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Quest compass and marker

SymbolicFrank

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Mar 24, 2010
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The main problem I have with this, is that it kills exploring. Linear quests, no need for side areas (they only cost money to create) and, of course, no branching story.

It is the opposite of a simulation.
 

Lord_Potato

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Quest compass and marker, when they are introduced, should be optional, so that you would be able to turn them off and enjoy a more oldschool feel.

Unfortunately,that would require more work from the devs. The NPCs would have to actually tell us where to go, how to find important locations (like they used to do in Morrowind or Gothic). Travel directions would have to be recorded, voiced etc. Without it turning off the quest compass would make the game quite unplayable - or you would have to rely on bumping by accident on the proper locations.

What really irritates me is not even quest compass but GPS that leads you to your next quest by picking the easiest route. It really infuriated me in Witcher 3. I want to choose my own path!
 

NotAGolfer

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Divinity: Original Sin 2
They simply need to either make smaller and less open gameworlds again (see Gothics) or add a way to ask random NPCs for the way like in Morrowind ... or the real world. That and a more detailed ingame quest journal than one line of text for every quest.
Also why not add names of rivers, mountains and other landmarks on the map instead of quest markers popping up everywhere? Then they would be forced to name all that procedurally generated shit they built and called a gameworld and maybe think more about where to place stuff and how to make it all a little more exciting to hike across.

I really liked how Gothic I and II did it, natural barriers everywhere, turning overworld exploration into something that often feels like dungeon crawling, with exploring hidden canyons, finding the best loot off the beaten path etc.
 

Tigranes

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I don't think anyone can think of a good argument for compasses?

What we really need is some actual level design; the vast majority of games / maps / areas do not feature any.
 

SymbolicFrank

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That's why my Holy Grail is a simulation. People react to the things you do. It's the ultimate in C&C, make your own story and immersion.
 

Mebrilia the Viera Queen

Guest
My two cents

I think one of the games with no quest markers that implemented this better was morrowind... You had to ask around for directions check the signs or you could even buy maps from the cartographel to have a general glimpse of the major location on a region...

Sadly the instant gratification crowd could not handle this and they can't think about an rpg lacking quest markers... There was a time that games were made for people with brain and they indeed were games today instead games are full of flat gamey mechanics and instead of games are no toys...

How many times retards in random forum shun criticism like that with phrases like: It's a VIDEOGAME..

Mass market sadly wants idiots not intellectuals
 
Self-Ejected

c2007

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I used to use my sextant for things like this, but then I took a Bethesda to the knee.
 

octavius

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Yeah, it kinda makes me wonder what it the point of a game like Skyrim. One would assume exploration would be one of the main things about a large open world 1PP game. From what I've heard it's not even possible to mod it out like you could do in Oblivion, since unlike Oblivion you are not given any directions.
 

Zombra

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It also surprises me how few games can manage street signs. You've got these sweet graphics now but you don't use them to help us learn our way around, because then we might not need your damn quest markers.

Hypocrite moment: I did enjoy the Clairvoyance spell in Skyrim. Turned off all the markers and asked the spirits to tell me where to go. They knew where the treasure was!
 

Mexi

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It's 100% necessary if the game doesn't give you proper directions, like someone already mentioned. Sometimes you fucks go too far and too autistic with this shit. For example, some autistic fuck in a thread a long ass time ago arguing against highlighting items like they did in Baldur's Gate: EE because then you could easily find treasures instead of pixel-hunting. Fuck pixel hunting. If you think that's a good thing, kill yourself.
 

Neanderthal

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Design for fucking retards, an its insulting that developers think so little of their audience, an that they're so fucking lazy as to not make good ingame systems. Retards'll cheer em on all day for this shit, an make excuses 'til doomsday as to why they shouldn't make a better product. Its plain to see where its all leading an all, games are playing emsens more an more wi less an less input, because poor little baby has to be catered to and can't think, experiment, explore or have owt bar everything presented on a silver platter in name of accessibility and fun.

Games should be about learning, challenge, adaptation, experimentation but instead we're being treated like rats in a skinner box, pressing button to get our loot. Fuck that, rats can at least get through a maze, we get straight fucking corridors that still have quest markers in.

Bollocks, plain an simple.

Look at a map in Thief, fucking perfect execution of a rough idea that intrigues player and encourages exploration, thats what should be aimed for. Off map, here be fucking dragons.
 

undecaf

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
I agree that the player should be given the responsibility if finding things out, but then again, I also think quest markers and a compass could be understood as the characters sense of direction and understanding of the hints he’s been given as to where the sought for location is if it’s not outright spelled out. This’d call for a relevant skilltest and a certain degree of fallibility and uncertainty: ”I guess it could be somewhere around here.” (Pointing at a larger spot on the map so as to hint the player where should start combing the area, if he has built the character right - i.e. enough points in a mapping skill - but not giving it all out on a plate.) At least it’d be gameplayrelated and an earned benefit instead of just something that’s handed out.
 
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Zombra

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I also think quest markers and a compass could be understood as the characters sense of direction and understanding of the hints he’s been given as to where the sought for location is
This is a very prestigious interpretation. Just like we don't have to tie our character's shoes in a game - our character handles that on his own - we don't necessarily have to comprehend directions we've been given - the character remembers them. This level of abstraction can be completely fine if done consciously - I see it in pen-and-paper gaming all the time. "The guard tells you the way to the palace." "OK, we go there." A lot of CRPGs in fact do deliberately abstract directions by having an NPC say something like, "Let me mark the dungeon's location on your map." Great, we can spin that out and accept that the person gave explicit enough directions that the character now knows exactly where he's going. My issue is when there's absolutely no nod to why my character knows something and a marker appears magically, with zero justification for its existence. And this happens all the damn time.

-----------

While I'm thinking about it, The Secret World (now Secret World Legends) often does map markers brilliantly, with precision defined by how good your instructions were. If you find a note saying the amulet is hidden somewhere behind the barn, you may see a map marker that leads to the backyard, but once you're vaguely in the area the marker disappears. Even your minimap may show a huge red circle that tells you this is the right barn and that's it. Now start searching.
 

Iznaliu

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While I'm thinking about it, The Secret World (now Secret World Legends) often does map markers brilliantly, with precision defined by how good your instructions were. If you find a note saying the amulet is hidden somewhere behind the barn, you may see a map marker that leads to the backyard, but once you're vaguely in the area the marker disappears. Even your minimap may show a huge red circle that tells you this is the right barn and that's it. Now start searching.

Most developers wold probably see implementing anything resembling this as too much effort and something that will please nobody, even if I think players will actually warm to it.
 

undecaf

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
While I'm thinking about it, The Secret World (now Secret World Legends) often does map markers brilliantly, with precision defined by how good your instructions were. If you find a note saying the amulet is hidden somewhere behind the barn, you may see a map marker that leads to the backyard, but once you're vaguely in the area the marker disappears. Even your minimap may show a huge red circle that tells you this is the right barn and that's it. Now start searching.

I would apply the characters map reading and comprehension skills (against the difficulty of the instructions) to determine the precision of the marker. Otherwise that sounds pretty neat.
 

Iznaliu

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I would apply the characters map reading and comprehension skills (against the difficulty of the instructions) to determine the precision of the marker. Otherwise that sounds pretty neat.

I don't really think it's necessary to have a seperate "map reading" skill; I would combine it into a general mapping skill that also affects the radius of what is marked on your map when walking into unknown areas.
 

Paul_cz

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Jan 26, 2014
Messages
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Quest compass and marker, when they are introduced, should be optional, so that you would be able to turn them off and enjoy a more oldschool feel.

Unfortunately,that would require more work from the devs. The NPCs would have to actually tell us where to go, how to find important locations (like they used to do in Morrowind or Gothic). Travel directions would have to be recorded, voiced etc. Without it turning off the quest compass would make the game quite unplayable - or you would have to rely on bumping by accident on the proper locations.

What really irritates me is not even quest compass but GPS that leads you to your next quest by picking the easiest route. It really infuriated me in Witcher 3. I want to choose my own path!
And you can!

Seriously the first thing I did starting it was turning off most of the UI nonsense in the options menu and modding minimap to only appear when using witcher sense so I can actually enjoy the surroundings.

By the way, Outcast implemented really cool way to find direction, you can ask any NPC and they procedurally tell you where to go. Why more games didn't implement similar system is beyond me.
 
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Iznaliu

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 28, 2016
Messages
3,686
Why more games didn't implement similar system is beyond me.

Because having the same kind of reply from a drunken old man and a 3-year-old girl is beyond ridiculous?
Because it is impossible to account for this and 18 years since Outcast is nothing and no improvements can ever be made?

Doing that would waste a lot of time and effort that could be used for more important stuff, like polishing the core gameplay loop.
 

Deflowerer

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2013
Messages
2,052
Just give me a blank fucking map with some key locations written down like a real world map and let me annotate and add markers to it as I wish.

Also every quest and location should be designed as if the player lacked automap and quest compass.
 

Iznaliu

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 28, 2016
Messages
3,686
Just give me a blank fucking map with some key locations written down like a real world map and let me annotate and add markers to it as I wish.

That is a good idea, but it is also a surefire way to wreck your game's sales if it isn't highly niche.
 

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