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Development Info Project Eternity Kickstarter Update #39: Classes, Cooldowns, Attacks, Damage vs. Armor, and Tilesets

Crooked Bee

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Tags: J.E. Sawyer; Obsidian Entertainment; Project Eternity

Obsidian's Josh Sawyer offers a new Project Eternity development update, which is mostly a mechanics update this time. Have a snippet:



Non-Core Classes

We've previously discussed the design of our "core four" classes: fighter, priest, rogue, and wizard. The non-core classes are the other seven: barbarian, paladin, ranger, druid, monk, chanter, and cipher. Like the core four classes, the non-core classes all start the game with two active or modal abilities and one passive ability.

When it comes to the balance of active/modal and passive options, the classes generally reflect their D&D counterparts, with spellcasters having more active use abilities and weapon-based classes being oriented toward more passive or modal abilities. Even so, it will be possible to push a spellcaster toward more passive talents and to optionally buy more active/modal abilities for traditionally low-maintenance characters. While all classes will have many more abilities as they advance, here are some basic elements for each of the seven classes.
  • Barbarians can use Wild Sprint a limited number of times per day, allowing them to rapidly rush across the battlefield to a distant target while ignoring hazards along the way.
  • Paladins have limited healing capabilities, but their Revive command allows them to instantly snap an unconscious ally awake with a large Stamina boost.
  • Rangers' animal companions are so closely bonded to their masters that they share Stamina and Health pools, which can be both a blessing and a curse.
  • Druids can Shapeshift into animal forms, gaining natural -- and some supernatural -- abilities associated with those creatures.
  • Monks absorb a portion of incoming damage and convert it into a Wounds resource they can use to power their soul-based abilities (such as Stunning Blows) through any weapons they use, including unarmed strikes.
  • Chanters begin the game with a number of phrases they can arrange to form songs with different effects. Aefyllath Ues Mith Fyr is a phrase that causes allies' weapons to emit magical flames.
  • Cipher powers often gain intensity as they maintain focus. Their basic Mind Jab starts as a minor irritant but can build to inflict devastating damage.
Cooldowns

Early on, some folks asked about cooldowns and both Tim and I agreed that we weren't opposed to using them in some form if it made sense for our mechanics. To be more explicit about it, the only way in which we are currently using anything cooldown-like is for per-encounter and per-rest abilities. Per-encounter abilities can be used a number of times in an encounter and are then disabled until combat ends. Per-rest abilities can be used a number of times after resting before you must rest to recover them. We've previously discussed grimoire-switching for wizards possibly invoking a cooldown. It's more likely that grimoire-switching will be limited through the inventory system and not by a cooldown.

We also have modal abilities that can be turned on and off at will, with some abilities being exclusive to others, meaning you can only have one active at a time.​


The update goes on to talk about attack resolution, damage type vs. armor type, and the trials and tribulations of building dungeon tilesets. Read it in full here.
 

Maiandros

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song forming...

song.. forming..

now give me runes to combine for my spells a-la Ultima Underworld too? Fuck bards anyway, lol, god damn sissies...

:codexisfor:
 

Stinger

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So...looking at those attack roll mechanics: You only have a 5% chance of missing. By and large you'll either be hitting with full damage or hitting with half damage.

In most of the modern RPGs these days where stuff like to hit chance has more or less been removed, this is countered with HP bloat. If you're always hitting the enemy then the enemy simply has a shitload of HP to let them take more hits.

Frankly this is one of the most frustrating things to deal with and it leads to some really boring and arduous gameplay. Dragon Age 2 is an extreme example of what happens to encounter design and HP bars when To Hit chance is 'streamlined'.

I wonder how Sawyer et al. will work on making sure a system like that is both balanced and fun. The armour system looks like it might help with that but even that might not be enough.
 

Infinitron

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So...looking at those attack roll mechanics: You only have a 5% chance of missing. By and large you'll either be hitting with full damage or hitting with half damage.

In most of the modern RPGs these days where stuff like to hit chance has more or less been removed, this is countered with HP bloat. If you're always hitting the enemy then the enemy simply has a shitload of HP to let them take more hits.

Frankly this is one of the most frustrating things to deal with and it leads to some really boring and arduous gameplay. Dragon Age 2 is an extreme example of what happens to encounter design and HP bars when To Hit chance is 'streamlined'.

I wonder how Sawyer et al. will work on making sure a system like that is both balanced and fun. The armour system looks like it might help with that but even that might not be enough.

Update said:
If the Accuracy and target defense are the same value, these are how the results break down:
 

Modron

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T'will be shit.

Update said:
If the Accuracy and target defense are the same value, these are how the results break down:

Shame on you Infinitron, luckily one of the trolls got to say PE will be shit before you came in here and spoiled the fun with your ability to actually read an article instead of the standard vitriolic reacting to an out of context quote/opinion.
 

tindrli

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THE LAMEST first 10 seconds for LIFE.. Shit, we could even do a smile-y for this one.
 

Captain Shrek

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Yeah!

Now get rid of those Per encounter bullshit too (Except perhaps for cantrips :oops: ).
 

Captain Shrek

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Well, it IS detrimental to encounter design AND tactics since you are going to end up using the same exact set of spell/abilities in probably same exact order.
 

Modron

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Well, it IS detrimental to encounter design AND tactics since you are going to end up using the same exact set of spell/abilities in probably same exact order.

Don't people celebrate BG 2's mage battles for this same exact thing?
 
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As I suspected, shitty holistic HP system that doesn't account for weapon vs. armour styles and body location. SO ORIGINAL, SO NICHE, UNLIKE EVERY OTHER GAME, WHAT GREAT FUCKING JOB IT IS!

A number between 1 and 100 is generated to determine the attack rules. If the Accuracy and target defense are the same value, these are how the results break down:

01-05 = Miss
06-50 = Graze
51-95 = Hit
96-100 = Critical Hit

And how is that number generated? The same old simplistic shitty linear damage model, I bet?

Damage Type vs. Armor Type

We've previously talked about how different weapon damage types (Slash, Crush, and Pierce) fare against Damage Threshold (DT) in the game. We implemented that system and found that while it worked well on paper and scaled well, it was unintuitive when put into the game. It was not possible for players to make informed decisions about what weapons to use against a given armor type because doing so required making relative damage vs. DT calculations for all weapon types, i.e. having a spreadsheet open for comparison at all times.

That's fucking retarded. You want good and easily memorable diversity without having to look up fucking tables? Take a fucking cue from real life for once, Josh. Here is more or less how it works IRL, Josh:

Plate: Impervious to Slash / low susceptibility to Pierce / average susceptibility to Crush
Mail: low susceptibility to Slash / medium-high susceptibility to Pierce / high susceptibility to Crush
Other: medium to high susceptibility to pretty much everything.

And instead of relying on an arsenal of weapons to support your very original idea of a simplistic combat model, how about you actually give us weapon techniques as options to use against any given armor type? Like half-swording against someone in plate suit. The way it worked in real fucking world, the way it makes sense, the way it is fun.

Oh wait, I remember: grappling animations are MISSION IMPOSSIBRU! OLOLOLOL!

Enjoy your featureless bland copycat Real Dime with Crap game, people. Made to fill a niche that's been abandoned. The way nobody makes them any more. YOU-NICK!

As it is, even Baldur's Gate has a better combat model, which is just pathetic.

R00FLES!

Well, at least that hopefully means that cool-downs are out for good.
 

Infinitron

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Obsidian must have a FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED UNDERSTANDING of combat models.
 

Captain Shrek

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From formspring:

Is weapon reach going to be a consideration in Project Eternity?

JESawyer: Most melee weapons will have a standard/uniform reach. Characters don't need to be right on top of each other to engage in melee, but they need to be fairly close. Some weapons, like pikes, have the advantage of being able to attack from fully behind another character.

At least they got that right, but I have a feeling that they will fuck it up or remove it at the end.

Obsidian must have a FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED UNDERSTANDING of combat models.

Good to know that the butthurt I have inflicted on you have such a long duration, still making you whine about it like a bitch.

:smug:

Also, it will be delicious when PE will come out and stealth will turn out to be a shitty experience, like in every other Obsidian game (sans FNV).

:smug: :smug: :smug:
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm actually trying to make that phrase into a Codex meme. It's quite amusing, reminds me of Cleve's "low native intelligence" quip.
 

Zeriel

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song forming...

song.. forming..

now give me runes to combine for my spells a-la Ultima Underworld too? Fuck bards anyway, lol, god damn sissies...

:codexisfor:

No doubt we will be required to use a headset to sing our songs. It's like the Kinect, but for PC gamers!
 

evdk

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song forming...

song.. forming..

now give me runes to combine for my spells a-la Ultima Underworld too? Fuck bards anyway, lol, god damn sissies...

:codexisfor:

No doubt we will be required to use a headset to sing our songs. It's like the Kinect, but for PC gamers!
Volume would determine the strength of the song - the harder you yell, the better the effect!
 

bminorkey

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race_title.png
 

Maiandros

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i like VoTS, he makes good points if you put aside his way of expressing them..
and i think eeeverybody could do with -some- of his cynicism, it's not like this could be the first time we are promised marvels and get to be given erm..well..insert your own favourite noun here
 

Arkeus

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So...looking at those attack roll mechanics: You only have a 5% chance of missing. By and large you'll either be hitting with full damage or hitting with half damage.
Just a detail there, but it's not 'Full damage' and 'Half damage'.
If, say, you hit at 7-15 Damage, a normal hit would be around 10 or so, and a 'graze' would be 3.5, and that is before factoring in DT, so it would be more like 8 and 1.

tl;dr, a graze will be much less than 'half' because 'half minimum damage before factoring in DT' is quite a bit less than 'half damage'.
 

Roguey

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Not certain about this rock-paper-scissors approach to armor. "If a weapon is bad it does half damage before DT is even applied :smug:" feels like it might result in a lot of tedious weapon switching busywork.

Also I don't care if the IE games hid enemy stats and only referred to health in vague words, I'd like to see those numbers.

I do like how even that test area looks better than Wasteland 2. Absurdian continues to one-up inEPTile. January's almost a week away from being over, when's that update going to happen, Fargo?
 

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