Game News Pillars of Eternity Released

[Copper]

But you are invested in this Batman-like crusade against heretics and unbelievers, aren't you?

 

[Tigranes]

I love the game. I'm gonna talk about how much I like it. I think the game has some flaws. I'm gonna talk about how they should be improved.

Better than asking HEY DOES THIS GAME HAVE TOO MUCH WRITING / SAWYAH SAWYAH SAWYAH from some people.

 

[Delterius]

People who have finished or played Pillars extensively:

Is it worth it to wait for patches or should I use glorious Easter to finish this quest?

 

[Ninjerk]

People who have finished or played Pillars extensively:

Is it worth it to wait for patches or should I use glorious Easter to finish this quest?

I myself didn't encounter any game-breaking bugs, but there are plenty that could potentially ruin your enjoyment (including but not limited to: getting permanently stuck in Reardick's Keep, potentially infinitely stacking defense bug on Eder, save state growth from Chanter traps and possibly other things, Ranger Animal Companion getting stuck under the floor of the map, equipment bug that removes your racial bonuses).

 

[Ivan]

If you're playing it for the story (world) it's fine.

 

[Obama Phone 3]

I've gotten past character creation and into the introduction thus far.

What's everyone's consensus on the UI? I understand the purpose of emulating the IE, but I feel it looks a little too old-fashioned.

 

[Tigranes]

I've gotten past character creation and into the introduction thus far.

What's everyone's consensus on the UI? I understand the purpose of emulating the IE, but I feel it looks a little too old-fashioned.

What does 'old fashioned' mean?

 

[Xorazm]

I think it's fair to give Dragon Age Origins credit for creating a lively set of characters, who felt three dimensional in their motivations. Dialog is something that Bioware usually does well, to the point that they've let that particular strength of theirs overwhelm all their instincts towards game design. Nowadays their output feels more like friendship-simulators with a bit of RPG-lite thrown in between cutscenes.

The problem is that Dragon Age just didn't set any of these characters in a particularly interesting world. In Dark Souls, by contrast, everything you learned about the lore gave way to a greater mystery. There were riddles within riddles, cleverly placed throughout the game which lured you into a gradually unfolding, grand mythology.

In Pillars of Eternity, the characters are strong (Eder and Durance in particular break free from cliche in some interesting ways), but more importantly the game makes the lore matter. In Dragon Age the only lore that really made an impact on the gameworld was the same old tired cliches of "demons are back ....oh for some reason you're the only Warden who save things .....yawn ....oh look now there's more demons and only Green Stigmata Jesus can save us ....yawn). Even Dark Souls made the lore a sideshow, although arguably that decision befits its world.

What makes the writing in PoE strong is that you're presented with meaty questions that matter. The hollowborn crisis is placed front and center, along with the very real and lively questions of are gods real? do they make an impact on the world? I can tell you that, at about 15 hours into the game, I don't really know the answers to these questions and I'd really like to. Sure there are some instances of clunky phrasing here and there (I'm not a fan of "he smiled thinly") but when it comes to matters of substance I find that Pillars of Eternity is delivering.

 

[Bubbles]

I think it's fair to give Dragon Age Origins credit for creating a lively set of characters, who felt three dimensional in their motivations.

 

[Obama Phone 3]

I've gotten past character creation and into the introduction thus far.

What's everyone's consensus on the UI? I understand the purpose of emulating the IE, but I feel it looks a little too old-fashioned.

What does 'old fashioned' mean?

It looks like it could be lifted straight from an Infinity Engine game 10-15 years back instead of modernizing the UI (e.g. Diablo VS Diablo III).

Not that this detracts from the gameplay in any way shape or form, just something to consider.

 

[Obama Phone 3]

I think it's fair to give Dragon Age Origins credit for creating a lively set of characters, who felt three dimensional in their motivations. Dialog is something that Bioware usually does well, to the point that they've let that particular strength of theirs overwhelm all their instincts towards game design. Nowadays their output feels more like friendship-simulators with a bit of RPG-lite thrown in between cutscenes.

The problem is that Dragon Age just didn't set any of these characters in a particularly interesting world. In Dark Souls, by contrast, everything you learned about the lore gave way to a greater mystery. There were riddles within riddles, cleverly placed throughout the game which lured you into a gradually unfolding, grand mythology.

In Pillars of Eternity, the characters are strong (Eder and Durance in particular break free from cliche in some interesting ways), but more importantly the game makes the lore matter. In Dragon Age the only lore that really made an impact on the gameworld was the same old tired cliches of "demons are back ....oh for some reason you're the only Warden who save things .....yawn ....oh look now there's more demons and only Green Stigmata Jesus can save us ....yawn). Even Dark Souls made the lore a sideshow, although arguably that decision befits its world.

What makes the writing in PoE strong is that you're presented with meaty questions that matter. The hollowborn crisis is placed front and center, along with the very real and lively questions of are gods real? do they make an impact on the world? I can tell you that, at about 15 hours into the game, I don't really know the answers to these questions and I'd really like to. Sure there are some instances of clunky phrasing here and there (I'm not a fan of "he smiled thinly") but when it comes to matters of substance I find that Pillars of Eternity is delivering.

I get bored shitless firing up DA:O nowadays, and my first playthrough in 2010 took me to the 2/3 mark. I'm still in the intro of Dark Souls, but damn... The voice-acting is REALLY LAME.

 

[Irenaeus]

I think it's fair to give Dragon Age Origins credit for creating a lively set of characters, who felt three dimensional in their motivations.

More like

 

[Mastermind]

I think it's fair to give Dragon Age Origins credit for creating a lively set of characters, who felt three dimensional in their motivations. Dialog is something that Bioware usually does well, to the point that they've let that particular strength of theirs overwhelm all their instincts towards game design. Nowadays their output feels more like friendship-simulators with a bit of RPG-lite thrown in between cutscenes.

The problem is that Dragon Age just didn't set any of these characters in a particularly interesting world. In Dark Souls, by contrast, everything you learned about the lore gave way to a greater mystery. There were riddles within riddles, cleverly placed throughout the game which lured you into a gradually unfolding, grand mythology.

The DA setting is shit but not nearly as shit as most of the characters. I liked the dwarf in DA:O because he wasn't a bioware character, he was a time tested stereotype which any idiot could nail (not figuratively, I figured I should clarify that since we are talking about a bioware game). Everybody else OTOH ranged from mediocre to shit.

 

[Szioul]

Club of Refined and Prestigious Gentlemen.

Spoiler

In the brothel at Defiance Bay, talk to the drunk at the bottom of the stairs, equip the ring and head upstairs.

 

[zeroprometheus]

Good game thus far, ive reached Caed Nua. Im still trying to figure out what vs. Deflection (-5 accuracy) , actually means. And why are morning stars two-handed? It seems weapon foci are screwed up or largely superficial. In DnD melee progression was centered around thaco and chance to hit, but you pretty much have a decent go at any weapon from level one. Also the grouping of weapon specializations is arbitrary. the only hammer is a two handed war hammer and it looks like ill be wasting points in two handed after already taking dual wield just to use it.

Oh and can anyone answer the age old dwarven dilemma of axes or hammers? ...for roleplay purposes.

 

[Irenaeus]

Axes are for proles, hammers all the way, baby.

 

[Tigranes]

I've gotten past character creation and into the introduction thus far.

What's everyone's consensus on the UI? I understand the purpose of emulating the IE, but I feel it looks a little too old-fashioned.

What does 'old fashioned' mean?

It looks like it could be lifted straight from an Infinity Engine game 10-15 years back instead of modernizing the UI (e.g. Diablo VS Diablo III).

Not that this detracts from the gameplay in any way shape or form, just something to consider.

Right. I'm at fault, really, for being stupid enough to reply.

Are there no 1h hammers or morning stars? I suppose now I think about it I've only seen maces and flails.

 

[Duraframe300]

Lots of infodumpy PCs shoving the setting in your face b/c they're trying to start a brand

This is something I'm hoping isn't as overdone as some people are implying, and is a completely dumb idea to begin with. It sounds like Mass Effect, but all codex entries are actual conversations you have with people. Or if Planescape had gone full aspie on the metaphysics of the planes.

It's not that bad, people just don't like to read.

I have a full week off from work now, so this would be an ideal time to give PoE a try if I had the motivation to do so. Whenever I read anything by Sawyer it rubs me the wrong way though (snarky politically correct hipsterism), and I figure his game would have the same effect. If I recall correctly he backed Sarkeesian/FeministFrequency and opposed gamers during GamerGate, so I don't feel like giving him my money.

I was going to ask if someone here was able to enjoy PoE despite disliking Sawyer as a person, or if he's injected much of his personality into the game, but by writing this post I convinced myself not to purchase it regardless.

Thankfully TW3 is right around the corner now.

Game isn't SJW. Eric Fenstermaker, Lead Narrative Designer, is a bro.

I mentioned it before, but as a creator even Sawyer isn't. Too much of a history faq.

Ofc he might as well be swayed at some point. If, at one point, rape is missing from a Sawyer game we should be worried.

 

[Ninjerk]

I've gotten past character creation and into the introduction thus far.

What's everyone's consensus on the UI? I understand the purpose of emulating the IE, but I feel it looks a little too old-fashioned.

What does 'old fashioned' mean?

It looks like it could be lifted straight from an Infinity Engine game 10-15 years back instead of modernizing the UI (e.g. Diablo VS Diablo III).

Not that this detracts from the gameplay in any way shape or form, just something to consider.

Right. I'm at fault, really, for being stupid enough to reply.

Are there no 1h hammers or morning stars? I suppose now I think about it I've only seen maces and flails.

I've found 2 or 3 morningstars.

 

[Obama Phone 3]

I think it's fair to give Dragon Age Origins credit for creating a lively set of characters, who felt three dimensional in their motivations.

 

[Xorazm]

I think it's fair to give Dragon Age Origins credit for creating a lively set of characters, who felt three dimensional in their motivations.

More like

I feel like it's worth giving credit where credit is due. You guys let the apostasy of later Bioware releases blind you to what accomplishments, however few, they deserve credit for. It's possible for an infamous release by an infamous developer to at least do a few things right.

Here, I'll explain.

Remember how in the Red Letter Media review of the Star Wars prequels, the narrator asked random people to describe the characters in the originals, then asked them to describe Qui-Gon Jin? The interviewees are quick to describe characters like Han Solo but struggle when they get to the prequel characters because those characters simply are not defined well. Now ask if adjectives readily spring to mind to in order to describe the characters in a game you've played. It's been awhile since I've spend time with Origins, but off the top of my head, remembering the party I played with:

Morrigan: Wry. Skeptical of civilization. Stand-offish.
Sten: Stoic. Duty bound. Private.
Wynn: Warm. Maternal.

Okay, so now your characters have actual characterization and a consistent set of personality traits. The next trick is to try to give them a set of motivations which add depth to their personalities.

With Sten, the only way to make sense of him is to understand the importance of role-dependence in his culture. He expresses confusion at the culture of the gameworld when people deviate from the set of roles as he's come to understand them, particularly when women take up arms. He'll express approval or disapproval of your actions based not on their independent moral worth, but whether you are acting in the pre-defined role of a "Warden" or not. Personally, I always think it's interesting when narratives attempt to tackle blue-and-orange morality and this was a worthy attempt that added a little bit of color to the game world, maybe a little Klingon-y with the stoic warrior race but I like how they tried to cross that with the Moorish influence in medieval Europe. It was cute when it turned out that he had a soft spot for dogs, which he fiercely denied.

Morrigan is another outsider to the culture and has an outsider's view of it all, but where Sten is confused and contemptuous of rule-deviation, Morrigan is confused and contemptuous of servility. Her perspective is shaped by having grown up isolated in the wilds but she'll occasionally share stories about the forays that she took into civilization sheerly for curiosity's sake. She's a more lively personality than Sten and has more witty dialog but her perspective isn't quite as interesting or alien, beyond the more simple question of what civilization would look like to someone raised entirely apart from it. Still, the interactions between Morrigan and Sten were sometimes sharp. Morrigan is written as the wittier of the two and generally gets the better of those she speaks with, but every once in a while Sten gets one up on her:

• Morrigan: You are very quiet, Sten.
• Sten: Only compared to some.

It's good writing. I'm sorry if that makes you guys feel bad, but it's well done, and more importantly, it requires a knowledge of their respective personalities to quite bring off. Pillars of Eternity, for all the mechanical things it does very well, lacks this level of character interaction (from what I've seen). I got a laugh out of Eder's attempt to pet Sagani's fox, it's cute and well done, but it's not quite as rooted in the characterization.

Wynne ....I don't remember much about Wynne. I needed a healer but it's hard to write someone whose personality is "nice" in a way that's done well. I liked that there was an air of melancholy surrounding her which humanized her to a certain extent, and it was a nice twist that she was actually dead and expecting to fade away again at a certain point. The expression of her character wasn't particularly sharp but that's an interesting spin and gave her a more complex motivation.

There. Lively. Interesting sets of motivations (raised in an alien culture and trying to make sense of the world, raised in the wilds and trying to make sense of the world, raised in this world but secretly an undead specter). We're not talking Tolstoy by any stretch of the imagination - War and Peace remains the gold standard, and we're a thousand miles and a very deep ocean away from that - but for fantasy fiction and especially for fantasy RPGs it's a cut above the norm.

The game is still set in an uninteresting, generic world with an uninteresting, generic conflict at the center of it.

The game is still cursed with RTwP combat.

But credit where credit is due.


....I swear, it's like nuance is the kryptonite of the internet.

 

[zeroprometheus]

I think i found a bug with obe of my duel wield weapons disappearing. Im not sure at what point. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Mastermind]

Good game thus far, ive reached Caed Nua. Im still trying to figure out what vs. Deflection (-5 accuracy) , actually means.

It means it checks against deflection to see what kind of hit it is (miss, graze, hit, critical) with a -5 penalty to your accuracy.

 

[Kalasanty11]

http://gamingbolt.com/pillars-of-eternity-cities-skylines-earn-18-5-million-in-three-weeks
I wonder how much of it goes to PoE.

 

[Jasede]

I've gotten past character creation and into the introduction thus far.

What's everyone's consensus on the UI? I understand the purpose of emulating the IE, but I feel it looks a little too old-fashioned.

Eh, I like it. My only problem with it is that the symbols could be bigger. I am getting old, I can't look at tiny symbols. BG 1/2 had bigger ones. Of course they're only so small to fit with the whole renaissance aesthetic, though. With that size complaint out of the way, I find the interface extremely intuitive and easy to use with one single nigger: I haven't figured out the hotkeys to use abilities. Like, I'd like to be able to press "2" or "F2" to use Knockdown or something like that. But that doesn't seem to work. I'll have to check the keybindings. Don't have time now, I am moving.