Game News Queen's Wish 2: The Tormentor Released

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

It's not about him being a skinflint, it's about him being an actual idiot. He admitted as much recently: he doesn't even understand what looks good. So he ends up paying as much money for trash art as he could have spent on much better art. There are games with budgets even smaller than his that have better art, so there's really no excuse there, except for the fact he sucks at anything but churning out his code.

Jeff Vogel is artistically illiterate.

I am willing to bet 100€ on the statement that he probably never looked at a painting for fun ever in his life. He just doesn't get it. Art and composition are not things his brain can understand. It would not even occur to him to go to an art gallery and look at renaissance masterpieces just to enjoy their beauty. To him, that concept is as foreign as reading Chinese is to people who don't speak it.

To him, "good graphics" is current year AAA production values because he only looks at things from a technical perspective. So unless it's high poly 3D with lots of effects, it's not "high quality". He does not understand the difference between good and bad isometric 2D graphics. All isometric 2D graphics are the same to him, because he only understands them from a technical perspective. And yes, technically there is little difference between something like Shadowrun Returns and his games. Say what you want about SR:R, but its graphics were pretty atmospheric, and not much more sophisticated than his own from a technical perspective. But his just look like trash because he doesn't understand colors and composition.

When he hears people say "Please improve your graphics", he doesn't think about something like Shadowrun Returns which has a technologically similar level but better art direction, he thinks of expensive high poly 3D graphics because to his mind, the technology behind it is all that matters.

Nobody does that, people go to art museums to impress other people who are also at the museum to impress someone else, or because they want to have sex with the person who made the art.

I only 50% believe that...

 

[JarlFrank]

Nobody does that, people go to art museums to impress other people who are also at the museum to impress someone else, or because they want to have sex with the person who made the art.

I love classic art and go to art museums (real ones, not modern art) for fun

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

You don't like modern art? Well, down at the edge of the swamp there is this...

Some call it grafitti, but I like to snap pics when I can of it and even carvings in wood. Some is pretty damn good for what it is.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Nobody does that, people go to art museums to impress other people who are also at the museum to impress someone else, or because they want to have sex with the person who made the art.

I love classic art and go to art museums (real ones, not modern art) for fun

Says the feet loving degenerate (and i say that in a loving, caring way mr Frank)

 

[JarlFrank]

Nobody does that, people go to art museums to impress other people who are also at the museum to impress someone else, or because they want to have sex with the person who made the art.

I love classic art and go to art museums (real ones, not modern art) for fun

Says the feet loving degenerate (and i say that in a loving, caring way mr Frank)

Lots of feet in classic art!

 

[Shadenuat]

argues over someone taste
posts 20 century glamour salon.

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

He's only 52! How does he not have many working years left? It's not like he's a professional wrestler or deep sea fisherman.

You'll all be lucky if I release my first game by 52! Vogel is weak as piss.

 

[almondblight]

I agree with most of what you wrote, but I think there is something to learn from Vogel in terms of how he's managed to stay in business all these years.

He survived because he releases a new game every year. And I mean literally every year... he released his first game in 1995, and Queen's Wish 2 is his 27th title. Yes, some of those are "remakes"... but still, that is remarkably consistent.

To add to this, he's the only indie RPG creator pre-Steam who survived. There were a number of other indie RPGs out there - Cythera, Realmz, Prelude to Darkness. But you usually had developers making one or two games and then disappearing. The way he survived was by fostering a small fanbase and cranking out games on a regular basis. If he spent several months trying to get a dragon sprite to work like the Eschalon guy, he'd be done for (though that didn't work out too well for the Eschalon developer either).

Even in the modern era it's rare for an indie developer to make more than 3 RPG's. If we ignore all of the remakes, Vogel's still made a staggering 18 original RPG's, and a sizeable chunk of them are good.

 

[flushfire]

The first game is one of the few games I was unable to finish. It became a massive slog near the end. I don't mind combat-heavy games but there's just something about Queen's Wish, everything seemed so unsatisfying - the graphics, the systems, the items. The base "building" and everything associated with it was repetitive...

Gave this a chance, but after the last tutorial fight I just can't. It was more of the same, just different names. I'd rather play NWN OC again. At least I can play a class I haven't tried before.

 

[Norfleet]

Jeff Vogel is artistically illiterate.

I am willing to bet 100€ on the statement that he probably never looked at a painting for fun ever in his life. He just doesn't get it. Art and composition are not things his brain can understand. It would not even occur to him to go to an art gallery and look at renaissance masterpieces just to enjoy their beauty. To him, that concept is as foreign as reading Chinese is to people who don't speak it.

More so, I imagine. I have this same kind of thing. I can't even actually tell you why a Renaissance masterpiece is beautiful, or even truly think it is. I can only kind nod along with the circular logic that "it's beautiful because it's a Renaissance masterpiece". The notion of beauty in this way is not merely foreign, but completely alien. Reading Chinese is foreign, but I understand WHY they read Chinese. Art? That's just straight up alien. I don't actually understand its purpose, I just file it as "ritualistic".

To him, "good graphics" is current year AAA production values because he only looks at things from a technical perspective. So unless it's high poly 3D with lots of effects, it's not "high quality". He does not understand the difference between good and bad isometric 2D graphics. All isometric 2D graphics are the same to him, because he only understands them from a technical perspective. And yes, technically there is little difference between something like Shadowrun Returns and his games. Say what you want about SR:R, but its graphics were pretty atmospheric, and not much more sophisticated than his own from a technical perspective. But his just look like trash because he doesn't understand colors and composition.

Well, to me, "good" graphics is strictly functionalist. A green and black radar screen is "better graphics" to me than your glitzy bloom and blur-infested whatzit. Because the radar screen is functional, while all the other vfx detracts from the functionality. My only two reference points for graphical evaluation are "looks like the thing it's trying to represent" and "informs me of what I want to know about it". These two points are often opposed to each other.

 

[Bohrain]

Well, to me, "good" graphics is strictly functionalist. A green and black radar screen is "better graphics" to me than your glitzy bloom and blur-infested whatzit. Because the radar screen is functional, while all the other vfx detracts from the functionality. My only two reference points for graphical evaluation are "looks like the thing it's trying to represent" and "informs me of what I want to know about it". These two points are often opposed to each other.

Composition is one of the things that plays into what people find aesthetically pleasing. In your example extra detail makes the radar too visually busy and thus unappealing. As long as you can tell that something looks appealing to you and something doesn't it implies some appreciation of art. There absolutely is a cultural/ritualistic aspect to art trends, but there are always some fundamental aspects that make pieces stand the test of time like gesture, colour harmony, values and composition.

Take this skybox from Spyro the Dragon for example. The game got a remaster, but people went their way to mod upcaled versions of these to the remasters. And the reason is the colours. Even though it's technologically inferior to what you could make with present day polycounts, it still holds up. The colours blend in to each other in a pleasing way and there is though put into where sharp cuts are present and where soft gradients overlap other forms.

 

[Ryan muller]

And yes, it is relatively innovative. The tactical innovation is virtually non-existant. But the idea that your character isn't a murderhobo, and is instead a prince who already has the best gear available is less trodden ground. The idea that clearing out a dungeon is valuable because you get to use the dungeon in your economy, not because you find a rusted sword, is relatively unique. Having party progression tied to diplomacy isn't uncommon, but it isn't the norm either.

Romancing SaGa 2 already did in the 90s.