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Real-Time with Pause is Garbag...eh forgetit.

Ontopoly

Disco Hitler
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
2,993
Location
Fairy land
You don't know who are you deeling with. I'm one of the pillars of RPG Codex, untouchable! I know this is hard to swallow, but you are just an Ontopoly, not a J_C. Deal with it

Is this suppose to be an intimidation technique? From the guy who can't even handle criticism of a video that he didn't even make?

You couldn't even word your own arguments. You just relied on some YouTuber to do it. At least the people who criticised your idols video did it with their own words.

People who edit the thread after are cowards, it wasn't "for the lulz"
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
7,523
Am i the only one who sees some tranny in a store in the OP? :lol:
He realised nobody liked the video his idol posted do he's quivering behind some meme video. What a pussy.
I was a little disappointed to see that one of the last bastion of good cRPGs, Codexians can't realise how shitty RTWP can be. It was also surprising, because the video has good points (e.g action queues - just see how great 7.62 is which uses this feature). So yeah, I decided to edit out the video for the lulz.
I would've just blamed Infinitron.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
16,947
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Is this suppose to be an intimidation technique? From the guy who can't even handle criticism of a video that he didn't even make?

You couldn't even word your own arguments. "
Jesus Christ, have a sense of humor. We are just busting balls here.There is nothing I hate more than someone who takes himself too seriously on the Codex.

Put the video back to how it was J_C or your a certified coward
Fine, just don't hurt me more.
 

Serious_Business

Best Poster on the Codex
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
3,909
Location
Frown Town
An Emotional Thread I see. Someone must administer a Beating in the name of Love

Well, I don't like this guy myself either. He tries to be Sseth but fails miserably ; also he is a vulgar young cunt : every of his goddamn videos seem to start about some personal life anecdote, which is rather fucking annoying. I may not sound like it but I dislike vulgarity and when I speak my words consist exclusively in well-cultivated lyrical ambrosia and supreme strategic positioning through masterful, calculated discourse. If you're going to present yourself or your voice they better be pleasant somehow ; don't show everyone how self-aware and miserable you are. Yes indeed my friend, aesthetics is everything ; en dernier recours, we must even make you cry so that our cold hearts may feel a release
 

Lurker47

Savant
Joined
Jul 30, 2017
Messages
721
Location
Texas
If you want an example of a RTwP combat system done right in an rpg just play 7.62 High Calibre, in fact i would go as far as to say that people who haven't played it don't even know what good rtwp combat looks like.
Give me more good examples.

I wish i knew more :negative: there is also Brigade E5 made by the same devs, but it's really just a less polished version of high calibre, if you want good rtwp combat you're better off looking for it in tactical games then in rpgs.
Well, there we go.
 

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest
I can't stand this guy. I really can't. Everything about him is designed to upset me on some fundamental level, like he was created specifically to piss me off. His voice, the way his delivery is, like he has that smarmy faggoty "I like to be sarcastic and then laugh while I'm being sarcastic" tone. God, what an asshole. Absolute prick.

There's a good discussion to be had around RTwP but this fucker coming at it like it's comparable to American football or wondering why melee characters are fighting in melee range or how come skeletons and jobber trash mobs aren't employing Navy Seal tactics isn't the guy to do it. He's just another blockhead that is gonna say some dumbshit and his Patreon fanbase will treat it as gospel even though a lot of what he says is less about RTwP's shortcomings and more about him being unable to accept that he may have an untreated learning disability.

And his stupid fucking MMO terms and expectations. "Has to target my tank, not backline!" in one breath and then, "every fight feels the same!" in another. Make up your mind, dickhead. The chaos is part of the appeal.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,574
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
In RTwP, the opponent doesn't wait for the player to act.
Therefore, in TB opponent does wait for player to act - but conversely, player waits for opponent to act as well. The price of mistake is way higher - if you fucked up on your turn, you can do diddly-squat during the opponents' turn and have to content with your character paying for your mistake. RTwP is way forgivable.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,574
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
Sweeper in Underrail - being an exquisite TB RPG - you can play glass cannon with 3 CON, zero defensive skills and light armor fully offensively, facing alone a dozen guys because the level of planning and control in TB allows that. What RTwP game allows for such playing style?
 
Unwanted

Sweeper

Unwanted
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
2,394
What RTwP game allows for such playing style?
Oh you know, Diablo 2, Grim Dawn, Titan Quest...
:troll:
The reason you can't do it with a glass canon isn't because they're RTwP, it's because every RTwP game feature parties of 6 members and classes and the games are designed around that.
Although you can solo BG2 with a mage, PoE with a monk on PotD. Can't solo shit on Kingmaker Unfair, but you could on lower difficulties prolly.
 
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
2,509
Location
The Present
In RTwP, the opponent doesn't wait for the player to act.
Therefore, in TB opponent does wait for player to act - but conversely, player waits for opponent to act as well. The price of mistake is way higher - if you fucked up on your turn, you can do diddly-squat during the opponents' turn and have to content with your character paying for your mistake. RTwP is way forgivable.

Both have to suffer the consequences of their actions. Just because the RTwP player can see problems sooner, doesn't mean they will be able to intervene successfully or without consequence. This is easier to observe in modern games like Pillars of Eternity than in the older IE games. Each advantage has a reciprocal disadvantage, so neither is more punitive. RTwP has quick resolution because it is very dynamic, multivariable, and simultaneous. Some players find it messy and demanding, rather than efficient and exciting. TB has precise resolution, but is less responsive, slower, and linear. Some find that tedious, which is why animation speeds are so frequently complained about. Again, it comes down to preference. The OP and the creator of the video they linked prefer the later.
 
Last edited:

Oberon

Learned
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
253
Location
Helheim
As much as I love TB games, retrofitting it into a game built around RTwP doesn't really work. It worked better on Kingmaker than on Deadfire simply because Kingmaker's system was already built to accommodate it, but in PoE they had to completely Frankenstien the attributes and affects duration systems.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
RTWP is awesomesauce.

TB is awesomesauce.

All games that aren't sports games that are RT are shit. PURE SHIT.

Yes, looking at you Mario. :)j/k or am I?)
 

Artyoan

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 16, 2017
Messages
635
final fantasy 12 had the best system
If you play it with the Struggle for Freedom mod it is legitimately good. I still prefer turn based but this game and mod showed me that RTWP can be done well if positioning is de-emphasized.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
RTwP: you play a party, pause the game, execute orders and everyone, including the enemy, move simultaneously and you can react and adjust actions on the fly.
Simultaneous execution without a clusterfuck of brittle overwatch, interrupt, AoO, etc. rules and lack of reaction delay are without doubts advantages of RTwP (or any other RT) system.
But in practice they are eclipsed by the sheer awkwardness of it.

And, of course, it goes without saying that adapting TB to RTWP while still retaining inherent coarseness of underlying (TB) mechanics (like in IE games) is just fucking atrocity with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
:fight:
Good for simulating the chaos of a battle, but on the downside it can also lead to frustrating clusterfuck and it's easy to misclick and can be hard to keep track of things in large battles.
RT without P is even better at simulating the chaos of battle. It also doesn't inherit the main drawback of RTwP which is mashing pause. It is lousy at allowing player execute complex tactics, though. Because it's so good at simulating chaos of battle.

RTwP mostly fails by trying to have it both ways. Both RT and TB/PB are just better for their respective niches.

What could be a genuinely good RTw* system, though, without it being a political marriage of incompatible traits working cross-purposes, would be a real time with slo-mo.
Basically, you have RT system where, instead of (or besides) pause you have ability to quickly and fluently adjust game speed (panic mode and snap back to 1x included). That means you could adjust the pace to allow effectively the same flow of control as RTWP, but without having to pause and unpause the game several times a second (game time), it would just flow at the rate where player could stay responsive and in control, without artificiality and annoyance of pausing.
 

Sarathiour

Cipher
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
3,262
What could be a genuinely good RTw* system, though, without it being a political marriage of incompatible traits working cross-purposes, would be a real time with slo-mo.

Tower of time kinda did that, by letting you choose between slow-mo and pause.
Though it was hindered by the game design being way too close from generic moba trash.
 

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