World of Darkness Poll: Greatest computer RPG development studios of all time.

[Alex]

Which part is not true Grauken ? Liking/disliking their games aside,it is how they died out. Dwindling interest in their games and lack of creativeness.

Actually, I would argue it was mostly about the industry becoming so that games had to be more costly endeavours. Greater focus on graphics, story and whatnot made following the same design ideas of P&P modules not economically workable.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Sir-Tech's last two games were Jagged Alliance 2 and Wizardry 8. If you think those games display a lack of creativity you're an incurable moron.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

I find it interesting that so many people think that a developer who put out just three games that are all not just fundamentally flawed, but are in fact practically broken without having to install huge patches the dev didn't even put out themselves .. is apparently le best RPG dev of all time? Alright then.

 

[Grauken]

Which part is not true Grauken ? Liking/disliking their games aside,it is how they died out. Dwindling interest in their games and lack of creativeness.

They died because the game public changed from niche players to common morons and Sir-Tech never made games for morons

 

[octavius]

Watching MattChat's interviews with one of the Siroteks and Brenda Romero, and reading Cleve's stories about Sir-Tech makes me not want to vote for Sir-Tech, despite the overall high quality of their games.

Who cares?
That's exactly what the steamtard brigade did to Grimoire through bad reviews.

I decided you are right, so I changed my vote.

 

[fantadomat]

Which part is not true Grauken ? Liking/disliking their games aside,it is how they died out. Dwindling interest in their games and lack of creativeness.

Actually, I would argue it was mostly about the industry becoming so that games had to be more costly endeavours. Greater focus on graphics, story and whatnot made following the same design ideas of P&P modules not economically workable.

Well that is pretty much what stagnation is,inability to adapt to the changing market. I don't think that it was just about money and graphics. They just lacked the creative force to improve,most likely because of the corporate nature of promotions. Most people have one or two good creative ideas in their life and then they dry up. In most cases they get promoted because of it and end up protecting their place by pushing away more creative people from the lower ends. Thus the company stagnates and eventually falls apart. You could see that in most other companies.

For example SSi,pushed out panzer general i believe,that sold pretty well and was liked by the audience,but its gameplay was lacking and simple. Instead of trying to improve on it and make a better game,they just pushed a few more copies of it and people just stop buying it. Saturation is not a good thing,especially when your market is niche.

Sir-Tech's last two games were Jagged Alliance 2 and Wizardry 8. If you think those games display a lack of creativity you're an incurable moron.

Well the end result is obvious weirdo rando. I don't care about both of those games,wiz8 is pretty much slow tedious garbage that i wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy,while JA2 is a mediocre tactical hybrid. That said i would give it props for being original at the time and something refreshing,but the story was clearly and off putting.

 

[fantadomat]

Which part is not true Grauken ? Liking/disliking their games aside,it is how they died out. Dwindling interest in their games and lack of creativeness.

They died because the game public changed from niche players to common morons and Sir-Tech never made games for morons

As i said,stagnation and lack of creativity,you are just repeating me with butthurt words .

 

[Strange Fellow]

Not making games for morons equals stagnation and lack of creativity in the mind of fantadomat. Big surprise.

 

[fantadomat]

Not making games for morons equals stagnation and lack of creativity in the mind of fantadomat. Big surprise.

It means death to your shitty company and being forgotten in a few decades. Begone old man,you smell of piss and vinegar,the world have no time for your empty bitterness!

 

[Strange Fellow]

Not making games for morons equals stagnation and lack of creativity in the mind of fantadomat. Big surprise.

It means death to your shitty company and being forgotten in a few decades. Begone old man,you smell of piss and vinegar,the world have no time for your empty bitterness!

Yeah I know, I see how happy morons are all the time, but sadly I don't have it in me to become one.

 

[samuraigaiden]

Actually, Sir-Tech died by way of extreme mismanagement. It takes nothing away from the greatness of their games.

 

[Alex]

Which part is not true Grauken ? Liking/disliking their games aside,it is how they died out. Dwindling interest in their games and lack of creativeness.

Actually, I would argue it was mostly about the industry becoming so that games had to be more costly endeavours. Greater focus on graphics, story and whatnot made following the same design ideas of P&P modules not economically workable.

Well that is pretty much what stagnation is,inability to adapt to the changing market.

Ability to "adapt to changing market" and ability to make a good, creative game are two completely distinct things.

I don't think that it was just about money and graphics. They just lacked the creative force to improve,most likely because of the corporate nature of promotions. Most people have one or two good creative ideas in their life and then they dry up. In most cases they get promoted because of it and end up protecting their place by pushing away more creative people from the lower ends. Thus the company stagnates and eventually falls apart. You could see that in most other companies.

You could clearly see lack of creativity in the companies that survived as well, but that didn't stop them.

For example SSi,pushed out panzer general i believe,that sold pretty well and was liked by the audience,but its gameplay was lacking and simple. Instead of trying to improve on it and make a better game,they just pushed a few more copies of it and people just stop buying it. Saturation is not a good thing,especially when your market is niche.
(snip...)

Panzer General is itself basically a complex wargame. I am, unfortunately, unsure of its exact origins. But nevertheless I wouldn't want to see that kind of genre spoiled because people wanted innovation.

 

[King Crispy]

Cleve killed Sir-Tech.

With his bare hands.

 

[fantadomat]

Ability to "adapt to changing market" and ability to make a good, creative game are two completely distinct things.

Ahh it is a bit of a subjective thing,depends on the person judging it. But generally i do agree. Creativity and competence is not assured success. Many good and creative games go under the radar and achieve nothing. That said,dead companies can't make any types of games. You have to survive on the market to make good games.

You could clearly see lack of creativity in the companies that survived as well, but that didn't stop them.

I agree,and in due time most likely they will fail. Ubisoft is already going down the drain from what i have seen. It is not an instant process,i am sure that there were people leading the same conversation during the lifetime of sirtech and ssi.

Panzer General is itself basically a complex wargame. I am, unfortunately, unsure of its exact origins. But nevertheless I wouldn't want to see that kind of genre spoiled because people wanted innovation.

Ahh i wouldn't call it complex,to me it seems pretty rudimentary tactical turn based strategy game. It all depends to what you compare it,if you compare it to call of duty and mario games,yeah it is complex. If you compare it to an actual complex game like aurora 4x ,then it is a joke.

That was ssi problem,they have like 20 games like panzer general,just different settings. That is people just got tired and moved on.

Innovation doesn't mean dumbing down,tho a lot of the times it is . Both the tactical strategy genre and 4x genre had stagnated a lot,they release the same games over and over again,it had become tiresome. That is why i want more new things in it,i want to see more complexity and new system,not just the same shit. All the tactical strategy games like panzer general are pretty much the same mathematics,you hit and you get hit back,you make a breakthrough and starve a bunch of enemies from supplies. It lacks any tactics,builds,strategy etc etc,it is all the same.

 

[otteaux]

New World Computing. The run of MM 3 to MM 8 will never be topped. I'd even consider throwing MM 2 in there. All killer no filler.

 

[mediocrepoet]

This was actually a tougher poll than I'd have figured. There were several studios I would've considered more (like Sierra and Microprose) if it wasn't specifically an RPG poll. So I'm actually glad for the scope limitation.

I chose SSI since they were able to produce many classics and also demonstrate that in RPGs, particularly, you don't necessarily need to change engines or the housing of your game each time, just produce quality content.

Troika produced three great games that were each very different. People may not like all of them, but most people love at least one or two of them and admit that they're flawed gems.

Black Isle produced many classic games that have impacted the genre to this day in many ways.

Honourable mentions: Sir-Tech, New World Computing, Origin Systems - each of these companies helped establish the foundations of the genre and have inspired developers in ways that can be seen in various games even now.

 

[toro]

Black Isle, Piranha Bytes and LGS

Black Isle vote is also a vote for Troika

 

[Dorateen]

New World Computing. The run of MM 3 to MM 8 will never be topped. I'd even consider throwing MM 2 in there. All killer no filler.

In addition to the launch of the Heroes of Might & Magic series. Not many studios could pull off quality role-playing games as well as strategy games, blended so well. That's why I would put NWC up there with SSI and Sir-Tech.

 

[Serus]

Sir-Tech, is it even a contest?

Panzer General is itself basically a complex wargame. I am, unfortunately, unsure of its exact origins. But nevertheless I wouldn't want to see that kind of genre spoiled because people wanted innovation.

Panzer General is by no means "complex" for a wargame. Even more so because... it isn't even a "wargame" at all. Wargame is a specific genres that assumes some level of simulation of the battlefield. Panzer General was sold a "strategy game" for a reason. It is a game with rather abstract ruleset which is very loosely tied to reality. More like a more complicated version of scissor rock paper.
Great game though, I absolutely loved it in the 90s.

 

[Fenris 2.0]

Oh well, Attic and Thalion were good, but Troika was just another Level. I miss them (and ReLine - these poor fuckers stopped making Soft-Porn Games for Hardcore-RPGs, and it killed them).

ReLine Games:
Legend of Faerghail
Fate - Gates of Dawn

 

[Sweeper]

This was a tough one. Obviously Troika and Black Isles are no contest.
I've played Might and Magic 6, it was okay. Wizardry is better. But I ended up voting for New World Computing instead of Sir-Tech cause of Heroes 3... Despite it not being an RPG.
Then I remembered JA2 and changed my vote accordingly. Sorry NWC.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Troika best trifecta
ITS and Stygian haven't let me down yet

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I only voted for one, and to me it's Strategic Simulations Inc (SSI):

Al-Qadim: The Genie's Curse
Alien Logic
Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday
Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed
*Champions of Krynn
*Curse of the Azure Bonds
*Dark Legions
*Dark Sun: Shattered Lands
Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager
*Death Knights of Krynn
Deathkeep
Demon's Winter
Dragon's of Flame
Dragonstrike
*Dungeon Hack
Eye of the Beholder
Eye of the Beholder 2
Eye of the Beholder 3
Fantasy Empires
*Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures
*Gateway to the Savage Frontier
Gemstone Warrior
Heroes of the Lance
Hillsfar
Legends of Valor (technological pre-cursor of the first Elder Scrolls game)
Menzoberranzan
Neverwinter Nights
*Phantasie
*Phantasie 2
*Phantasie 3
*Pool of Radiance
*Pools of Darkness
Prophecy of the Shadow
Questron
Questron 2
Ravenloft: Stone Prophet
Ravenloft: Strahd's Possession
Realms of Darkness
Rings of Zilfin
*Secret of the Silver Blades
Shadow Sorcerer
Shard of Spring
Spelljammer: Pirates of Realmspace
Star Command
Stronghold
*Sword of Aragon
*The Dark Queen of Krynn
The Eternal Dagger
The Summoning
*Treasures of the Savage Frontier
Veil of Darkness
War of the Lance
Warlords: Battlecry
* Wizard's Crown
World of Aden: Entomorph
World of Aden: Thunderscape
* Confirmed gems I've played. Others I have either not played or felt were only good for their time or meh.

So I will always praise the accomplishments of RPG credentials of SSI, especially in the late 80s. Those who share this opinion of SSI will always be my brothers... even Crispy .

 

[Ismaul]

1. Pirahna Bytes

Then it gets hard.

Voted Black Isle and Troika, but Looking Glass is great, and I expect after the release of Colony Ship Iron Tower will be up there too.

 

[HoboForEternity]

no nihon falcom joke poll