Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lacrymas]

This might sound odd perhaps but when you have the real deal, which is essentially a story of countless people that can't be ever matched by fiction of a few, you also come to appreciate the attempts being made that are being flavoured with marks of human creativity and ideology as well. Even if it's imperfect, even if it's not all that competent. The dimension is the individual's sentiment and imagination poured into it, which is why I still read fiction. Which is why LOTR is one of my favourite fictions because you can clearly see Tolkien's mind, ideology and dreams written in it.

How sentimental and saccharine. I am bombarded with bad art constantly, as I am in such an academic environment, and let me tell you, there's nothing more boring and worthless than bad art, regardless of how much "passion" and "imagination" was poured into it. It is the mark of a bad writer to hinge on worldbuilding and do nothing else, which is what PoE has in abundance. What do you see in PoE's lore? Do you see Tolkien? Or hopes and dreams? Or a deeper insight into the human condition? Or even an ideology?

 

[Quillon]

 

[FreeKaner]

This might sound odd perhaps but when you have the real deal, which is essentially a story of countless people that can't be ever matched by fiction of a few, you also come to appreciate the attempts being made that are being flavoured with marks of human creativity and ideology as well. Even if it's imperfect, even if it's not all that competent. The dimension is the individual's sentiment and imagination poured into it, which is why I still read fiction. Which is why LOTR is one of my favourite fictions because you can clearly see Tolkien's mind, ideology and dreams written in it.

How sentimental and saccharine. I am bombarded with bad art constantly, as I am in such an academic environment, and let me tell you, there's nothing more boring and worthless than bad art, regardless of how much "passion" and "imagination" was poured into it. It is the mark of a bad writer to hinge on worldbuilding and do nothing else, which is what PoE has in abundance. What do you see in PoE's lore? Do you see Tolkien? Or hopes and dreams? Or a deeper insight into the human condition? Or even an ideology?

Not all writing has merits and most writing will be fairly boring that whatever they tell isn't good enough to read. However this isn't about that, it's about why one might read about details and particularities of a fictional world when it can never compete with actual world in that regard. Tolkien's writing is good because he was a good writer, imaginative and passionate about what he was doing. Bad writing is that, bad writing, which PoE1 has abundance of but it isn't because they are detailing the world.

Tolkien also detailed the world intensely, going on about particular look of a particular character for an entire paragraph, yet his writing is good. Plenty of detail does not make for bad writing in itself, it's not a quantitative issue, it's a qualitative one.

 

[LizardWizard]

Josh looks like he aged 20 years since that kickstarter

 

[Sentinel]

Josh looks like he aged 20 years since that kickstarter

Reminds me of this pic

Someone should do one for Sawyer.

 

[Lacrymas]

Not all writing has merits and most writing will be fairly boring that whatever they tell isn't good enough to read. However this isn't about that, it's about why one might read about details and particularities of a fictional world when it can never compete with actual world in that regard. Tolkien's writing is good because he was a good writer, imaginative and passionate about what he was doing. Bad writing is that, bad writing, which PoE1 has abundance of but it isn't because they are detailing the world.

Tolkien also detailed the world intensely, going on about particular look of a particular character for an entire paragraph, yet his writing is good. Plenty of detail does not make for bad writing in itself, it's not a quantitative issue, it's a qualitative one.

It can compete, though, that's my point, and even surpass those. RL indigenous cultures are simply what they are and all you CAN do is read descriptions and scientific categorizations. My question was more directed at why you would read PoE's lore specifically if you are interested in anthropology or indigenous cultures. There are just better alternatives.

 

[FreeKaner]

Not all writing has merits and most writing will be fairly boring that whatever they tell isn't good enough to read. However this isn't about that, it's about why one might read about details and particularities of a fictional world when it can never compete with actual world in that regard. Tolkien's writing is good because he was a good writer, imaginative and passionate about what he was doing. Bad writing is that, bad writing, which PoE1 has abundance of but it isn't because they are detailing the world.

Tolkien also detailed the world intensely, going on about particular look of a particular character for an entire paragraph, yet his writing is good. Plenty of detail does not make for bad writing in itself, it's not a quantitative issue, it's a qualitative one.

It can compete, though, that's my point, and even surpass those. RL indigenous cultures are simply what they are and all you CAN do is read descriptions and scientific categorizations. My question was more directed at why you would read PoE's lore specifically if you are interested in anthropology or indigenous cultures. There are just better alternatives.

Well I am not interested in anthropology as a scientific and academic discipline, nor does "indigenous cultures" mean anything in itself aside from some crude description of a recipients of a foreign culture. I am just interested in a well-built setting that can be a foundation to enjoyable exploration, character progression(s) and whatever story, stories and interactions the writers might want to tell, with hopefully and ideally passion involved in all cases.

Also no, fiction cannot compete in terms of details, particularities and people with real world as that's a story that cannot be realised by few people in limited amount time. Although by merit of being fiction it can detail more than what we can know about any given person (though I find speculation in itself to be also interesting), which is also important.

 

[Lacrymas]

I meant fictional indigenous cultures can compete with RL ones, not all fiction ever to all history. But it also can do that, too, since the telling of a fictional story is something completely different than reading a history book.

I am just interested in a well-built setting that can be a foundation to enjoyable exploration, character progression(s) and whatever story, stories and interactions the writers might want to tell, with hopefully and ideally passion involved in all cases.

Yeah, that is much more than just reading about the lore in of itself, which was what we were talking about.

 

[FreeKaner]

I meant fictional indigenous cultures can compete with RL ones, not all fiction ever to all history. But it also can do that, too, since the telling of a fictional story is something completely different than reading a history book.


Yeah, that is much more than just reading about the lore in of itself, which was what we were talking about.

History books aren't necessarily just list of what was, although it's also that often times. History books have a lot of characters, events and details, so much in quantity and complexity that it becomes a quality of its own. Moreover, reality is more intricate than fiction, with countless individual actors.

No point lore in itself, that's not a word I like also actually, as I said earlier the world building is the foundation upon which other qualities of a video game will be built. A good setting is fundamental especially in an expansive RPGs which has us involved in not just a singular story arc but various events, incidents and accidents that we are to indulge in. In which case setting itself creates the field we are supposed to carve our story from, and the better detailed such field is the more meaningful the pieces can be. If this is done well, details will directly add to experience and will become the cornerstones in which we can shape to overall picture. Which can be likened to connect the dots, the more dots there are the more distinct the final result can be, of course I also do not mind when the lines are intentionally blurred or if it's an exercise in expression either. All have their places, but in this type of game, I prefer the definite result.

 

[FreeKaner]

Yeah bc u treat ancient stuff like Herodotus or Xenophon as if they were superobjective robots with history measurement gauges and shit

History is interesting when it is vague and filtred eg. fucking Saints War

My friend you are not a big fan of reading as I understand, considering you skipped this part I said above:

(though I find speculation in itself to be also interesting)

 

[AwesomeButton]

FreeKaner, what is the name of the book?

Lacrymas I get your point. You don't like reading worldbuilding as if it's scientific text. But your attempts to pass your opinion so authoritatively about Tolkien's qualities is biting a bit more than you can chew isn't it.

 

[Lacrymas]

I haven't said anything about Tolkien's qualities?

 

[FreeKaner]

FreeKaner, what is the name of the book?

A History of Southeast Asia by D. G. E. Hall.

I was primarily interested in SEA insofar their interaction with Europe and Islam, specifically the part about early stages of European colonialism but it's a good book, it's a not-so-brief broad introduction to region as a whole but not too in-depth either. It's an old book however so the historiography is not quite up to date and entirely accurate but I think it's an interesting read because of having a grasp of the European perspective as well.

 

[fantadomat]

I do agree with FreeKaner here. Most historical books are written by hired writers to depict their noble sire as a hero while their enemy as barbarian horde. They are filled with a lot of flavour and ambiguity. Many of them are fun read. I am still to see a really well made fantasy world in a game,you could argue that BG but that is because it had a few books that colour it. Most devs/writer lack the imagination and the logic to craft a real fantasy world,they just focus on a few things that you encounter in the game. What can you remember about PoE's cultures? Aedyr are some empire about duty and nobility,Vailia are about trade and being blacks,Glanfath are wood people that like to jizz all over some ruins and the main people are bunch of anarchists envious of the Aedyr and trying to become nobles. Cultures in fiction have only one or two predominate traits and that it is.

 

[Arulan]

I think one aspect of history in RPGs that can be very interesting is being presented with different (sometimes contradictory) accounts of it. This is something The Elder Scrolls did pretty well.

 

[Mazisky]

Josh looks like he aged 20 years since that kickstarter

Reminds me of this pic

Someone should do one for Sawyer.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Sannom]

There's too much new stuff on his face to make a good comparison. Too much hair and glasses.

 

[Cross]

What kind of miserable, soul-crushing life does he lead that he looks like he aged more than a decade in a few years?

Oh wait, I remember. He made Pillars of Eternity.

 

[Sentinel]

He looks better though. Maybe a bit more evil.

 

[Quillon]

 

[FreeKaner]

I can't believe how satisfying it is to know that rapiers are actually rapiers this time around.

 

[ShadowSpectre]

Earlier they mentioned you could import your save games from PoE, any word on to what extent that will affect PoE2? Not much new info on it as far as I can tell.

 

[Sentinel]

All we have so far is "i swear on me mum its gonna matter mate aye it will you'll see"

 

[Perkel]

I am in black so...

Any major changes to their combat system ?