Preparing for 2nd playthrough of PS:T

[Undead Phoenix]

Clue is in the title. As I think a sufficient amount of time has passed since I first played through Planescape: Torment and the dire lack of good story driven RPGs recently, I'm reckoning on having a 2nd playthrough of this little gem. Now, since I want to vary this from before, I have a few questions to ask the Codex:

1) What mods should I use?
Ghostdog's graphics whore mods shall be put to good use in making Sigil pretty, but are there any lesser known mods or content-restorations that are worth installing?

2) What party should I take?
I haven't had Nordom or Vhailor before, who should I drop in order to take them? Who has the most interesting dialogue with them?

3) Question of alignment?
Is it fun playing through the game as a smug, elitist bastard? Or is there another way to get the most laughs without being a stuck-up goody two-shoes?

 

[Sceptic]

1) What mods should I use?

If you've already played it, there's no harm in using Qwinn's fixpack and restoration pack. The fixpack especially changes some annoying things that really weren't bugs (like TNO gaining different HP depending on class - I don't care what the manual says, this was clearly no bug). But all the restorations are putting back things that were already in the game, so it's Black Isle-level content.

2) What party should I take?

One of Qwinn's mods (tweak pack I think) has an optional component to "send Nordom back to Sigil". Install it. After getting everything out of Ignus (the new spells), drop him there and then. Go get Nordom. When you find Vhailor, send Nordom back to Sigil (this is not a restoration and the dialog is all Qwinn's but it's bloody useful to have). Take Vhailor with you, and be sure to have him close by at all times in Baator (alternatively, you can have an... interesting discussion with him before that). Then you can pick up Nordom back in Sigil. The final dungeon definitely assumes Nordom is in your party (and he has a couple of poignant scene involving him).

3) Question of alignment?

As a smug bastard? not so much. As a complete monster? depends on your definition of "fun". I personally couldn't do it - some of the options are evil. And not in a "kick a defenseless puppy" way.

 

[ironyuri]

Hey, probably a stupid question- was Qwinn, the PST modder, also the Qwinn who posted here?

~Qwinn


RE: OP

I'd take Nordom, he's always great value. I've never taken Vhailor, but I always play roughly chaotic neutral incarnation.

Take Vhailor if you're lawful and have alot of wisdom/int/char (same for all npcs really).

I've never really liked Ignus, but I rarely play a mage, or evil. So...


Anyway, it's up to you. Try to play through with all different npcs.

There's a fixpack so you can take Vhailor without losing any npcs, I think if you have modron cube it sends Nordom to the maze so you can pick him up again without him being forever lost.

Remember Vhailor is only available late in game and you might need to have someone around during that time because enemies get harder.


~Qwinn

 

[Sceptic]

Hey, probably a stupid question- was Qwinn, the PST modder, also the Qwinn who posted here?

One and the same. Your abuse of the signature makes me think you've already seen the explosive thread in which he left forever.

There's a fixpack so you can take Vhailor without losing any npcs, I think if you have modron cube it sends Nordom to the maze so you can pick him up again without him being forever lost.

Yep, that's the mod I mentioned, but it's in the tweak pack, not the fixpack.

Remember Vhailor is only available late in game and you might need to have someone around during that time because enemies get harder.

I've played through that part of the game both with Nordom and the usual suspects minus Nordom (no Ignus in both cases). And on my 5-man party (expanded to full with Vhailor, whom I kept to the end) TNO was a mage. It wasn't excessively hard (though one the fights in the prison gave me a hard-ish time). It's PST though, combat is never that hard.

 

[LusciousPear]

I don't remember an poignant endscene with Nordom. Anyone got a link I can read?

That game still makes me weep.

 

[Sceptic]

I don't remember an poignant endscene with Nordom.

First one:

Spoiler

You wish harm upon one who has aided Nordom at cost to his selves. Nordom will attempt to stop you. Prospect of success: slight.

Second one:

Spoiler

The issue no longer equals total logic

and everything else in that conversation.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Hey, probably a stupid question- was Qwinn, the PST modder, also the Qwinn who posted here?

~Qwinn


RE: OP

I'd take Nordom, he's always great value. I've never taken Vhailor, but I always play roughly chaotic neutral incarnation.

Take Vhailor if you're lawful and have alot of wisdom/int/char (same for all npcs really).

I've never really liked Ignus, but I rarely play a mage, or evil. So...


Anyway, it's up to you. Try to play through with all different npcs.

There's a fixpack so you can take Vhailor without losing any npcs, I think if you have modron cube it sends Nordom to the maze so you can pick him up again without him being forever lost.

Remember Vhailor is only available late in game and you might need to have someone around during that time because enemies get harder.


~Qwinn

Trouble with Ignus is, in part, that they didn't flesh out the spellcaster shield spells and AI as well as BG2. Not that I'd normally cite a combat problem in a game that de-emphasises combat, but it's kind of crucial to his character that he's supposed to be uber-powerful. At least in his end-game form.

There's also some awesome dialogues with him if you're a mage, and willing to sacrifice some body-parts, as well as investigating his history with one of the earlier TNO incarnations. But it gets cut off too early - Ignus and Vhalior simply aren't as well-fleshed out as other characters. They have great starting templates, great initial conversation options and great backstory-relation-to-TNO, but they don't progress like the other characters. They reek of 'I was added late' which is a real pity given that they play a major role in the end game. There's certainly no equivalent of the many many Morte and Dakkon revelations.


The only thing I found interesting about Ignus is the question of which incarnation 'made' him. It has to be one of the ones that lived long enough to become ultra-powerful, and the obvious guess is the practical incarnation - so obvious that you even get a conversation option asking him about Ignus. To which he denies any involvement. Doesn't actually reveal anything, but I always took it to hint that maybe it was the 'good' incarnation - before he reformed - that Ignus is describing. There's certainly nothing close to a confirmation of it. But it seems like an odd question to put at that part of the game - like the writer wouldn't have thought to put the dialogue option there unless it was supposed to hint at something significant. And if so, it's the closest thing you get in the game to a direct description of the original incarnation in his 'evil' days.


I'd say if you're playing good, take Ignus for a while for r-p reasons, and to investigate his backstory, then dump him for Nordom (they fulfill the same role as very rare ranged support, and hence can be more powerful than their stats would appear - especially Nordom).

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

The evil options are pretty damn evil and make the game and particularly the ending rather unsatisfying. I did an evil playthrough a few years back and by game's end I entered the fortress of shadows alone, having betrayed, murdered, enslaved, and sacrificed all of my companions. I suppose you really get the sense that the TNO is a damned soul by the end of it all, but mostly you just feel like a scumbag. All proof of Augustine's comment that sin is its own punishment, I guess.

Do it if you want to see what real evil options look like in an RPG -- as opposed to "I will save the princess, for DOUBLE the offered reward" -- but don't expect to feel very satisfied with TNO's story under such circumstances.

 

[SCO]

Hey, probably a stupid question- was Qwinn, the PST modder, also the Qwinn who posted here?

~Qwinn


RE: OP

I'd take Nordom, he's always great value. I've never taken Vhailor, but I always play roughly chaotic neutral incarnation.

Take Vhailor if you're lawful and have alot of wisdom/int/char (same for all npcs really).

I've never really liked Ignus, but I rarely play a mage, or evil. So...


Anyway, it's up to you. Try to play through with all different npcs.

There's a fixpack so you can take Vhailor without losing any npcs, I think if you have modron cube it sends Nordom to the maze so you can pick him up again without him being forever lost.

Remember Vhailor is only available late in game and you might need to have someone around during that time because enemies get harder.


~Qwinn

Trouble with Ignus is, in part, that they didn't flesh out the spellcaster shield spells and AI as well as BG2. Not that I'd normally cite a combat problem in a game that de-emphasises combat, but it's kind of crucial to his character that he's supposed to be uber-powerful. At least in his end-game form.

There's also some awesome dialogues with him if you're a mage, and willing to sacrifice some body-parts, as well as investigating his history with one of the earlier TNO incarnations. But it gets cut off too early - Ignus and Vhalior simply aren't as well-fleshed out as other characters. They have great starting templates, great initial conversation options and great backstory-relation-to-TNO, but they don't progress like the other characters. They reek of 'I was added late' which is a real pity given that they play a major role in the end game. There's certainly no equivalent of the many many Morte and Dakkon revelations.


The only thing I found interesting about Ignus is the question of which incarnation 'made' him. It has to be one of the ones that lived long enough to become ultra-powerful, and the obvious guess is the practical incarnation - so obvious that you even get a conversation option asking him about Ignus. To which he denies any involvement. Doesn't actually reveal anything, but I always took it to hint that maybe it was the 'good' incarnation - before he reformed - that Ignus is describing. There's certainly nothing close to a confirmation of it. But it seems like an odd question to put at that part of the game - like the writer wouldn't have thought to put the dialogue option there unless it was supposed to hint at something significant. And if so, it's the closest thing you get in the game to a direct description of the original incarnation in his 'evil' days.


I'd say if you're playing good, take Ignus for a while for r-p reasons, and to investigate his backstory, then dump him for Nordom (they fulfill the same role as very rare ranged support, and hence can be more powerful than their stats would appear - especially Nordom).

Never even crossed my mind that it was practical. He is described in the flashbacks as a fighter, and far too recent nevertheless. Deionarra father is still alive after all. That's why i was suspicious when i encountered the dialog.

The reekwind story about ignus, tells us that he studied with a mage that "danced sorcery with Lum the mad", that was character in the Greyhawk setting.

There was some kind of apparent contradiction about this story and that NO being the "first" that i forgot meanwhile.