Torment PS:T + Lustmord

[iqzulk]

Trivia:

Spoiler

Brian Williams (also known as Lustmord) was the original composer for Planescape: Torment. Here are two official trailers: 1, 2 - featuring the same track made by him specifically for the game. His work was ultimately discarded and changed for Mark Morgan's soundtrack. Trailer music (above) is the only musical piece left from the former soundtrack (apart from the files in possession of Brian himself).

Here is some trivia about his involvement into the game's development:

1.

will you ever release the music you made for the game?

I have no plan to do so and don't think there is enough interest to make it worthwhile.
If I recall properly, there was 90-100 minutes of music in all, though it could be more.
Some elements are on the album Metavoid, as I was working on that material at the time Interplay approached me and they asked for some of it to be incorporated into the game, and I ended up using those elements in the album as I originally planned.

Source​

2.

Have you ever sampled something from a Lustmord CD to put it in a movie?

No. Though individual sounds that I created for use in Lustmord have appeared in movies though, and didn't get used in Lustmord as a result.
I was working on a Lustmord album when approached by Interplay to compose music for their gamer "Planescape: Torment". Quite a few elements from that album ended up being used on Planescape (they liked it and wanted to use it). Later, after a new producer decided to change musical direction and didn't use the work that I'd done, some of that music ended up being reworked back into Lustmord again and about 10 minutes of it is in "Metavoid".

Was it the first time you were working on a video game?

Yes, and it was a terrible experience.

Why?

It was very enjoyable to start with, but then the original producer quit and things changed. The company responsible is very corporate, lots of attorneys in suits etc
Originally they loved what I was doing, then, after four months of work, and six weeks before the game was released, they decided on a completely different musical direction and said they were "now thinking more along the lines of John Williams " (!)
I suggested that in that case they hire John Williams and pay him his usual $1M fee
So I was out, and my work, about 46 pieces of music in all, went unused.

Source​

Also, Mark Morgan's point of view:

There are rumors that you only had a couple of weeks to write the music for Planescape: Torment. Is that so? What was your time frame on Fallout and Fallout 2, and when did you start working on these projects?

Yes, on all three games I began late in the process... Planescape: Torment was a quick turnaround as you suggest. I did it in about 2 weeks. I don’t know why, but the game was pretty much completed before they decided who was to do the music.

Source​

Now to the matter at hand. Here is the twitter conversation I had with the guy just now:

Me:
Concerning your work on Planescape: Torment and the lack of interest for you initial soundtrack's release. Are you aware about PS:T spiritual sequel and its crowdfunding campaign that was concluded some time ago? Link. Not to mention another spiritual sequel (although in more indirect way)with similarly successful campaign? Link. And another bit of trivia. Here is most popular digital resource that sells digital copies of old games. Link. And here is its chart of bestselling games: Link. As you can see, PS:T occupies the second slot.
The thing, the objective fact is: on videogaming scene, PS:T is a cult classic with tremendous reputation, that continues to sell (and even to provide the spiritual sequels with needed funding!) even today, 14 years after its release. The point is: I imagine, there WILL be a significant interest for your unreleased OST, if you decide to remaster and publish it. Even more so - in the light of current Torment: Tides of Numenera development (maybe even some mutual promotion is possible).
So, finally, THE question. Given everything aforementioned, is there any chance whatsoever for that enigmatic album to ever finally see the light of day?
P.S. Thank you for your attention and time. I am also sorry for all the mistypes.
P.P.S. Come to think of it, you can even run a Kickstarter campaign for that album. If it reaches the "OK, now it IS worth my while" number - then the project is a go, and the pledges carry on as pre-orders on the album. And if the campaign fails to reach that number - then, I guess, there isn't enough interest after all.

Brian:
Not aware of any of the things you mentioned. I doubt there's enough interest to justify a release. It's all short 1-2 min tracks.

Me:
Could you give some estimate number (of interested fans / sold album copies) of what you consider to be "enough interest" to justify this particular release?

Brian:
Enough to cover manufacture costs and the work put into it. This is ow I make my living.

Me:
I understand that. I was asking for an estimate because I was thinking about creating an online petition to show the interest (or the lack of it). Also, both Torment: Tides of Numenera AND Project Eternity collecting >4mil$ each (if you include non-kickstarter paypal pledges) via their crowdfunding campaigns, I'd say, is a pretty evident indication, that there IS a pretty significant amount of interest (in one form or another) towards Planescape:Torment's legacy as of right now.

Brian:
Difficult to follow the thread of what you're trying to say in 140 bursts. Best use the usual channels for a more direct approach.​

​

So, the question is: "What now?". Like, do I need to start an internet petition or something (since he obviously doesn't want to "test the waters" even if via kickstarter)? If so, then how do I need to write the damn thing? In what way do I need to "promote" it? Finally, what number of signatures should be considered enough (since he obviously dodged the last question - and, I presume, has no intention whatsoever to name any specific numbers)? What's basically the best way to resolve this whole thing?

 

[Infinitron]

Brother None ksaun CMcC

 

[ghostdog]

As far as I know most of PST soundtrack music made it into Lustmord's Metavoid album and most prominently in :

Blood Deep In Red:


The Eliminating Angel (Couldn't find it full, it's a 11:43 track):


A Light that is darkness:



And since what we're talking about a few 1-2 minute tracks I don't really see a point in such a release. I would much prefer a new collaboration for a soundtrack for T:ToN.

 

[Sceptic]

What's basically the best way to resolve this whole thing?

Here's a little life lesson for you. PST is a cult classic. TTON raised 4 million dollars on Kickstarter. FOUR MILLIONS. If after pointing the guy to this he still claims that "there isn't enough interested" then, short of you walking into his office with $1M in cash, nothing will make him change his mind. I've dealt with plenty of people like this IRL. They don't want to put the effort to find out if this stuff is martketable. They don't really care about it. I mean if he had ANY interest then he would've given you an estimate (which he didn't). Or he would've gone and had a look at the TTON kickstarter, the numbers, etc, which I'm pretty sure from his short reply he didn't bother doing.

That said the music's pretty nice from what I can tell of the Metavoid excerpts I've listened to, would've fit the game nicely.

 

[iqzulk]

As far as I know most of PST soundtrack music made it into Lustmord's Metavoid album

and about 10 minutes of it is in "Metavoid"

Sadly, 10 min is far from either 63 min (Metavoid) or 90-100 min (original PS:T album), so I wouldn't say this is "most of PST soundtrack music".

Sceptic, you do have a point. And this

Or he would've gone and had a look at the TTON kickstarter, the numbers, etc, which I'm pretty sure from his short reply he didn't bother doing.

could actually be right.

P.S. Updated the OP conversation.

 

[ghostdog]

Sadly, 10 min is far from either 63 min (Metavoid) or 90-100 min (original PS:T album), so I wouldn't say this is "most of PST soundtrack music".

Sceptic, you do have a point. And thiscould actually be right.

P.S. Updated the OP conversation.

90-100 minutes ? I didn't know there was that much, especially from how Brian talked about it. I Just read the interview. Thumbs up for a petition then, but he is probably still a bit butthurt from the fact that they didn't use his music (and maybe rightfully so).

 

[Whisky]

Too bad, but you can't force people into releasing stuff they clearly don't want to. You can tell just by how he's answering.

 

[MicoSelva]

Trivia: Brian Williams (also known as Lustmord) was the original composer for Planescape: Torment. Here are two official trailers: 1, 2 - featuring the same track made by him specifically for the game.

This reminds me. These trailers have bits of animated scenes, stills from which are used as images of NPCs/monsters in the journal in PST. When I was younger, I thought these animations can be accessed in-game and I just didn't know how to do it. Does anyone know if they are available anywhere in their full glory?

EDIT:
I'm guessing that the producer change mentioned is Guido Henkel leaving and someone replacing him. Do we know who that someone was?

 

[iqzulk]

I'm guessing that the producer change mentioned is Guido Henkel leaving and someone replacing him. Do we know who that someone was?

Well, if you look at the credits section (at mobygames, for example), the answer becomes kinda obvious:

Producers Guido Henkel, Kenneth Lee

Quick search also revealed these two links: 1, 2.


As for the subject matter, I received this answer:

@iqzulk Difficult to follow the thread of what you're trying to say in 140 bursts. Best use the usual channels for a more direct approach.

so i guess he at least liked that 4mil$ number I shoved in my last message to him. Guess, now I'll need to write him via email, and to explain, very precisely and carefully, my entire line of thought (including the explanation of how kickstarter works).

 

[iqzulk]

Also, found this tidbit by Guido himself:

ein anderes kleines Trivia Tidbit, nur zur Info. Das Spiel hatte ursprünglich einen komplett anderen Soundtrack. Ich hatte damals einen Künstler mit dem Namen “Lustmord” angeheurt, der sehr Industrial klang, und damals auch für Hollywood Filme gearbeitet hat. Nachdem ich das Team verlassen hatte, wurde in einer, meiner Meinung nach dummen Entscheidung, sein kompletter Soundtrack herausgenommen und mit einem anderen von Mark Morgan ersetzt, der, meiner Meinung nach, nicht annähernd so gut war. Mark hatte eben den Vorteil, dass er damals mit dem Audio Direktor sehr gut befreundet war, der mit meiner Idee eines Industrial Soundtracks von Anfang an Probleme hatte, weil es eben sehr unkonventionell war.

for which GoogleTranslate provides the following translation (if anyone wants to contribute a better translation, I'll gladly switch this one for it):

another little trivia tidbit, just for info. The game originally had a completely different soundtrack. I had at that time an artist by the name of "Lustmord" angeheurt which sounded very industrial, and then worked for Hollywood movies. After I left the team, was in a, in my opinion, stupid decision, taken out his entire soundtrack and replaced with another of Mark Morgan, who, in my opinion, was not nearly as good. Mark just had the advantage that he was very good friends with the audio director at that time, from the beginning, had problems with my idea of an Industrial Soundtracks, because it was just very unconventional.

The aforementioned audio director, as mobygames suggests, was Charles Deenen.

 

[Scruffy]

wow, with this kind of soundtrack PS:T would have been even better, and i do like MMorgan's stuff, but this is clearly more fitting.

 

[Athelas]

So they hired this guy to score music for months and then fired him mere weeks before the game's release? No wonder Interplay went under... Although it sounds like they didn't pay him or something.

 

[Eyeball]

Good call. PS:T's soundtrack as it is is a million times better than anything Lustmord could have done. Simply fits better.

 

[Excommunicator]

Also, found this tidbit by Guido himself:
[

another little trivia tidbit, just for info. The game originally had a completely different soundtrack. I had at that time an artist by the name of "Lustmord" angeheurt which sounded very industrial, and then worked for Hollywood movies. After I left the team, was in a, in my opinion, stupid decision, taken out his entire soundtrack and replaced with another of Mark Morgan, who, in my opinion, was not nearly as good. Mark just had the advantage that he was very good friends with the audio director at that time, from the beginning, had problems with my idea of an Industrial Soundtracks, because it was just very unconventional.

The aforementioned audio director, as mobygames suggests, was Charles Deenen.

Sounds like some shameless cronyism by the audio director to get his friend a job when the task was already completed by a more accomplished musician, and all at the extent of the studio. I bet this kind of thing happens a lot in the game industry (and movies, music)

A shame, Lustmord in PST would have been excellent

 

[Luzur]

huh, his nickname is Lustmord? is he swedish?

Lustmord = Pleasure Murder.

 

[Cosmo]

He's from Wales i think. And lustmord is a german word that means sex murder (i always thought it was a stupid name).

 

[Regvard]

There are so many pieces of good music out there and as much as I love PS:T; I doubt any non-aspie particularly cares unless it can somehow be integrated back in to the game with a superior outcome than the original. Do you guys seriously sit down and listen to game soundtracks done, usually, by 3rd rate composers?

 

[CMcC]

I was the one who originally approached Brian about doing the work, and I loved what he had done. I had a few heated discussions about keeping it in, but was overruled (I should add that I'm okay with that, because I wasn't the lead on the project, and in the end it wasn't my call to make). After he left the project, I lost touch with him.

I can understand why he might still be pissed about it. I thought it was some pretty excellent, unconventional work.

 

[Luzur]

He's from Wales i think. And lustmord is a german word that means sex murder (i always thought it was a stupid name).

it is spelled the same in swedish.

 

[Eyeball]

Please. Lustmord at his best sounds like a depressed person farting. With him, we would never have heard such grandness as the ouverture to PST, which even today is one of the better RPG themes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixv_jRI6VqY

As a soundtrack for PoE, however, Lustmord's music is spectacular. It really fits the dank and gloomy environments.

 

[Papa Môlé]

Too bad, but you can't force people into releasing stuff they clearly don't want to. You can tell just by how he's answering.

Maybe he wants to appear avant-garde and releasing a video game soundtrack would hurt his image.

 

[Toffeli]

If there are some who don't know this, Lustmord's collaboration with Roberth Rich in the Stalker album is fucking brilliant. One the best if not the best dark ambient albums ever.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalker_(album)

 

[Koschey]

Heh, just today I rewatched the PT trailer, seeing as it is one of my favourite game trailers/ads, and merely hours afterwards I stumble upon this thread.

Difficult to follow the thread of what you're trying to say in 140 bursts. Best use the usual channels for a more direct approach.

Sounds to me like he meant to continue the conversation via mail, so you wouldn't have to fit you questions into the 140 characters of a tweet but instead could elaborate. Have to agree though that sadly, he didn't make a particularly enthusiastic impression. I would have liked to be able to hear his Planescape work.

 

[cherry blossom]

I concur with Septic but it wouldn't be the hardest thing to convince him into a Kickstarter with smart communication.

If you are going to contact him, iqzulk, don't start off naively, talking about negative possibilities as well. Do it as though you are an authority on the subject with firm knowledge to give the impression that any answer he may give will be worth his time, not yours. The guy has made his position clear: "this is how I make money". Entice him with a channel to make money.

The idea that Torment originally had different music that all the devs, including MCA, was in agreement with must be marketed but the way you should talk about it to him is as if that already has happened and with a convincing enough effort, people are ready to buy an exclusive PST album. There is potential in this.

Perhaps Vault Dweller will have sound advise, being a former VP of sales.

 

[tuluse]

If he's going to try to kickstart mastering the album it's not going to work unless he puts effort into it. It sounds like he's not enthusiastic about it and asking for other people's money for something you personally don't give a shit about doesn't work well on kickstarter.

There are so many pieces of good music out there and as much as I love PS:T; I doubt any non-aspie particularly cares unless it can somehow be integrated back in to the game with a superior outcome than the original. Do you guys seriously sit down and listen to game soundtracks done, usually, by 3rd rate composers?

I'm looking at the PST install directory right now. I see no reason why one couldn't replace the existing music files. They're .acm files, and don't seem to play nice with any media players I have, but I doubt it would be hard to convert an mp3 into this format.