Recommend me a Wizardry ripoff

[felicity]

I would stay off from Wizardry 8 if you find SMT combat too tedious. Encounter in Wizardry 8 are less frequent but they take ten times longer to finish even with the wizfast patch. Most SMT's combat can be finished in less than 30 sec, and most can be avoided by fleeing (which takes about 3-5 secs) or casting a certain spell that keeps you safe from random encounter unless it's higher level than you. Overall SMT combat is a lot less tedious than Wizardry.

The really bad thing about SMT is, you need to grind to recruit demons, and without a faq demon fusion is a hit-or-miss thing because the fusion rule is fucking convoluted (there's only fusion rule for race anyway, no stats/skills which make it pointless). So don't expect to have the same party customization like you have in Wizardry. Also demons don't grow, no level advancement or anything. Once your demons are out-leveled, you have to grind for replacement. There is skill inheritage but the rules are, surprise, even more convoluted. Demons can't use or equip items either, so less inventory management for you.

Another problem is the dungeon design, or the lack of. There are very few interesting puzzles in SMT's dungeons, most "puzzles" are teleporter, holes that drop you to another floor and the like. The dungeons in SMT serve mostly to disorientate than being interesting itself.

Wizardry is guilty of this at times but believe me SMT is ten times worse. It almost seems like creating boring dungeons is their motto.

 

[nomask7]

Most SMT's combat can be finished in less than 30 sec, and most can be avoided by fleeing (which takes about 3-5 secs) or casting a certain spell that keeps you safe from random encounter unless it's higher level than you.

In other words, the utterly pointless filler combat that doesn't actually fill anything and shouldn't be in the game in the first place can be avoided (with a spell).

Overall SMT combat (is a lot less tedious than Wizardry).

You call that combat?

 

[ghostdog]

Yes SMt has a lot of grinding but it also has challenging battles. I admit that I've stopped playing Nocturne after 30 hours in the game, but the good part is that apart from the many filler battles it also has many "boss" fights. And in order to win most of them you really have to be prepared and have a strategy or you'll get your ass kicked. That said, some of the fusion mechanics and especially the skill heritage are frustrating since they involve a lot of trial and error in order to make the demon you want with the skills you want.

Overall I liked the first 2 SMT better than Nocturne. They even had better characters and more well structured C&C than nocturne. (Also the english translation in SMT3 is horrible, I had to read a FAQ that translated the jap version to understand the meaning of many of the sentences.)

 

[nomask7]

I haven't played SMT's, but I've played some other JRPGs, and random encounters are usually so easy it takes less time to kill the monsters than to flee. In battles that are even remotely challenging, fleeing takes an eternity (unless you're lucky or something), while the monsters keep clawing your character's backs while your characters try to escape. The only exception I know is The 7th Saga, with each encounter so difficult as a rule that multiple encounters were always potentially lethal (except in old areas). When you tried to flee, it wasn't because you were bored, rather the complete opposite was the case. Of course, in most cases you were dead before you were gone from the battle field when you tried to flee. Fortunately, the encounters were moving spots on the minimap that I was sometimes able to avoid for very long periods of time, always with sweat pouring everywhere.

 

[felicity]

SMT has better combat than most JRPG but it also has a lot more random encounters. Yes there is an easily attainable spell that keeps those random encounter from poping up (at least in the first two SMT, haven't played Nocturne yet). The combat system in SMT feels a bit like rock-paper-scissor, but it has an ok magic resistance mechanic. There are reflect/immunity/resistance/absorb on top of accuracy (you can miss your target with magic in SMT). Besides magic, many demons have skills that don't require mp to use. Buff and debuff are reasonably powerful as well as status inflicting spells/skills.

I think overall combat in SMT1-2 is a bit on the lower side with occasionally challenging combat. But I heard Nocturne's combat is very unforgiving. To me SMT feels more like a combat simulator, the focus is on fusing the right demons and beating the various monsters.

 

[ghostdog]

SMT's are unlike most jRPG''s and they are also fortunately rid of most jRPG story/characters cliches and FFstyle stories. They sort of follow their own style and mythology. They are mostly dungeon crawlers with a lot of grinding, but they also have some lite C&C, sides to choose and a mixture of occult/post apoc/cyberpunk? themes. The fusion mechanic is really interesting and some of the battles are challenging in a refreshing way.

Expect a huge amount of grinding though and dungeons that try to fuck with you, like being completely dark or having traps that throw you to previous levels, etc. Many battles will finish in seconds and really they are there only to help you with demon recruiting and further fusions. I believe that the first two games are worth a try. They have a decent fan translation and with an snes emulator and save states things get less frustrating.

 

[Flux_Capacitor]

Based on your requirements, there are actually very few. I don't think any of the games you listed even meet them. The automap feature generally didn't become available until relatively late in this genre's development, and even then, many games still didn't feature it. Also, not many allow sidestepping.

However, here are a few others that I didn't see mentioned, which loosely fit what you asked for:

- Dragon Wars - a sequel of sorts to the Bard's Tale series. Has Wasteland-style skill use.
- Dungeon Hack - a kind of cross between a rogue-like and Eye of the Beholder. Only one character, though
- Devil Whiskey - an indie Bard's Tale-like. I've fooled around a bit with the demo, but its not bad
- Mines of Titan - a futuristic setting. You are usually in first person, but in some areas its top-down. Probably only mediocre, at best
- Dungeons and Dragons: Warriors of the Eternal Sun (Genesis) - first person while indoors, top-down while outdoors. A pretty decent console RPG
- Silvern Castle - an indie Wizardry-like. It came out for the Apple II a couple years back, and can be a bit difficult to get up and running the first time.

 

[felicity]

Someone mentioned Incursion. I just goggled it and found the monk class description:

Evasion -- Starting at 1st level, when a monk successfully makes a Reflex saving throw against an area-effect attack that allows a Reflex save for half damage

Sounds familiar? :shock:
Well I like 3ed anyway so I may give it a try.

 

[Zeus]

By Wizardry ripoff, I mean a blob-with-arms-and-legs game where you mostly move through block mazes, stepwise, in a first person view. If the combat goes to another "playing field" like Ultima III or RoA, that's fine.

How about Doom?

My needs:
1) Automap

Check.

2) Sufficient friendliness to be played with zero FAQ reading, character advice, etc. A quality manual that I don't have to supplement by reading dusty FAQs from the mid-'90s is a necessity.

Check.

3) Clean graphics, particularly no shitty early 3D viewed through a postage-stamp-sized hole in the UI or monsters that look like a triangle and a dog fucked. No shitty early '90s eyecandy where I have to watch the same lengthy, shitty animation a million times, either. Wireframes are OK, no monster graphics at all would be fine also.

Doom had really good graphics for its time.

4) Controls must allow sidestepping/strafing in addition to turning. Not having that drives me crazy.

Check.

All kidding aside, have you tried Arcanum for SNES? It's the only first-person maze RPG I ever beat. I can't remember if it has side stepping, but it has an interesting party system (with elemental spirits trapped in "cards" that do the magic casting for you).

There's a few backstabbing plot twists, nice music, and the towns are handled like the Genesis game Shining in the Darkness (mentioned above).

The best thing about it are the levels. They're not just your standard dungeons. You get swanky mansions and outdoors mazes -- forests and foggy canyons and stuff. I loved that game.

 

[Andhaira]

Realms of Arkania series is also a very good choice.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

All kidding aside, have you tried the Final Fantasy series?

 

[Jacob]

Grimoire - unfinished straight-away Wizardry 6-7 clone, a playable '98 beta demo was floating around a couple of months ago.

I've never heard of this game, thanks for the info.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Recommend me a Wizardry ripoff

By Wizardry ripoff, I mean a blob-with-arms-and-legs game where you mostly move through block mazes, stepwise, in a first person view. If the combat goes to another "playing field" like Ultima III or RoA, that's fine. I've played only a few of them, so there should be plenty left. I don't actually like the minigenre that much, but I figure I'll probably like whichever one is considered the shining example.

My needs:

1) Automap
2) Sufficient friendliness to be played with zero FAQ reading, character advice, etc. A quality manual that I don't have to supplement by reading dusty FAQs from the mid-'90s is a necessity.
3) Clean graphics, particularly no shitty early 3D viewed through a postage-stamp-sized hole in the UI or monsters that look like a triangle and a dog fucked. No shitty early '90s eyecandy where I have to watch the same lengthy, shitty animation a million times, either. Wireframes are OK, no monster graphics at all would be fine also.
4) Controls must allow sidestepping/strafing in addition to turning. Not having that drives me crazy.

No ...

Spoiler

Ok, you could try Elminage Gothic, it's not very good but i think it's a match, enjoy ...

 

[tindrli]

Mordor II: Darkness Awakening

fuck this game brings me memories

you can also try this one i played shit of it.. still play it from time to time

 

[Contagium]

Mordor II: Darkness Awakening

fuck this game brings me memories

you can also try this one i played shit of it.. still play it from time to time

Is this playable on newer systems? Looks amazing

 

[tindrli]

Mordor II: Darkness Awakening

fuck this game brings me memories

you can also try this one i played shit of it.. still play it from time to time

Is this playable on newer systems? Looks amazing

i dont know about Mordor but Demise is working

 

[Serus]

Grimoire - unfinished straight-away Wizardry 6-7 clone, a playable '98 beta demo was floating around a couple of months ago.

I've never heard of this game, thanks for the info.

Those are some mighty necromantic powers you have there!

 

[ManaJunkie]

Swords and Sorcery - Underworld
the mentioned Devil Whiskey
M&M X
Grimoire (yup, its good..... for the target audience of Wiz lovers)

 

[mondblut]

Is this playable on newer systems? Looks amazing

Mordor bears all the markings of a 16-bit Win3.1 program, so probably not, unless you install Win3.1 in dosbox.

 

[Ranarama]

Is this playable on newer systems? Looks amazing

Mordor bears all the markings of a 16-bit Win3.1 program, so probably not, unless you install Win3.1 in dosbox.

Played it as recently as WinXP.

 

[Serus]

Recommend me a Wizardry ripoff

By Wizardry ripoff, I mean a blob-with-arms-and-legs game where you mostly move through block mazes, stepwise, in a first person view. If the combat goes to another "playing field" like Ultima III or RoA, that's fine. I've played only a few of them, so there should be plenty left. I don't actually like the minigenre that much, but I figure I'll probably like whichever one is considered the shining example.

My needs:

1) Automap
2) Sufficient friendliness to be played with zero FAQ reading, character advice, etc. A quality manual that I don't have to supplement by reading dusty FAQs from the mid-'90s is a necessity.
3) Clean graphics, particularly no shitty early 3D viewed through a postage-stamp-sized hole in the UI or monsters that look like a triangle and a dog fucked. No shitty early '90s eyecandy where I have to watch the same lengthy, shitty animation a million times, either. Wireframes are OK, no monster graphics at all would be fine also.
4) Controls must allow sidestepping/strafing in addition to turning. Not having that drives me crazy.

No ...

Spoiler

Ok, you could try Elminage Gothic, it's not very good but i think it's a match, enjoy ...

Or Elminage Original, both have pc version now. I think. Or perhaps Original can be easily emulated. I remember playing it on my pc. Anyway if not for the insane rate of random encounters typical for many japanese games (and shitty interface that was never changed for pc - use a pad to play the game) it's a very, very solid blobber/dungeon crawler.

 

[mondblut]

Is this playable on newer systems? Looks amazing

Mordor bears all the markings of a 16-bit Win3.1 program, so probably not, unless you install Win3.1 in dosbox.

Played it as recently as WinXP.

He said "newer"

In practice, that means 64-bit ones, which can't handle 16-bit programs.

 

[ProphetSword]

Swords and Sorcery - Underworld
the mentioned Devil Whiskey
M&M X
Grimoire (yup, its good..... for the target audience of Wiz lovers)

All games that didn't yet exist when the person who started this thread was asking for games. If only he could have propelled himself into the future.

 

[ManaJunkie]

Swords and Sorcery - Underworld
the mentioned Devil Whiskey
M&M X
Grimoire (yup, its good..... for the target audience of Wiz lovers)

All games that didn't yet exist when the person who started this thread was asking for games. If only he could have propelled himself into the future.

Ohhh, sorry. Didn´t know this person isn´t capable of such basic abilities. My fault!

 

[aweigh]

Zomg

Elminage Original (Steam/PC)

Elminage Gothic (Steam/Windows PC)

Stranger of Sword City (Steam/Windows PC)

***Wizardry Empire 2 (Windows PC/download it from filthy piracy websites and then download English patch from romhacking.net)***

***Wizardry Gaiden 4: Throb Of The Demon's Heart (SNES/download it from filthy piracy websites and then download English patch from romhacking.net)***

Operation Abyss (Steam/Windows PC)

Operation Babel (Steam/Windows PC)

The Dark Spire (Nintendo DS)

Wizardry: Labyrinth Of Lost Souls (PS3)

Wizardry: Tale Of The Forsaken Land (PS2)

***Wizardry Chronicle (Windows PC/download it from filthy piracy websites and then download English patch from romhacking.net)***

Paper Sorcerer (Windows PC/haven't checked if it's on Steam, it probably is)

StarCrawlers (Steam/Windows PC)

*** = requires that you apply an English patch

--------------------------------

NOT WIZ-CLONE BUT VERY GOOD AND PROBABLY ALSO OF INTEREST TO YOU:

Devil Whiskey: The Bard's Legacy (Windows PC/this is a spiritual successor to the Bard's Tale series of games and plays like a modernized, NOT dumbed down, version of BT games and highly recommended)