President of MMOG Currency Seller Grilled

[Sol Invictus]

Yes, most of us hate those assholes who sell in-game money for real life currency. It undermines the spirit of the game and is in fact, copyright infringement. You shouldn't be able to sell things that don't belong to you - and MMOG characters don't belong to the players. They're on lease, and you pay 10-15 dollars a month to play. So why should secondary markets (e.g. the online in-game money market) profit from this?

I spotted this one on Slashdot:

The interview on Okratas we mentioned yesterday was mostly funny. Game currency seller IGE responded to the honest (if ham fisted) questions of a reporter with harsh marketroid speak. A reporter at Warcry responded with his own reactions, expressing publicly some of the distaste the average MMOG player has for IGE. Since then threads started last week in various online communities have started to appear on online news sites, shedding some more light on uncomfortable realities about IGE. Namely, that the currency seller apparently owns gaming media outlet OGaming. Read on for more.

http://www.okratas.com/modules.php?op=m ... =0&thold=0

 

[Sol Invictus]

WarCry wrote an editorial to comment on the whole issue:
http://www.warcry.com/scripts/columns/v ... colid=6411

This is somewhat ironic, considering that the WarCry Network received a lot of sponsorship from an MMOG currency seller a few years back in the form of advertisements.

 

[DarkSign]

cheat
v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats
v. tr.

1. To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases.
2. To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land.
3. To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye.
4. To elude; escape: cheat death.


v. intr.

4. To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
5. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.
6. Informal. To be sexually unfaithful: cheat on a spouse.

Ok. Buying in-game currency online is cheating by the dictionary.com definition.

But the WarCry article guy is full of shit. He tries to make his little Monopoly analogy which is highly flawed....the whine and cry that it is valid. Bullshit.

Sure. Buying in-game money with real money does several things:
a) it can change the in-game economy in vast ways that players who dont do it are forced to live with. See definition #5 and in spirit #1

but it also fits definition #4 which is to escape or elude. And by elude I mean bypass the grinding and treadmilling of these boring ass games.

I feel sorry for people who dont by online items or currency. If you want to waste your life playing the BAD parts of games, be my guest but you know going in that it happens...so dont whine about it. In a perfect world we wouldnt NEED to do it.

Thats my story and Im stickin to it.

 

[Ortchel]

 

[Sol Invictus]

Yes, it's rather ironic that WarCry STILL hosts banners like those.

 

[Fez]

Warcry: biting the hand that feeds them.

If they had any deceny they'd have at least removed them from rotation when putting that article up. What a bunch of morons.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I know some MMO gamers who boycott that site specifically because it runs on sponsorship by those online money sellers.

 

[dojoteef]

I feel sorry for people who dont by online items or currency. If you want to waste your life playing the BAD parts of games, be my guest but you know going in that it happens...so dont whine about it. In a perfect world we wouldnt NEED to do it.

Thats my story and Im stickin to it.

Does that mean the MMOG idea that you have would be different in this case? If so, how?


NOTE: I've never played a MMOG so I do not have a firm understanding of these debates. It's also why I haven't partaken in your discussion regarding MMOG Endgames, because I don't honestly even know what that means.

 

[Ortchel]

Let me try to convey what he's saying. When you begin a game of Star Wars Galaxies you've got 2000 credits. A decent set of armor is going to cost you about 100k, a weapon, somewhere between 15 and 20k, a speederbike, which is essential to get anywhere, costs 15k, swoops (which most everyone wants) cost 25k, bikes lose quality all the time and need to be repaired every few hours, costing about 5k each time it goes in the shop, then you've got travel between planets (which you do a lot of) which costs an average of 1k. Solo missions at start pay about 800 credits and take on average ten minutes to complete. You do the math.

It's virtually impossible to get anywhere without literally begging others for money. It's not pretty, and no one likes to admit to it, but the only other way is to buy them online. Mind you, I never did that, but I certainly see why others would.

 

[Astromarine]

See, that's what I don't get. all that stuff you mentioned that costs so much is not supposed to be yours at the beginning of the game. You are supposed to have fun killing correctly-sized monsters with correctly-sized equipment. If your MMO doesn't provide fun in those levels, what the HELL makes you think that when you are bigger, killing correctly-sized monsters with correctly-sized equipment will suddenly become fun? I mean, you're doing the EXACT same thing, only with all numbers multiplied by 10.

I'm playing WoW at the moment. I know it's been lambasted pretty harshly here, but I'm not you, and this site is not a hive-mind. I'm CURRENTLY having fun, with a Dwarf Hunter level 14. All my stuff is for my level, doesn't sell for crap, and is powerful enough to kill the monsters that I have available to me. Every time I pick up a marginally-better item, I become marginally better, and derive satisfaction form the fact that I can destroy critters that scared me a few levels before. The environments rock, the quests provide some variety, shooting people with humongous guns while my bear lets his teeth take care of business is cool... Why would I want to bypass all of that just to get equipment SO good that everything becomes a cakewalk until level 60? It makes no sense.

If I WASN'T having fun at low levels, though, I would just quit (and will do so when this happens). I wouldn't delude myself that there was a magical point, defined by having a "60" in a database somewhere, where all the fun that is owed to me by the game would come rushing in. That's basic stupidity at work.

 

[Balor]

Isn't there a way to loan money in MMOGs?
After all, that's how you get started in RL.
Of cource, you'll have to pay off interest, but I guess that's more fair then using RL money to buy stuff.

 

[Fez]

Just play as a female and you get free money from geeks. I swear it works.

 

[Ortchel]

Not at all, Astromarine. Obviously you haven't played SWG. Without decent armor there is massive downtime after every fight, roughly five minutes or so of sitting waiting for health to regenerate. Without a speeder it will take an additional ten minutes just to walk to your mission. Without a decent weapon you'd be lucky if you can complete the missions at all without assitance. The only negligable expense that I mentioned is travel, you could stay on the starting planet forever if you were so inclined.

I don't doubt that flawless World of Warcraft is newbie friendly, but don't assume that all MMOs are. I'm about the most forgiving, least power-gaming-inclined player you could come across. I can assure you it's painful, even to the patient. Having said that, the game does become (more) fun once you get the basics secured. I should note that I'm only speaking from memory and I did quit, I quit after less than a month.

 

[DarkSign]

Ortch has hit the nail on the head.

Now we all realize that part of the fun is working towards a goal. Im not so "gimme gimme gimme" that I have to have everything now. I have a wife for god's sake.

But in all the games to date there has been such a grind (especially at higher levels) that the games arent that much fun at the top. Agreed this is a problem. So instead of grinding through all that people will buy currency to buy the fun items and gear that help them power up to go do some of the more fun activities. Its not just a change by a power of 10. WHen you get to a higher level you can PK, you can go on raids...there is entirely different content. That includes in WoW.

Yes, in my game, I want to avoid that. I want to make the skill usage (no levels) pretty fast...but worth earning too. Im bringing in a unified group of varied playstyles (see PART TWO thread for the whole list) ...and the hope is that players would rather play in game than buy.

But let me make 2 points.

#1 My game will have gambling (poker and blackjack) so technically one could play poker in the game...make in-game money and sell it. Talk about a strange career. Since there will be betting on vehicle driving you could do the same with that.

#2 Im actually considering having an escrow system thats got the imprimatur of the game itself. You go to a website and so does your buyer. You put up an item or an account, they check the price and quality...etc and the game makes a flat fee + %.

To put it another way, people buy money and accounts for the same reason Ex complains about the games. In a perfect world you wouldnt need to skip to the good stuff, but since MMOs arent 100% fun, people do.

 

[DarkSign]

Isn't there a way to loan money in MMOGs?
After all, that's how you get started in RL.
Of cource, you'll have to pay off interest, but I guess that's more fair then using RL money to buy stuff.

LOL. Great idea! Loan sharking. If you dont pay the NPC loan shark you get hunted down, imprisoned (and your guild has to break you out or you fight out), or something else.

Woot! Nnnnovative idea.

@ Fez: youre totally right. I have a friend who only plays the sexiest females so that the ubah-geeks lend him money and items. GEeze. what a maroon!

 

[Hajo]

@ Fez: youre totally right. I have a friend who only plays the sexiest females so that the ubah-geeks lend him money and items. GEeze. what a maroon!

These are the moments when I hate this world.

 

[Fez]

It's pretty easy too, and requires no effort to pretend other than an avatar and you will get all sorts of goodies. I even told a guy once that I was just pretending to be a female because I was starting to feel guilty, and he said he'd rather just keep pretending because it felt better. :shock:

I guess I am doing a public service for those who cannot find a female to talk to.

 

[Tiliqua]

A big part of the fun of a mmo or any game for that matter is the journey. I have the opportunity to take over an account of an established Eve account, 20mil skill pts etc. What would be the point? I'd have skills I wouldn't know how to use, I wouldn't have the thrill of achievement etc.

In SWG I started as a raw character and eventually became a kick arse crafter. No matter what flaws SWG has, I still have a sense of accomplishment and pride from doing it myself, buying money etc from Ebay would just ruin that feeling.

I know many D&D players actually prefer the lower level character adventures. People who feel they've got to have the best straight away are doing themselves a disservice

 

[Avé]

A big part of the fun of a mmo or any game for that matter is the journey. I have the opportunity to take over an account of an established Eve account, 20mil skill pts etc. What would be the point? I'd have skills I wouldn't know how to use, I wouldn't have the thrill of achievement etc.

In SWG I started as a raw character and eventually became a kick arse crafter. No matter what flaws SWG has, I still have a sense of accomplishment and pride from doing it myself, buying money etc from Ebay would just ruin that feeling.

I know many D&D players actually prefer the lower level character adventures. People who feel they've got to have the best straight away are doing themselves a disservice

Can I have that eve account?

Had 5 accounts, and achieved everything on them all :D

 

[DarkSign]

What would be the point?

Well most people... who arent like you and realize that the love of your character and his change over time is a PROCESS....would say that they want the feeling of power in the game and to get to play the high-lvl part of the game.

They bolster this with the fact that grinding up to that level isnt fun and buying their way to the top lets them focus on the fun.

Some of the most fun Ive ever had was leveling up characters with friends...helping them and them helping me. So I can see it both ways.

...sigh. I hate seeing it both ways.

 

[Avé]

What would be the point?

Well most people... who arent like you and realize that the love of your character and his change over time is a PROCESS....would say that they want the feeling of power in the game and to get to play the high-lvl part of the game.

They bolster this with the fact that grinding up to that level isnt fun and buying their way to the top lets them focus on the fun.

Some of the most fun Ive ever had was leveling up characters with friends...helping them and them helping me. So I can see it both ways.

...sigh. I hate seeing it both ways.

The most joy/fun/achievement is the very first time.

The second time, you've learned tricks, and methods of levelling up/gaining items faster.

The third time, even more so.

btw, my eve history is:

Bought 2 copies at retail(may 2003), my brother bought 1 as well.
Friend buys 1 copy to play with us.

4 months later my friend and brother have quit, and I'm bored.

Sell the stuff off my 2 accounts + my brothers, and let a friend use our accounts.(+€900 to me)

7 Months later come back, takeover my friends account, and play for 5 months.
Buy a second account with ISK(in game currency) and use that as well.

Sell two accounts for €800

Net gain: around €1480 for playing a game(and not grinding for cash/items)

 

[Country_Gravy]

The most joy/fun/achievement is the very first time.

The second time, you've learned tricks, and methods of levelling up/gaining items faster.

The third time, even more so.

Wait a minute. Are we talking about gaming or sex?

 

[Fez]

Combine the two well and you might have the next big seller.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Or not. Most online teenage girls are fat old men.

 

[Tiliqua]

Or not. Most online teenage girls are fat old men.

That's only true for codex, on all other sites they are nymphos, just waiting to meet fellow posters.