[Poll] Best roguelike and why

[xuerebx]

I'll reply later to both of you as I'm at work, but actually Cogmind is also on my wish list (forgot to add it) and Nethack is on my to-play (don't know how I forgot it) although I suspect that I may be put off because apparently it's very very big and the rules are hidden and complex. But I will definitely try it out.

 

[Turn_BASED]

This was actually a great thread for a newbie like me to select RLs to start off with. Started off beginning of this year and played and finished TOME4, Zorbus, and DCSS. Now I'm playing Angband, and I have Caves of Qud, Infra Arcana, CDDA, ADOM, UnRea World, DoomRL and Sil-Q to try out . The only one I've played and it didn't really do it for me was Brogue.

I sense problems at the horizon. CDDA is more an open world slash surviva slash RL - and it doesn't have any endgame. Not sure in case of Unreal. Also CDDA uses the same keyboard shortcut conventions that standard RLs use but it has a lot more complexity than most RLs. Read: it is a pain to remember all keyboard shortcuts you need. But well worth it. The game is huge. The vehicle buildng and driving "minigame" (not really minigame, it is 100% integrated into gameplay) alone could be a small game in itself and wouldn't be a bad one.

What about Incursion, despite being unfinished it supposedly is an interesting RL.

Also why not Nethack?

In addition I propose trying Wazhack. It is a weird simplified version of Nethack - but by no means simple or easy. Weird because it has very different presentation like many rogue-lites. It is turn/phase whatever based though it might look real time at first glance. Make no mistake, this one is a true RL minus the view perspective.

Don't feel the need to try Cogmind?

What about IVAN? At least for some lulz. Though it is finishable. Right? Anyone who played a lot can share a thought?

I didn't like Brogue for some reason as well.

Did you like Cogmind? I’ve been thinking about giving it a spin.

 

[xuerebx]

This was actually a great thread for a newbie like me to select RLs to start off with. Started off beginning of this year and played and finished TOME4, Zorbus, and DCSS. Now I'm playing Angband, and I have Caves of Qud, Infra Arcana, CDDA, ADOM, UnRea World, DoomRL and Sil-Q to try out . The only one I've played and it didn't really do it for me was Brogue.

No interest in NetHack? Also, if you want to try something different, then I would recommend to try out a game called hyperrogue.

Actually NetHack is on my list, just forgot to write it down. Hyperrogue is..different. The trailer honestly gave me motion sickness :D

 

[xuerebx]

This was actually a great thread for a newbie like me to select RLs to start off with. Started off beginning of this year and played and finished TOME4, Zorbus, and DCSS. Now I'm playing Angband, and I have Caves of Qud, Infra Arcana, CDDA, ADOM, UnRea World, DoomRL and Sil-Q to try out . The only one I've played and it didn't really do it for me was Brogue.

I sense problems at the horizon. CDDA is more an open world slash surviva slash RL - and it doesn't have any endgame. Not sure in case of Unreal. Also CDDA uses the same keyboard shortcut conventions that standard RLs use but it has a lot more complexity than most RLs. Read: it is a pain to remember all keyboard shortcuts you need. But well worth it. The game is huge. The vehicle buildng and driving "minigame" (not really minigame, it is 100% integrated into gameplay) alone could be a small game in itself and wouldn't be a bad one.

What about Incursion, despite being unfinished it supposedly is an interesting RL.

Also why not Nethack?

In addition I propose trying Wazhack. It is a weird simplified version of Nethack - but by no means simple or easy. Weird because it has very different presentation like many rogue-lites. It is turn/phase whatever based though it might look real time at first glance. Make no mistake, this one is a true RL minus the view perspective.

Don't feel the need to try Cogmind?

What about IVAN? At least for some lulz. Though it is finishable. Right? Anyone who played a lot can share a thought?

I didn't like Brogue for some reason as well.

CDDA seems to be different from the rest. The post apocalyptic setting is what intrigued me, but I'll give it a try even though it's not like the other RLs. Maybe when I get a bit burned out from the RL sameness.

Does Incursion have a tileset? The official website is down so I can't check. I didn't mention but I only play the ones which have a tileset at least (just not ASCII).

NetHack and Cogmind - yep on the list.

Wazhack looks like a sidescroller? https://store.steampowered.com/app/264160/WazHack/

Brogue is aesthetically pleasing but its allure (no XP, no classes, starting out as a blank state and improving via the items found) just isn't for me. I do see how it requires good strategy to progress though, which is neat. Also the map screen is very small (since you need to see the full map without scrolling) which makes it difficult to read everything.

 

[Turn_BASED]

This was actually a great thread for a newbie like me to select RLs to start off with. Started off beginning of this year and played and finished TOME4, Zorbus, and DCSS. Now I'm playing Angband, and I have Caves of Qud, Infra Arcana, CDDA, ADOM, UnRea World, DoomRL and Sil-Q to try out . The only one I've played and it didn't really do it for me was Brogue.

I sense problems at the horizon. CDDA is more an open world slash surviva slash RL - and it doesn't have any endgame. Not sure in case of Unreal. Also CDDA uses the same keyboard shortcut conventions that standard RLs use but it has a lot more complexity than most RLs. Read: it is a pain to remember all keyboard shortcuts you need. But well worth it. The game is huge. The vehicle buildng and driving "minigame" (not really minigame, it is 100% integrated into gameplay) alone could be a small game in itself and wouldn't be a bad one.

What about Incursion, despite being unfinished it supposedly is an interesting RL.

Also why not Nethack?

In addition I propose trying Wazhack. It is a weird simplified version of Nethack - but by no means simple or easy. Weird because it has very different presentation like many rogue-lites. It is turn/phase whatever based though it might look real time at first glance. Make no mistake, this one is a true RL minus the view perspective.

Don't feel the need to try Cogmind?

What about IVAN? At least for some lulz. Though it is finishable. Right? Anyone who played a lot can share a thought?

I didn't like Brogue for some reason as well.

CDDA seems to be different from the rest. The post apocalyptic setting is what intrigued me, but I'll give it a try even though it's not like the other RLs. Maybe when I get a bit burned out from the RL sameness.

Does Incursion have a tileset? The official website is down so I can't check. I didn't mention but I only play the ones which have a tileset at least (just not ASCII).

NetHack and Cogmind - yep on the list.

Wazhack looks like a sidescroller? https://store.steampowered.com/app/264160/WazHack/

Brogue is aesthetically pleasing but its allure (no XP, no classes, starting out as a blank state and improving via the items found) just isn't for me. I do see how it requires good strategy to progress though, which is neat. Also the map screen is very small (since you need to see the full map without scrolling) which makes it difficult to read everything.

WazHack is an insane sidescrolling take on NetHack that's all fun, no fuss, and still difficult. If you're getting roguelike fatigue I'd say go for it.

 

[Serus]

This was actually a great thread for a newbie like me to select RLs to start off with. Started off beginning of this year and played and finished TOME4, Zorbus, and DCSS. Now I'm playing Angband, and I have Caves of Qud, Infra Arcana, CDDA, ADOM, UnRea World, DoomRL and Sil-Q to try out . The only one I've played and it didn't really do it for me was Brogue.

I sense problems at the horizon. CDDA is more an open world slash surviva slash RL - and it doesn't have any endgame. Not sure in case of Unreal. Also CDDA uses the same keyboard shortcut conventions that standard RLs use but it has a lot more complexity than most RLs. Read: it is a pain to remember all keyboard shortcuts you need. But well worth it. The game is huge. The vehicle buildng and driving "minigame" (not really minigame, it is 100% integrated into gameplay) alone could be a small game in itself and wouldn't be a bad one.

What about Incursion, despite being unfinished it supposedly is an interesting RL.

Also why not Nethack?

In addition I propose trying Wazhack. It is a weird simplified version of Nethack - but by no means simple or easy. Weird because it has very different presentation like many rogue-lites. It is turn/phase whatever based though it might look real time at first glance. Make no mistake, this one is a true RL minus the view perspective.

Don't feel the need to try Cogmind?

What about IVAN? At least for some lulz. Though it is finishable. Right? Anyone who played a lot can share a thought?

I didn't like Brogue for some reason as well.

CDDA seems to be different from the rest. The post apocalyptic setting is what intrigued me, but I'll give it a try even though it's not like the other RLs. Maybe when I get a bit burned out from the RL sameness.

Does Incursion have a tileset? The official website is down so I can't check. I didn't mention but I only play the ones which have a tileset at least (just not ASCII).

NetHack and Cogmind - yep on the list.

Wazhack looks like a sidescroller? https://store.steampowered.com/app/264160/WazHack/

Brogue is aesthetically pleasing but its allure (no XP, no classes, starting out as a blank state and improving via the items found) just isn't for me. I do see how it requires good strategy to progress though, which is neat. Also the map screen is very small (since you need to see the full map without scrolling) which makes it difficult to read everything.

As the Turn_BASED above me said, Wazhack is a unique (i heard it before too) take on RL conventions still remaining a roguelike and not becoming a rogue-lite. It "looks" like a side scroller, yes. Imagine a side scroller that isn't real-time. Add weird/fun/obscure interactions between objects and environment. This is where the "very simplified but not simple Nethack-like" is. Add permadeath and so on. I'm not claiming this is a great RL but it is certainly worth trying if for nothing else then for how different it is. Also fun.
It is probably more of a rogulike than CDDA is, too. Nothing wrong about CDDA. In fact I love it and i voted for it. However it is really a mixed genre game. One where rogulike is only a component.

Agree on Brogue again.

One last thing, I also vastly prefer tilesets and I play them whenever available but I don't neglect ascii completely. With a well done ascii eventually you stop caring at some pointy and imagination does most of the work. It isn't something people make up, it really works that way. Otoh, there are so many RLs with tilesets (or even proper graphics) that i can see that someone might find ascii unnecessary.

 

[Bad Sector]

You mentioned you are a bit ignorant about roguelikes (and TBH so am i), but i'd like to point out that Moria and Angband are quite different even if the latter is derived from the former. Angband is basically someone (or some people) getting Moria, adding stuff and then forgetting to stop adding stuff for about three decades :-P.

I say that because not too long ago i felt like playing a roguelike and decided to try out Angband since it was easy to download and compile... but it had some very weird UI and somehow playing it felt a bit off.

Then i decided to try Moria, or actually Umoria which is the original Unix port of Moria from back in the 80s and it was a much more conventional roguelike played through the terminal. Even though from a first look Moria feels like a monochrome version of Angband's ascii output, i think it is a more focused game. Sadly Umoria (the version available from umoria.org) seems to have a bug so savegames are getting corrupted. So i downloaded Gmoria, which is an older version of Umoria "ported" to the GNU build utils, which in theory should make it much more portable but in practice it seems to not work on anything aside from Linux :-P. But savegames work fine with that version, so that is what i play now whenever i feel like playing a quick round of a roguelike.

Umoria/Gmoria doesn't have any big changes from the original 90s versions, it is largely small tweaks and bug fixes over the years (the savegame bug in Umoria seems to be introduced recently though and i think it is already fixed now). It even needs and only supports a 80x24 display (so i just make a fullscreen terminal window and increase the font size to approximate that size before playing). Interestingly Gmoria also comes with a somewhat lengthy (~66 pages) manual, which wasn't something i expected (the original Unix version of Rogue - or at least the version you can find bundled with NetBSD anyway - also has a manual, but that is ~8 pages IIRC). Of course in traditional Unix fashion, it is all text with only a single "screenshot" :-P.

 

[xuerebx]

One last thing, I also vastly prefer tilesets and I play them whenever available but I don't neglect ascii completely. With a well done ascii eventually you stop caring at some pointy and imagination does most of the work. It isn't something people make up, it really works that way. Otoh, there are so many RLs with tilesets (or even proper graphics) that i can see that someone might find ascii unnecessary.

I think it's just the fact that a tileset is available so I will automatically revert to that. ASCII would need some time to get used to. In any case, thanks for the explanation!

I got to dungeon level 32 in Angband and died. I can't bring myself to play it again knowing that the end game is at 99 dungeon levels, so I'm trying out Sil-Q next. Also everything is too much of the same thing, and 99 dungeons is no joke. I did enjoy finding stronger equipment though, AND meeting characters or weapons/items from LOTR.

Also, I've been playing Infra Arcana on the side. It's reminding me of Brogue for some reason, but having more fun (just dying endlessly) with it.

 

[WhiteShark]

Also, I've been playing Infra Arcana on the side. It's reminding me of Brogue for some reason, but having more fun (just dying endlessly) with it.

Glad you like it. Maybe it gives you a small Brogue feel because innate progression is just the traits you pick at level up. In my experience you never become a living god like some character types can in DCSS, so you pretty much have to be on your toes at all times. That's good design for a roguelike and fits the horror theme.

 

[xuerebx]

Also, I've been playing Infra Arcana on the side. It's reminding me of Brogue for some reason, but having more fun (just dying endlessly) with it.

Glad you like it. Maybe it gives you a small Brogue feel because innate progression is just the traits you pick at level up. In my experience you never become a living god like some character types can in DCSS, so you pretty much have to be on your toes at all times. That's good design for a roguelike and fits the horror theme.

Yes that's why it's reminding me of Brogue! However Brogue didn't really do it for me, whereas IA is pretty interesting. The setting and the sounds help as well.

This reminds me, the only drawback to some of these RLs is the lack of sound effects and music. For the latter I'm running Dungeon Synth on YouTube but not much can be done for the former.

 

[xuerebx]

It wasn't mentioned in the list, but Sil-Q (which is a sort of Angband derivative but quite different) is very very enjoyable. You don't level up, but you use the experience points to increase your stats or to "purchase" traits, which have stat and experience requirements. This can make each run very different (and believe me I've had over 40 runs now since I tend to die a lot) which increases the fun and replayability. What I especially like is that you can beat the game within 10 hours (I haven't yet) as there are around just 22 dungeon levels (as opposed to Angband's 100 levels).

I've also started ADOM on the side but still too early to comment. I'm liking it but it's very different from Sil-Q.

 

[xuerebx]

So, after 120 hours and around a month of quasi-daily playing, I finally beat ADOM (normal ending) with a ratling wizard. Had a blast, not sure if this is my favourite RL. Tried out different builds too before I settled on wizard. Now I've started playing Dungeons of Dredmor. Not 100% feeling it but it's growing on me. Still got a good back log and still need to beat Angband Sil-q variant which I need to go back to at some point.

Suffice to say, I'm addicted to this sub genre.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Best roguelike?

Maybe this:

It best embodies the real spirit of roguelikes.

 

[xuerebx]

Haha! No though, if it's just random chance I'd still be playing TOME4 which I started out last January. There is an element of RNG of course just like with many other RPGs, but it's more than that. You need to understand the ruleset, enemy weaknesses, synergies between skills, strategies for different locations and so on. Any time I just go with it without much thought I just end up dying, repeatedly.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Anybody who answered different than Vulture doesn't know anything about games.

 

[Tygrende]

Wish Pixel Dungeon was on the list, at least Shattered. It started out as a very good, brogue-inspired mobile game about 10 years ago. Since then it evolved into countless forks that improved over the original and are still being updated, Shattered being the most popular and imo best one. It's also on Steam and released on GOG recently. Still the only game I have on my phone, it doesn't feel like a mobile game at all.

 

[Skdursh]

Hard to give any one the title of "supreme roguelike" but the ones I have the most playtime in and still play at least semi-regularly are Cataclysm DDA/BN, Caves of Qud, ToME, Cogmind, DCSS, Infra Arcana, Zorbus, Warsim, DoomRL, Fear and Hunger 1/2 (gothic/Lovecraftian horror pseudo JRPG/RL hybrid), Low Magic Age, Elona+, Dwarf Fortress ADVENTURE MODE (seems luj1 doesn't realize DF does also have a traditional RL mode), Wayward, Stoneshard, Approaching Infinity and recently also been enjoying the Deadzoned demo.

There are also a number of others that I really enjoy that don't quite fit the stringent confines of a "traditional roguelike", but I'd definitely recommend people who are a fan of them and "hacking" to check out Deadeye Deepfake Simulacrum, which is a really interesting game.

 

[ind33d]

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