Eternity PoE II: Deadfire Sales Analysis Thread

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Here's my take on the designers Roguey mentions as being "peak Obsidian", excluding Chris Avellone.

What they weren't: Uniformly as good as Chris Avellone. There's this idea floating around that there was this golden age where Obsidian was brimming with Avellone-tier writers capable of pumping out MotB masterpiece after masterpiece. I think that's a myth.

What they were: Representatives of a generation that was generally closer to the RPG Codex's cultural and artistic sensibilities/influences than Obsidian's current crop of writers.

As for Avellone himself, he's so suis generis that there's not a lot to meaningfully discuss.

Exactly. This becomes obvious after Avellone's revelations about Obsidian. How could they combine their talents if they were always scraping for different projects and having to deal with poor management?

 

[MajorMace]

If that's what you think, I don't know how can you be interested in anything Obsidian has done, because BG2, and even BG1 and Kotor is better than half of Obsidian's titles. The only games which are better than the BG series/Kotor are New Vegas, MotB, Kotor2 and Alpha Protocol.

This doesn't make sense.

 

[Trashos]

Well, they combined their talents in New Vegas. Many of them, anyway.

But yes, New Vegas aside, I don't think dream teams produce interesting stuff very often, and I don't think they are needed. Projects need a couple of talented people to lead the rest and some talent with potential. That's usually enough. That said, lack of talent can go too far, and it has.

 

[fantadomat]

Whats a Neanderthol?

This:

It lives in a WORD where religious people force things down his throat.

 

[J_C]

If that's what you think, I don't know how can you be interested in anything Obsidian has done, because BG2, and even BG1 and Kotor is better than half of Obsidian's titles. The only games which are better than the BG series/Kotor are New Vegas, MotB, Kotor2 and Alpha Protocol.

This doesn't make sense.

What I'm trying to say is that Roguey is championing several of Obsidian's games (like PoE), meanwhile saying that every Bioware game is shit. Really? Because PoE for example is worse than the Baldur's Gate games.

 

[Roguey]

If that's what you think, I don't know how can you be interested in anything Obsidian has done, because BG2, and even BG1 and Kotor is better than half of Obsidian's titles.

Not when it comes to writing they're not. Absurdian is often absurd when it comes to gameplay, sure.

If you enjoyed Tyranny of nuObsidian you have no right criticize them now or talk in a condescending manner about Bioware. It's the same shit, well, only worse.

I liked Tyranny's writing better than Dragon Age's. Combat is comparable in quality, though Tyranny had better pacing for the most part (except for those oldwalls).

 

[Nano]

Here's my take on the designers Roguey mentions as being "peak Obsidian", excluding Chris Avellone.

What they weren't: Uniformly as good as Chris Avellone. There's this idea floating around that there was this golden age where Obsidian was brimming with Avellone-tier talents capable of pumping out MotB masterpiece after masterpiece. I think that's a myth.

Nobody was saying that. They're writers who produced quality work while at Obsidian, something that the current crop have yet to accomplish.

 

[2house2fly]

Here's my take on the designers Roguey mentions as being "peak Obsidian", excluding Chris Avellone.

What they weren't: Nearly as good as Chris Avellone. There's this idea floating around that there was this golden age where Obsidian was brimming with Avellone-tier talents capable of pumping out MotB masterpiece after masterpiece. I think that's a myth.

What they were: Representatives of a generation that was closer to the RPG Codex's cultural and artistic sensibilities than Obsidian's current crop of writers.

As for Avellone himself, he's so suis generis that there's not a lot to meaningfully discuss.

Sensibilities aside, Fenstermaker and Gonzalez may not have been Avellone-tier but they were definitely better than their replacements. The drop in quality between Pillars 1's Fenstermaker opening and Pillars 2's (Sawyer? Patel?) remains shocking to me

 

[Lhynn]

Tyranny is obsidians most underrated game.

 

[Roguey]

Sensibilities aside, Fenstermaker and Gonzalez may not have been Avellone-tier but they were definitely better than their replacements. The drop in quality between Pillars 1's Fenstermaker opening and Pillars 2's (Sawyer? Patel?) remains shocking to me

Josh has been the project director of games with good openings in the past, so this is Patel's Pratfall.

 

[Trashos]

Sensibilities aside, Fenstermaker and Gonzalez may not have been Avellone-tier but they were definitely better than their replacements. The drop in quality between Pillars 1's Fenstermaker opening and Pillars 2's (Sawyer? Patel?) remains shocking to me

The Survivalist's Logs in Honest Hearts were Gonzalez's. Now, that's a dude who can write.

No way Deadfire's opening is Sawyer's writing. Very different style. Whoever wrote that opening doesn't understand what a bad writer she is, and also, yeah, I bet it's a woman due to the style (or, at the very least, someone who usually writes for a female audience).

 

[Bocha]

There is a bug in the character system, some retarded made a mess in the triggers, the characters are not behaving as they should in the conversations, some are firing earlier than expected or not firing at all

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Sensibilities aside, Fenstermaker and Gonzalez may not have been Avellone-tier but they were definitely better than their replacements. The drop in quality between Pillars 1's Fenstermaker opening and Pillars 2's (Sawyer? Patel?) remains shocking to me

Josh has been the project director of games with good openings in the past, so this is Patel's Pratfall.

Josh was the director, it’s all on him when there’s substandard content. Whenever he says, “I gave the writers leeway,” he’s telling us he didn’t care enough to provide oversight or fix problems. I personally don’t think the opening is that bad, but it’s not something I’d want to play through repeatedly. And the beginning of the game is not something the director wasn’t looking at because he’s too busy. If Josh hasn’t gone over the content in the first couple of hours with a fine toothed come, then Josh was phoning it in.

Besides, the opening of Pillars 1 was pretty underwhelming and also not skippable. A really uninspired and pointless opening is a franchise defining trait.

 

[Lhynn]

Pillars of Eternity 1 opening is the best part of the game. The starting dungeon is the best, the companions are the best (in how they are introduced).

My first thought with Pillars of Eternity 2 was "This cant be right", followed by "What the fuck where they thinking?". Considering how much better the game gets after it i just cant believe it isnt skippable.

 

[Roguey]

then Josh was phoning it in.

Phone-it-in Chris becomes Phone-it-in Josh, how appropriate.

 

[Trashos]

I personally don’t think the opening is that bad, but it’s not something I’d want to play through repeatedly.

I am surprised you don't see how awful it is. Then again, someone who is being paid to write wrote it, and someone else (I guess) greenlit it. And there was noone around to suicide-bomb in order to protect Obsidian's legacy and honor.

It is not "it's a matter of opinion" bad. It is "show it to real writers, and you 'll see them speeding up and jumping out of the window" bad.

 

[MajorMace]

real writers come up with peragus or pst's mortuary
i'm not sure i'd give a fuck how they'd design the beginning

this being said, it is indeed an awful fucking start

 

[Sentinel]

It's not a question of writers as much as it is designers. I find it weird that Josh Sawyer would greenlight that beginning when he's so much for the story not being in the way of the player's freedom, as is evident in F:NV. He's even talked about how much he prefers a structure that just lets the player go off immediately instead of bogging him down with unskippable content.

I'd like to know why the fuck he thought that intro would be ok. They could at least use the Berath's Blessing system to make it skippable.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

I personally don’t think the opening is that bad, but it’s not something I’d want to play through repeatedly.

I am surprised you don't see how awful it is. Then again, someone who is being paid to write wrote it, and someone else (I guess) greenlit it. And there was noone around to suicide-bomb in order to protect Obsidian's legacy and honor.

It is not "it's a matter of opinion" bad. It is "show it to real writers, and you 'll see them speeding up and jumping out of the window" bad.

The problem with the opening is the level design. The prose is almost irrelevant. It’s the switching back and forth between pointless linear walking and pointless dialogue/narration. The beginning of Deadfire should be a skippable two minute narration with a cut scene and then character creation. The game should then start on the boat, easy peasy.

I don’t think the writing is particularly awful for an RPG, although many people don’t seem to like the voice actress who’s doing the narration. Even if I thought the writing was terrible, though, it couldn’t possibly be worse than the design.

Edit: fucking ninjas

 

[Trashos]

Maybe I have been skipping all the right RPGs. But I haven't seen writing this terrible since I was being forced to read the blogs of my dates 15 years ago.

 

[Sentinel]

Maybe I have been skipping all the right RPGs. But I haven't seen writing this terrible since I was being forced to read the blogs of my dates 15 years ago.

The writing isn't stellar but that's not the issue. You could have the most incredible writing in that slow walking segment but it would still get boring and irritating on repeat playthroughs.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Screencaps of bad writing please.

If that's the case it's upsetting that Deadfire has such writing.

 

[Trashos]

The writing isn't stellar but that's not the issue. You could have the most incredible writing in that slow walking segment but it would still get boring and irritating on repeat playthroughs.

There are two issues, I am not disagreeing with that. Maybe they thought that the introduction was so great that everyone should watch it repeatedly.

Screencaps of bad writing please.

If that's the case it's upsetting that Deadfire has such writing.

Here you go:

An aged dwarf shares this strange floating platform with you. His face is creased by so many wrinkles that his features lie buried amid shadowy pockets of skin. Still, the dwarf's well-practiced habits have left telltale tracks of a welcoming rictus across his visage. You can see his smile coming before it blooms, reshaping the dwarf's face from a hanging sack of flesh into something resembling an oddly-carved, merry gourd, replete with unhealthy bumps and discolored botches.

A pale, slender neck rises from the gorget, topped by a hollow face. The milky skin stretched across it is delicate and translucent, like parchment that has been scraped clean too many times.

With each movement, her armor squeaks and groans as though bearing an incredible weight.

She points a finger in the direction of the dwarf who led you there. Though the movement is slight, her gauntlet squeaks like a rusty hinge.

Reference (7th minute and on):

Spoiler

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Ok. After reading that I did not listen to the video out of cringe effect. It is still affecting me.

That's kind of some embarrassing shit tbh.
For fuck's sake, I kept thinking 'Just say his face looks like a nutsack. It's what you're trying to infer in some bullshit flowery language cause the nigga is so old.'

Fucking dumb. A wrinkly merry gourd replete with bumps. That's a diseased nutsack with some nasty ass STDs.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

I don’t see how this is any worse stylistically than, say, the Baldur’s Gate dream sequences.