Quake Enhanced Edition

[Curratum]

Time for a break from all of this. Switching to driving really fast down twisty roads! :D

 

[Riskbreaker]

I take whatever good things I said about Dimension of the Machine back. Those levels don't have shit on AD, even though they have a few moments of glory.

3 of the 5 dimensions / 2-level sets have been an absolutely annoying slog. So many issues, my head starts to hurt, and I'm forcing myself to finish them on Nightmare to get the last two achievements...

Shitty overdetailed brushwork on floors and walls that you get caught up on often, some dull "detailed boxes" rooms and long stretches of level, absolute everloving enemy spam to the point where it makes you sick, one level had over a dozen shamblers, some fancy-pants designs that look a lot better than they play (which was very rarely the case with AD).

Scourge and Dissolution are so much more fun that the new stuff. Even Dimension of the Past was better, honestly.

Edit: Just got to the final boss. What an fucking pisstake. This is exactly why you don't make boss fights in games like Doom and Quake - they all invariably end up HORRIBLY shitty.

I've enjoyed the Blacksmith's and Cultists' realms/minisodes. In the former, I enjoyed the mood of the first map, ruinous monastery fortress over swampy terrain, all bathed in afternoon sunlight. Tho, I'm guessing this is where your complaint about getting stuck on geometry mainly comes from. And the second map of the former minisode, with this lava-powered plant over a lake of lava, next to ruinous medieval fortress, is a perfect Quakesih mixture of fantasy and futuristic/industrial (it's like if this industrial facility is burrowing into the fortress' entrails). Here I only wasn't a fan of that scripted trap with falling floors (I don't think anything like that happens anywhere else in DotM so you don't exactly expect it and, unless you're a savescumming type, this means replaying what is a rather large map due to something unrelated to your skill) and the fucking spawns in the final encounter. The whole thing actually reminds of something Tronyn would've made years ago, both the scale and the visuals.
As for the latter minisode, it really feels and looks like something straight outta AD. It's really that exact aesthetic. And I loved the 'twist' between its two maps.
The second map of the Astrologers' realm is also pretty solid, again this great mixture of themes (futuristic mining facility next to ruinous ancient tower, with some sort of catacombs and hellish realm beneath). And I don't recall anything offensive encounter-wise.

The rest tho, I've already forgotten it other than the Stonemasons maps whose author can kindly go fuck himself. And yeah, the finale is pretty shitty.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Finished Dissolution of Eternity. Armagon was quite a lot better, Eternity wasn't outright BAD but it didn't have much in the way of memorable traps, memorable levels, or memorable encounters. Final boss sucked as can be expected of Quake and FPS in general (Once again special shoutout to Hedon, the two bosses in episode 1 were actually quite fun). Disappointing that the same company behind Strife made a ho-hum Quake level pack given how fucking cool Strife is. The egyptian theme in Eternity felt a little odd too, on one hand it's nice since it's new texture work and content, but on the other hand it gets used a fucking ton and doesn't feel fitting for Quake at large. One or two maps and it'd be a cool splash of flavor for some Quake weirdness, but since it's the primary focus I stopped caring about it. Also a lot of maps that do the fucking earthquake effect which is a pain in the ass. One positive after the bitching though, the new enemies in Eternity are nice. Multi-grenade ogres are fun, the ghost dudes are less damaging than vores so the fucking vore projectile isn't QUITE as annoying, and... That's the main good point. The alternate weapons are fun too, even though you're so well equipped on ammo that you can be spamming rockets/multi-rockets/plasma/lava nails like a madman with little concern.

Few maps into Dimension of the Past now and I'm digging it. I will say that the early sci-fi levels felt more unique compared to most other sci-fi Quake levels because you're somewhat limited on weapons, health and armor pickups aren't as plentiful as in most Quake maps, and they really spam the fucking hell out of the trash enemies to the point where they're actually fairly threatening. Visually the maps haven't been very good, but the gameplay's been excellent. Some really good encounter design to make some fairly basic enemies like knights and ogres (And as mentioned, shotgunners and dogs) a fun fight.

 

[DemonKing]

Playing this on game pass at the moment and digging it a lot (I never played back in the 90s as I was a starving student with no decent PC when this came out). The frenetic pace is something sorely missing from most modern shooters.

I tried Doom II as well as I never played that for the same reason. Found it too hard to get into without the ability to move the gun up and down which has been a staple since Quake (yes I know you can still shoot things at different levels but it just feels weird).

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I tried Doom II as well as I never played that for the same reason. Found it too hard to get into without the ability to move the gun up and down which has been a staple since Quake (yes I know you can still shoot things at different levels but it just feels weird).

Really though, if that's the main thing that was making it rough for you then try out a source port. I'd recommend GZDoom even though a lot of the default settings are shit and it only comes together once you tweak it, but even ignoring that you can just give yourself jump and WASD controls with mouse aiming. If you're enjoying Quake I'd have a hard time imagining you wouldn't like Doom when you get the controls the way you want. If you're playing on console game pass though then you're SOL of course.

 

[DemonKing]

If you're enjoying Quake I'd have a hard time imagining you wouldn't like Doom when you get the controls the way you want.

I played Wolfenstein 3D and the original Doom on release at the time and had no issues with them then, it was just after 25 years of FPS playing since it was too distracting to go back and try and enjoy Doom II with the fixed Y-axis whereas Quake is much more intuitive to my current muscle memory.

Of course if I could be assed I could mod it as you suggest.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Dimension of the Past finished. Short but really sweet, visually it's not that special but that's got some really fine gameplay in it. Pleasing encounter design, some nice traps, and the weirder levels later on weren't too shabby. I'd definitely put that up with Armagon as some of the best Quakery, tend to have the most fun with maps that are in the 10-20 minute range running around like a maniac and they both did well for that category. Final level was a bit of a wet fart, the lack of a boss was fine but it didn't do anything that interesting or cool. The secrets also tended to be on the easy side for DoP but I'm not all that opposed to it particularly if the maps are built for quick play as it is.

 

[Boleskine]

 

[bussinrounds]

And a few episodes before that....#291 - Classic RPGs with Neal Halford

That part doesn't start until 36:52

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Dimension of the machine finished. Oddly enough I think dimension of the past had better gameplay, the maps had a better flow to them and especially the encounters seemed to be made with more care regarding enemy placement and composition to make cool fights. The visuals in machine were obviously fantastic, there were a few levels that were a little more plain but by and large it was really pretty. For a while I felt like I was going to have to bitch about lack of fucky Quake levels in there but the second astrologer map's final sequence was pretty nice, and the cult second level was kind of cool with the inverted map. Once again though kinda at the cost of gameplay, since there were a noticeable number of spots where enemies would freak out over pathfinding and/or fitting through locations as well as placing ogres in some spots where they're essentially useless. Even with some bitching about the gameplay I'd say it's probably still better than Dissolution of Eternity and still good compared to most shooters in general but it's odd that it's almost the inversion of Machinegames' previous map pack where the visuals were simple but the gameplay was stronger. Final boss was weak (As usual with Quake) but it was still probably the best boss sequence in all of Quake 1.

Overall really nice experience though, Quake remaster's nice and even though I didn't intend to do it I had fun playing through everything.

 

[JarlFrank]

I got all the achievements, finished everything on nightmare. Good stuff

Haven't played original Quake in years, it still holds up. Each episode has a cool structure of starting out in sci-fi land and then going into Lovecraftian horror territory through the slipgates. There weren't any bad levels really, all the original ones were fun to play. Sandy's Episode 4 is often maligned, but it has some really creative level and encounter design in it, only visually it's way rougher than the others and the spawns are an annoying enemy.

Scourge of Armagon has some interesting new stuff, I enjoyed the sci fi maps a lot and the laser gun is awesome. But those dumb exploding homing mines are shit, especially on the new nightmare that gives you only 50 health. They kill you in one hit so you have to be careful, but they're often placed in a very trollish manner: in dark corners behind a door, or spawning right in your back when you go down a hallway... stupid. Hated the things.

I like Dissolution of Eternity a bit better than Armagon. The new weapons and enemies are great, and the ancient Greek and Egyptian ruins theme offered a fresh look. Fuck that dragon end boss though.

Dimension of the Past is a very solid classic Quake style campaign. It's a lot harder than any of the original episodes, including EP4 and the expansions. I often struggled with ammo and health especially in the early levels of the campaign. There's just a little bit of shambler and vore overuse, but it's manageable. Level design is great and so is encounter design whenever the game decides to play it straight instead of trolling you with shambler spam.

Dimension of the Machine is a visual masterpiece, and its overall level and encounter design is good too. What I like the most is that some maps combine enemy types that are usually not seen together, like the sci fi gunners + the monsters in the same map. The second map of Astronomers' Realm was my favorite, with its high tech dig site going down into an ancient lava ruin. Peak Quake aesthetics. But in some maps, the shambler overuse is quite painful. Usually the designers give you a heavy nailgun and/or enough nail ammo before such an encounter, but it happens so often that you just end up sighing and going "This again?" when another shambler pops up behind a corner. The vores aren't that bad though, since most of the time they don't appear alone but with other monsters around... and that's just the perfect setup for causing some monster infighting

 

[toughasnails]

They could have used some of the mobs from expansions in Dimension of the Machine. They would fit some of the maps thematically and would have helped to spice things up. Dimension of the Past tried to feel like another original episode but they had no reason to limit the bestiary in the same way for the new one.

 

[Ash]

Dimension of the Past tried to feel like another original episode but they had no reason to limit the bestiary in the same way for the new one.

Yes they did. Dopa was made by one guy in 2016 or some shit and released for free at that time. The only worthwhile new thing in this entire rerelease is seemingly DotM (which itself while worthy is a slight case of style over substance). But I guess you declinefags are too busy hunting achievements to boost your gamer cred to notice.

Edit: I misread your post. Apologies. No achievements for me.

 

[Riskbreaker]

^Eh, I won't lie: I likely wouldn't have thought of replaying the expansions without this release and, yes, teh 'cheevements. I did end up enjoying them for themselves even if that initial motivation was external to their content. And I doubt I'm anywhere near alone either.
So that can't be bad, can it?

Anyway, that done it's back to Quakespasm and waiting for whatever community content is in store.

 

[mkultra]

Are there any hi-res texture packs for this (if so, why not included...). I know i've seen them even for Doom, so it's difficult to see how it wouldn't be possible here.

 

[Riskbreaker]

Why? Why would you ever?
Various HD packs for Quake existed since forever but seriously, hi-res textures on Quake's geometry look horrid. For extra eye-rape, search YT for some older videos of Quake with HD textures running on DarkPlaces with them shiny shaders and BLOOM.

 

[mkultra]

Why? Why would you ever?
Various HD packs for Quake existed since forever but seriously, hi-res textures on Quake's geometry look horrid. For extra eye-rape, search YT for some older videos of Quake with HD textures running on DarkPlaces with them shiny shaders and BLOOM.

Nah, I always use hi-res packs for e.g Thief, System Shock 2, HL1 (similar simple geometry). I don't know of any hardcore fans who doesn't use them tbh... Also this is more an issue of someone just doing a poor job of texturing than an issue with simplistic geometry. We now have good upscaling techniques which could have been used here at least..

Never claimed i have any interest in new shaders, that can indeed look horrible but there's a few games, like Morrowind, where it's been expertly done (and in fact even better than in some modern games - Morrowind MGE can easily surpass Oblivion and even Skyrim here when it comes to some shaders), this is very rare though.

SS2 Enhanced will feature many modders works (my own + many other modders works) but it will be optional... people do like their hi-res textures/models, even for older games. They could have done that here, but maybe the packs just sucks, never looked into any...

This version is already updated with new models, new shaders btw.. kind of the point, maybe it's called Enhanced for a reason? if you're super conservative, then this version is not for you in the first place.

 

[JarlFrank]

But I guess you declinefags are too busy hunting achievements to boost your gamer cred to notice.

I have owned Quake on Steam for over a year.

The remaster was a completely free addition to a game I already own.

It's not like I spent any money on it, and the original Quake was 2 bucks on a deep sale when I got it. How am I a declinefag for playing something I got for free?

Now that I finished the new expansions and got all the achievements, I'm back to playing with Quakespasm btw, because it's the better sourceport and all the cool fan maps run fine on it.

 

[JarlFrank]

people do like their hi-res textures/models, even for older games.

Because they're gay.

 

[mkultra]

people do like their hi-res textures/models, even for older games.

Because they're gay.

Again, if you're trying to play the "too old-school and too cool for updates" trope then this version is hardly for you since it's an enhanced version, already altered and changed from how it originally looks and even plays (to some extent). That my friend, is truly gay.

 

[JarlFrank]

Hi-res textures just look terrible on oldschool games, 99% of the time. The HD textures pack for Thief is a particularly horrendous example since it clashes completely with the original artstyle and makes everything look completely different from what the artists intended.
It's especially terrible when it comes to fan missions, where authors use original textures combined with custom textures, and then the HD pack only replaces the original ones, and now it's half hi-res half low-res and looks like a total mess.

The hi-res texture packs often change the hue/color/saturation of textures, too, which then clashes with the intended effects of the lighting and change the atmosphere. Here's an example from the Thief HD mod:

The new one is MUCH darker and has more defined baked-in shadows. Gives off a completely different vibe when put in the same lighting.

Another great example is the Daggerfall DREAM mod. Look at this shit:

The walls look like fucking plastic with that texture, and it's way too high res for the simplistic architecture of Daggerfall's dungeons.
Here's what hallways like this look like in the original:

Completely different color, completely different style of masonry, different lighting mood, etc etc.

HD texture mods are terrible because they ruin the original artistic vision.

Left: orginal; right: HD mod

 

[mkultra]

Hi-res textures just look terrible on oldschool games, 99% of the time. The HD textures pack for Thief is a particularly horrendous example since it clashes completely with the original artstyle and makes everything look completely different from what the artists intended.

Yeah, read what i write, i already said this is highly dependant on the quality of the texture packs, and maybe this is the reason why they this time decided to not include any texture packs.. Again, for SS2 Enhanced i got an email from ND who said my packs (models, textures) are considered essential to the players of the game and to him as well, and why it would be included. I am not a hardcore Quake player, i was back in the day but i'm clueless when it comes to it's texture packs.

Just changing the color slightly on some textures can sometimes break the whole thing, it gets especially bad when it's mixed with some low res textures that no one cared to update, this is very common... For Thief there are numerous packs, i've done my own too, been years since i played it though but i did a mix that worked really well, still retaining the original atmosphere, to me at least.

 

[JarlFrank]

What I like about that Quake Remaster is that the new models stay very true to the original style and are still low poly enough to feel 90s. Really well made.

But overall, I still prefer playing with Quakespasm.

 

[mkultra]

yeah, same dude works on SS2... Swedish guy...

 

[Multidirectional]

HD texture mods are terrible because they ruin the original artistic vision.

I played few missions with this texture pack and I think it looks fine:



I'm sure purists can still find reasons to hate it but I prefer less blurry textures.