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KickStarter Poll - Best Tomb Raider

Which is in your opinion the best Tomb Raider game?


  • Total voters
    162

Neuromancer

Savant
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
781
At least try the real design instead:

1.jpg


Noone is talking about the ingame model.

Edit:
To be clear, I don't care about either Lara Croft model, because fetishising a fictitious video game character IMO is kind of retarded - and sad.
:negative:

But the fans of the first "Lara" certainly didn't have the blocky ingame model in mind.
 
Last edited:

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
4,741
Oh look yet another TR thread devolved into discussing the looks and sexuality of the main character when the original games had next to fuck all to do with that and were about the gameplay, character, adventure and atmosphere.
And of course some drunk cunt started it. :roll:

Imagine an alternate reality where girls actually played video games, and whenever Duke 3D or Doom discussion came up all they spoke about is the main characters looks? That's what you guys are doing, acting like goddamn women and it is annoying. What even is the point, what is there to discuss regarding a 3D model with just a few polygons, or some shit sexualised marketing art to trick the dweebs into buying it? Well, people fetishized even Sonic the hedgehog in droves. Fucking weirdos everywhere.

Classic Raider is classic because pretty good no retards allowed gameplay (of course SumDrunkGuy got filtered), moody atmosphere, grand sense of adventure, and a character way more interesting for her personality & athleticism than her deformed uncanny valley looks, all of which later games completely failed to live up to. It has a couple stand-out flaws like shit combat and some slow animations, but they were actual games not the mindless trash made for bottom of the barrel simpletons you get these days.
Anyone that thinks the new games obsolete them is clearly a fucking retard. Those games barely make average and are barely even the same genre. OK at best cover shooting, set-piece focused linearity & uncharted autopilot """platforming""" is so different it may as well be.
 
Last edited:

Machocruz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
3,792
Location
Hyperborea
The original TR was a big deal to me when it came out. I wasn't a PC enjoyer yet, and I hadn't stepped foot into 3D yet. Super Mario 64 had already come out, but since the theme and settings of TR appealed to me more than kiddy mushroom world shit, this was the real revelation to me of what could be done in 3D space in a console action/platformer. I saw the game being played and my brain responded "This is intriguing, this is important, there is something next level about this." I found games back then more replayable, maybe due to being more concise, and I played TR over and over again. Those were the days.

It was also a very immersive game for the time, full of mystery, foreboding, and ambiance. Superb use of lighting and level design to this end, where darkness or strategically placed geometry are used to obscure what lies ahead, conceal (then reveal) threats, and create unsure footing. I still think it has the most memorable levels in the entire series, which is why it wins out over 2, which is also a great classic TR.
 
Last edited:

SumDrunkGuy

Arcane
Shitposter
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
6,577
At least try the real design instead:

1.jpg


Noone is talking about the ingame model.

Edit:
To be clear, I don't care about either Lara Croft model, because fetishising a fictitious video game character IMO is kind of retarded - and sad

It looks like it suffers from the Zeta varient. There are a few decent to good women in gaming and they are all diseased shit in comparison to the true goddess:

CbSY6bzUYAQ1nBX.jpg


I would clean her feet with my tongue, as well as her anus. Whatever she needed. Lara is hardly special. Not even close.
 

kangaxx

Savant
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
850
Location
The Silver Shark


The sound design in OG TR was fantastic. As others have said, it produced a foreboding atmosphere.

Even the music was good. I remember the first time I played the Coliseum, the bit where you run up to arena and some mysterious music kicks in. Like Machocruz says it felt like the bar was being raised in real time.
 

Ed123

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
15,012
Location
banal
Serpent in the Staglands Wasteland 2
The blockiness in the game sequences of Tomb Raider 1 was only due to hardware limitations at that time (Tomb Raider 1 was first released on the Sega Saturn.). The same applies for the missing ponytail.

The movie sequences of Lara in Tomb Raider 1 aldready show her "well-rounded" and also with complete hair.
So, that was her supposed real look for Tomb Raider 1.

The sequels starting with Tomb Raider 2 remedied this problem altogether.

maxresdefault.jpg


Aw yea, sexy af bro. I could fap to that all day.

At least try the real design instead:

1.jpg


Noone is talking about the ingame model.

Edit:
To be clear, I don't care about either Lara Croft model, because fetishising a fictitious video game character IMO is kind of retarded - and sad.
:negative:

But the fans of the first "Lara" certainly didn't have the blocky ingame model in mind.

Oh look yet another TR thread devolved into discussing the looks and sexuality of the main character when the original games had next to fuck all to do with that and were about the gameplay, character, adventure and atmosphere.
And of course some drunk cunt started it. :roll:

Imagine an alternate reality where girls actually played video games, and whenever Duke 3D or Doom discussion came up all they spoke about is the main characters looks? That's what you guys are doing, acting like goddamn women and it is annoying. What even is the point, what is there to discuss regarding a 3D model with just a few polygons, or some shit sexualised marketing art to trick the dweebs into buying it? Well, people fetishized even Sonic the hedgehog in droves. Fucking weirdos everywhere.

Classic Raider is classic because pretty good no retards allowed gameplay (of course SumDrunkGuy got filtered), moody atmosphere, grand sense of adventure, and a character way more interesting for her personality & athleticism than her deformed uncanny valley looks, all of which later games completely failed to live up to. It has a couple stand-out flaws like shit combat and some slow animations, but they were actual games not the mindless trash made for bottom of the barrel simpletons you get these days.
Anyone that thinks the new games obsolete them is clearly a fucking retard. Those games barely make average and are barely even the same genre. OK at best cover shooting, set-piece focused linearity & uncharted autopilot """platforming""" is so different it may as well be.

As RPG Codex's leading authority on matters of c00merism, let me set the record straight:

Lara Croft/Laura Cruz was always designed as a highly sexualized, comic book bombshell-style character. Here are some of the earliest sketches done for Tomb Raider, mostly by Toby Gard himself:
efq1gUY.jpg
FqsWb5v.jpg

aVmlpbI.jpg

DkDirvQ.jpg
iCzS9BE.jpg

Two persistent myths (or half-truths) about Lara's sexualization are that

A: Toby Gard merely meant her to be "curvy" and "athletic" and not sexualized - that the latter was all Eidos' marketing department's doing,

and B: that Lara's in-game breast size was the result of a coder's error (one story) or Toby Gard's hand-slipped (another story floated about) and by the time anyone noticed it was too late to change because the game was already entering its final stages.

Despite coming from ex-Core staff (including Gard) neither of these stories hold water. First - as seen above - Toby Gard's original design always gave Lara a tiny waist, big boobs, and costumes that were either highly revealing or accentuated her body shape. In fact, of all the early concept art related to Lara, I'm only aware of two (the "anime" and "bandana" sketches) that aren't overtly sexual. Secondly, a couple of ex-Core staff have claimed Gard is bullshitting about being upset by Eidos sexualizing her, arguing he was actually just angry that the marketing department weren't listening to his ideas about poster designs and resented losing control of "his" baby. Thirdly, Gard's later female character designs (including the costume he designed for Tomb Raider: Legend) are also very sexual, displaying maximum cleavage/curves etc. Finally, Core's original design document and early renders all match Lara's later, very sexual design, and explicitly state that they're going to sell her as a "total babe" so that men will buy the game:


htllY0c.jpg

N93dnVk.jpg

In short, Lara was coomerbait from day 1, and the decline in videogame quality is DIRECTLY related to the decline of coomerbait character designs in games. FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
4,741
I think you misunderstood me. Of course she was designed in a sexualised manner, yet the end result was never actually sexy (though her voice acting kind of was) and it wasn't really what the game was about at all. That was mostly all (smart) marketing for teenagers & virgins. Marketing != the game itself. Now Duke Nukem 3D, THAT actually has sexual content worth talking about, and even then it once again isn't really what the game is about, and only a 1/5 of the levels even had that stuff.

Goddamn it we're all still talking about this stupid worthless shit. So...best level in a classic TR game guys? Jesus fuck that's tough. So many great levels. I guess I'll go with:

Lost Valley or St Francis Folly, TR1.
Venice or 40 Fathoms, TR2.
Any of the first 3 India levels or Lara's Home, TR3.
 
Last edited:

Ed123

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Messages
15,012
Location
banal
Serpent in the Staglands Wasteland 2
I think you misunderstood me. Of course she was designed in a sexualised manner, yet the end result was never actually sexy (though her voice acting kind of was) and it wasn't really what the game was about at all. That was mostly all (smart) marketing for teenagers & virgins. Marketing != the game itself. Now Duke Nukem 3D, THAT actually has sexual content worth talking about, and even then it once again isn't really what the game is about, and only a 1/5 of the levels even had that stuff.

Goddamn it we're all still talking about this stupid worthless shit. So...best level in a classic TR game guys? Jesus fuck that's tough. So many great levels. I guess I'll go with:

Lost Valley or St Francis Folly, TR1.
Venice or 40 Fathoms, TR2.
Any of the first 3 India levels, TR3.

The target demo for Tomb Raider was 18-24, hardly teenagers (maybe in Am*rica). The game itself has her running about in tight clothes to show off her T&A, especially in cutscenes, which can hardly be dismissed as "marketing". A game doesn't have to be literal porn to be sexy. I bet you think Planescape Torment's female character designs were "incidental".
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
4,741
stop talking about this stupid worthless shit that every TR discussion quickly devolves into. The old games deserve better. Yes she has character design intended to be sexy. Nothing wrong with that and it is sorely missed in todays games, but it simply wasn't what the game was about. The way internet discussion always goes it may have people thinking the game was an early 3D sleaze-fest which is not the case, and it really doesn't need to be an eternal discussion. You could replace Lara with some male generic bland Indiana Jones wannabe and it would hardly impact the appeal and value of the game. The cool cutscenes would be impacted, all six of them? And that's about it.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
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Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Who cares, in most of the TR games Lara isn't even barefoot :M

Meanwhile the level design is top notch, especially in TR1 and TR4, my favorites of the series. 2 is great too, and 3 is decent (but I like it the least of the first four games).
Chronicles is a tired cash-in and Angel of Darkness was a rushed buggy mess, sadly. Then the franchise went to Crystal Dynamics and they just didn't get it.
 

Biscotti

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
494
Location
Belgium
Who cares, in most of the TR games Lara isn't even barefoot :M

Meanwhile the level design is top notch, especially in TR1 and TR4, my favorites of the series. 2 is great too, and 3 is decent (but I like it the least of the first four games).
Chronicles is a tired cash-in and Angel of Darkness was a rushed buggy mess, sadly. Then the franchise went to Crystal Dynamics and they just didn't get it.

Surprised TR2 isn't your favorite for the ship wreck levels alone.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
29,945
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Who cares, in most of the TR games Lara isn't even barefoot :M

Meanwhile the level design is top notch, especially in TR1 and TR4, my favorites of the series. 2 is great too, and 3 is decent (but I like it the least of the first four games).
Chronicles is a tired cash-in and Angel of Darkness was a rushed buggy mess, sadly. Then the franchise went to Crystal Dynamics and they just didn't get it.

Surprised TR2 isn't your favorite for the ship wreck levels alone.

Favorite outfit, but not favorite levels.

Idk I just prefer the ancient locations to more modern ones and TR2 introduced several more modern areas.
 

Neuromancer

Savant
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
781
@Ed123: What's up with your rating?

Nothing I wrote really contradicts your postings.
I never said, she wasn't designed in a sexual way.

Still, the discussion, which model of what game is "the best" is rather silly IMO.
 

Neuromancer

Savant
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
781
Who cares, in most of the TR games Lara isn't even barefoot :M

Meanwhile the level design is top notch, especially in TR1 and TR4, my favorites of the series. 2 is great too, and 3 is decent (but I like it the least of the first four games).
Chronicles is a tired cash-in and Angel of Darkness was a rushed buggy mess, sadly. Then the franchise went to Crystal Dynamics and they just didn't get it.

Surprised TR2 isn't your favorite for the ship wreck levels alone.

Favorite outfit, but not favorite levels.

Idk I just prefer the ancient locations to more modern ones and TR2 introduced several more modern areas.
So you like the first area of Underworld?
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
29,945
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Who cares, in most of the TR games Lara isn't even barefoot :M

Meanwhile the level design is top notch, especially in TR1 and TR4, my favorites of the series. 2 is great too, and 3 is decent (but I like it the least of the first four games).
Chronicles is a tired cash-in and Angel of Darkness was a rushed buggy mess, sadly. Then the franchise went to Crystal Dynamics and they just didn't get it.

Surprised TR2 isn't your favorite for the ship wreck levels alone.

Favorite outfit, but not favorite levels.

Idk I just prefer the ancient locations to more modern ones and TR2 introduced several more modern areas.
So you like the first area of Underworld?

Honestly, I thought Underworld was a good game start to finish if you ignore the story. Decent puzzles and level design.

Too bad they decided to reboot the series after that.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
3,476
Location
Chicago, IL, Kwa
I've never played the original TR games, but I have them sitting in my GOG library. Anything I should know before giving them a try? I know the PSX was the primary platform at launch, does the game play better with a controller or m+kb? Also any needed mods?
 

kangaxx

Savant
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
850
Location
The Silver Shark
Goddamn it we're all still talking about this stupid worthless shit. So...best level in a classic TR game guys? Jesus fuck that's tough. So many great levels. I guess I'll go with:

Lost Valley or St Francis Folly, TR1.
Venice or 40 Fathoms, TR2.
Any of the first 3 India levels or Lara's Home, TR3.

For me, all of the Greece levels in OG TR.

Opera House and 40 Fathoms in the second one.

London levels in the third, although they had some infuriating sequences from memory.

Alexandria/coastal ruin levels in TR4, as well as some of the actual "tomb" levels (e.g. Semerkhet, which I found unnerving). TR4 was underrated IMO.
 

Neuromancer

Savant
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
781
I've never played the original TR games, but I have them sitting in my GOG library. Anything I should know before giving them a try? I know the PSX was the primary platform at launch, does the game play better with a controller or m+kb? Also any needed mods?
For a long time, the first Tomb Raider was a little bit of a pain to run on modern Windows with full 3D effects and even then, texture poppings etc. were quite common on PC.

Luckily a few years ago, someone made a wrapper for the only Windows port of Tomb Raider 1 made for some obscure ATI graphic card.

Here is a very easy to use installer:
https://www.glidos.net/tombati.html

You might also download the higher quality videos taken from the PSX version.


For your first run, I wouldn't recommend to download the extra texture packs, though.
You get a more authentic experience without them.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
29,945
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
I've never played the original TR games, but I have them sitting in my GOG library. Anything I should know before giving them a try? I know the PSX was the primary platform at launch, does the game play better with a controller or m+kb? Also any needed mods?

I mean, I play everything with m&kb and absolutely cannot stand controllers, but the keyboard controls are perfectly fine even for someone who's less of a m&kb fanatic.

No mouse, though. TR is keyboard only. The tank controls work fine with the arrow keys.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
4,741
I've never played the original TR games, but I have them sitting in my GOG library. Anything I should know before giving them a try? I know the PSX was the primary platform at launch, does the game play better with a controller or m+kb? Also any needed mods?

When people assume 90s games are "bad" or dated because old, TR is a game that would give their argument some weight. They'd be wrong of course because it is a fantastic game and way more worthwhile than 95% of games made since the 2000s, but it is early 3D and shows (though I still very much like the look at times), the combat is auto aim shit however is not the focus and not mindless regardless as it has the unique aspect of acrobatics and trying not to fall to your fucking death, and some of the animations are pretty fucking slow (climbing, pushing blocks). The controls will take some getting used to, but they actually work well with the game's 64x64 grid base, platforming and acrobatics, eventually you will be thinking in "blocks" and will know precisely if you can make that jump based on how many blocks there are, and what inputs you need to press (backstep = moves 1 block backwards. Running jump = requires one block run-up and covers 3 blocks distance w/grab). The draw distance is also very limited but this is actually INTEGRAL to the experience. It alone creates so much mystery and tension, as it did in all classic early 3D.

All this aside, I totally recommend it. The level design in particular is fucking solid GOLD. It's the 90s, you can't go wrong. Trust in old devs, even if there are caveats. As for mods, probably just technical stuff. I've looked for gameplay-enhancing mods (e.g better combat would be nice) but there isn't any to my knowledge.
 

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