of Sawyer. He salvaged it after the lead left after making a huge mess and going to work for Bioware.

 

[msxyz]

They won't see one more single penny from me if they don't use the few months between the release of the public beta and the complete product to turn this mess from Josh Sawyer's dream RPG into something vaguely resembling IE games.

This guy worked on IWD2 and FNV3 as lead producer and probably it was luck on Obsidian part that these were mere sequels and that the overall design couldn't be revolutionized to conform to his ideas.

Make no mistake, Sawyer earned this position. He's done the impossible more than once. Created a slam dunk Icewind Dale sequel in record time, where other people quit their jobs rather than face challenge. Salvaged the NWN2 project and rescued it from being a total disaster. Led the production of Obsidian's best-selling game ever, Fallout: New Vegas, also in good time. All while working on countless pitches and cancelled games, including Van Buren and Baldur's Gate 3.

He's not some nobody, and there was really no chance of him not receiving this project.

that makes him a good workhorse and project manager but not necessarily a good designer.

In my years working for big enteprises, I've seen several good middle managers that steered their divisions from complete disaster into ordered and efficient units but, once they rose to the top, they rarely demostrated to have good, innovative ideas or the ability to recognize a good proposal just because it wasn't their own.

These kind of guys should remain project managers for the rest of their life because that's where they excel.

 

[Bubbles]

Must be hard to market your game when your target audience is full of stuck-in-the-past grognards. You'd think BG2:EE would have changed the demographics for the better.

 

[eremita]

Not because of Sawyer. He salvaged it after the lead left after making a huge mess and going to work for Bioware.

And now is working for Bethesda on a new Fallout game...

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, he's uniquely qualified.

 

[Osvir]

Must be hard to market your game when your target audience is full of stuck-in-the-past grognards. You'd think BG2:EE would have changed the demographics for the better.

Ye, because 268 members (who might not all even have beta or have pledge) out of ~74'000 backers (excluding all the new slacker backers that probably reach ~10'000 now if not more) got anything to say. Polls are shit if not even 10% are voting. This vote isn't even 0.5% of all backers!!

Opinion: To get a near-credible public opinion, you have to at least get a vote/opinion from at least 1'000 people. In Sweden, if you want to get any attention whatsoever regarding state matters or whatnot, you have to get at least 1'000 people to sign your petition. Otherwise it's just shit.

 

[Sensuki]

I haven't voted in that because it's a pointless poll, but if I did I would vote "it makes little difference".

Combat XP is suddenly going to make combat amazing guize! Who cares about pathing! XP!!!!!````

 

[Maculo]

Perhaps you are right. But it's more a reaction to the far too negative/pessimistic and mostly uninformed

That's just the codex being the codex. Some want RPGs, others just want schadenfreude. And then there's Roguey.

Obsidian should also throw some coffee Sensuki's way considering his dedication thus far.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Combat XP is suddenly going to make combat amazing guize! Who cares about pathing! XP!!!!!````

Not much different from "no combat XP is saving RPGs guize!!!!" really.

 

[Shevek]

I dunno. I think alot of folks complaining are either making specious arguments (like equating PoE to Diablo, ridiculous) or whining because they expected the game to be a carbon copy of BG2 even though the devs repeated told them it would not. People bitching about "Diablo Itemization" or "MMO gameplay" or other stupidness are just looking for a reason to bitch; these false and superficial comparisons are made solely for the sake of argument. The people who are bitching that this isn't enough like BG2 need to buy BG2EE and go away.

The game has actual problems. However, these are not, in my view, related to the game's core design. Rather, they are moderate issues that can be patched away.
1. The first is bugs. This is to be expected. If Obsidian wants to fix the rep they have (either wrongly or rightly) gained for releasing buggy titles, they need to release PoE in a much less buggy state.
2. The second issue is related predominantly to combat feedback. Sensuki has covered this effectively in his posts. The major reason combat feels chaotic is the difficulty in tracking the action and selecting combatants.
3. The third issue relates to a few core balance issue. The health sharing thing for the Ranger does not feel quite right yet, guns feel way too powerful, etc.

There are small design decisions that I do not agree with (such as the lack of combat xp) but there are not actual problems; they are just differences in preferences between me and the devs. Some folks around here need to tell the difference between principle and preference. You cannot expect a dev to satisfy all of the crpg communities' varied and opposing preferences. However, the game has solid core crpg principles.

Its a good game. People need to cut out this bitch fest.

 

[J_C]

You know, I lost my job 2 weeks ago. I'm totally blaming that on InXile's pulling some strings.

Great, now you will have more time for the RPG book. ^^

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Sensuki]

Not much different from "no combat XP is saving RPGs guize!!!!" really.

Pretty much. This is why I said it makes little difference.

The game has actual problems. However, these are not, in my view, related to the game's core design. Rather, they are moderate issues that can be patched away.

There are some system design issues though. Attributes are not right yet. Inventory system is fubar. Movement in combat needs to be slowed down.

Also characters don't stand out from the background, whereas before they stood out too much.

 

[CyberP]

I haven't voted in that because it's a pointless poll, but if I did I would vote "it makes little difference".

Combat XP is suddenly going to make combat amazing guize! Who cares about pathing! XP!!!!!````

It makes every bit of difference:

No grinding permitted, therefore solid challenge can be maintained. No convoluted and inevitably unbalanced reward system, therefore balance can be maintained. No XP influencing gameplay choices, therefore actions/decisions can be free of obsessive compulsive XP whoring and choice and consequence is not influenced by this bullshit.

This is design Looking Glass Studios implemented way back and it's time other RPG devs caught on.

 

[Sensuki]

Not really. The issues with Kill XP in the IE games specifically is that you can do a non-violent solution and then kill the quest giver for XP. Can be solved with scripting probably, but it's probably just easier to remove xp for kills.

Like I said I really don't give a shit about either. I don't have a preference.

 

[Osvir]

Combat XP is suddenly going to make combat amazing guize! Who cares about pathing! XP!!!!!````

Not much different from "no combat XP is saving RPGs guize!!!!" really.

I still vote for Out of Combat Levels & Combat Levels being separate.

EDIT: I don't specifically have any problem with "this" (Kill XP) or "that" (Objective XP) system. But if I were to decide myself, then I would try something new that combines the best of two world in a way that they make sense authentically.

Out of Combat XP/Objective XP/Objective Levels = Who is the character, the person? What do they do in everyday life? What's their path of life (Class)?

Combat XP/Kill XP/Combat Levels = How good is the character at fighting? What skill do they have? How experienced and battle-worn are they?

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

So guise, how is the P:E beta?

It is a piece of RTwP shit like I had predicted.

Oh the sweet sweet delicious of RTWP-tards is awesome.

 

[felipepepe]

I dunno. I think alot of folks complaining are either making specious arguments (like equating PoE to Diablo, ridiculous)

It's all about context. PoE items ARE Diablo-like. The game has a set of enchantments that it applies loot, like "Fine" or "Bonus Crit Damage". Worst, even the unique items that have distinct lore and names are just regular items with three regular enchantments. Even Diablo 3 had the notion that unique items should be unique, and gave them unique skills.

In short, PoE itemization is simpler than Diablo, with less variables and only "blue items". It can't hold a candle to BG2 in that sense.

 

[Shadenuat]

The worst thing for me now are kinesthetics and combat feedback. I have no idea why I win or lose and what is happening in combat. I don't even know who is who on the screen when it comes to human enemies. Is the guy in robe a wiz and gonna cast something on me? Nope he gets a mace and tries to smack my rogue for some reason... is a dude with 2 daggers a fighter or a rogue? Oh it's a guy in leather armor and antlers-helmet who just paralyzed my whole party for 1 minute straight and I am dying. What paralyzed me though? Oh these little green sparkles and 5x15 pixels little green label on a portrait... wait I thought it was my Druid's stamina regeneration AoE??

 

[Shevek]

The power of words. When people like randomized item attributes, they call is "rogue-like." When they dislike it, they call it "diablo-like." I am sorry, but all this name calling isn't a substantive argument.

 

[Infinitron]

"Fine" items actually existed in Icewind Dale (I think they were called "Masterwork")

 

[Athelas]

I don't think there's any item randomization apart from minor loot? Also, 'Fine' weapons can still have magical effects and other bonuses - i.e. weapons can be 'fine' and still have a chance of paralysis on hit, for example. 'Fine' is basically the equivalent of +1 weapons.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

It's all about context. PoE items ARE Diablo-like. The game has a set of enchantments that it applies loot, like "Fine" or "Bonus Crit Damage". Worst, even the unique items that have distinct lore and names are just regular items with three regular enchantments. Even Diablo 3 had the notion that unique items should be unique, and gave them unique skills.

In short, PoE itemization is simpler than Diablo, with less variables and only "blue items". It can't hold a candle to BG2 in that sense.

Oh man...that sounds terrible. Some good schadenfreude here though.

Hmm... what could the reason be?

Perhaps having a truly unique item like Carsomyr might upset balance?

felipepepe
Since you no longer have a shot at that job... what are the other major failures of P:E beta if you can summarize?

 

[Crooked Bee]

They did promise unique items with unique backstories, iirc. They're probably just not in the beta (yet).

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

If I get felipepe correctly, there are unique items with unique backgrounds ...but they don't actually do anything unique, more like a combination of 3 + minor magical effects.