Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

*redacted*

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
*redacted*
 
Last edited:

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Cassidy said:
This isn't just the case of a war enemy refusing to surrender like with Japan in WW2. In this scenario, the enemy refuses to give up invasion attempts against Vinland, while Vinland does not have yet the means and population large enough to project conventional power overseas. Only some mushrooms would ensure lasting peace.
But we have radar coverage along with naval and air superiority. How they would even reach us if no technology leaks occur anymore?

And if they still do, we'd better start working on space satellites and orbital defences soon.

They would have run out of manpower eventually (how many able-bodied men can you muster in 5 years after total defeat?), and their own logistical and economical problems would do them in.

Besides, Freyjanna was always totally set on doing it and only undecided about where. Otherwise there would be an option to not do it. Seriously, after all the risks taken to get the main nuclear physicist back, did you really think she would just go "nuking others to ensure enduring freedom and peace for our people is evil so I won't support it."? Seriously?
Oh, no, I am very much in favor of using them, just on military targets (say, the invasion fleets).

It would be less effective than wiping out their holy cities and crippling the foundation of their faith, that much is granted, but as far as the demonstration of power goes, it should have sufficed. They have no answer to that.

Eh, it is all pretty minor in a grand scheme of things. How many people were there in 1100 AD, anyway? About a million of people in Rome and half a million in Constantinopol, or so I presume.

Will you also hesitate like a bunch of libruls about what must be done whenever xenos threaten mankind?
Well, I have enough awareness to know Vinland does not represent mankind, being only a tiny part of it. We are the ones who are xenos. Unless we are willing to purge the Earth from untermenschen completely (since we abolished slavery and can't use them as beasts of burden), we might as well try to maintain relationships with the rest of them and bring them to our level eventually, wrestling them from under control of extra-planars and -terrestrials. We will have to stand united against the Gods and Horrors.

Sarah and Jacob were sleazebags, but they had the right idea about the World Government. If we are breaking timelines left and right, might as well do something that was not attempted in the official one.

"One last thing Freyjanna," he added, "there are more different things in your body than what the exams we have available can more or less identify, but ultimately, you are still very much human. This technology implanted in your body is amazing, for I believe what you have inside you are cell-like machines capable of functioning like living organisms that both altered your previously existing cells, fused with them, and, like many natural bacteria in our bodies, coexist with you.
Nanomachines? This is getting better by the minute.

Do we still have regenerative powers? If we make a cut, how fast does it close? Faster than before? What about poisons and sicknesses? Can we regenerate on a cellular level (as in, can we cure cancer)?

Are these implants uniquely adjusted to our own body?

Also, what about the modifications to our skin? Have we become knife-proof or something? I would assume whoever did this at least had the foresight to not have Freijanna cut herself on her own nails.

While the things involving her were disgusting and traumatic to be seen again in written form
That is a bit surprising to hear. I am still struggling to understand the relation between Frey, Angy and IA. From what I remember, they do not have vivid memories of each other's experiences, and current Angy's body is not really Frey's real body, so there is not 'muscle memory' to speak of. Why would it make it so uncomfoirtable for Angy, then? It should be no more inconvenient than when he remembered it for the first time.

Just trying to figure out how to preserve our SAN which I feel is sinking lower and lower with each choice.

Maybe this was some kind of lecherous defense against anyone trying to take valuable information from this device, forcing anyone looking for schematics or scientific knowledge to dive first through piles of files involving debauchery without any moral limits.
This should become a new military-grade encryption standard. :salute:

It's ingenious. The enemy will come for the intelligence, but will be derailed by all the porn and forget what they wanted to do in the first place. And even if they download a top-secret schematics, they will stay for longer to grab a movie or two as well, giving the reaction team more time to apprehend them. GJ, Sarah!

She watched the first monoplane taking off and landing successfully. She commended the proliferation of punch card computers, the heavy researches, the first transistor.
So we are somewhere in the fifties or sixties of the OTL, research-wise. Are there electric guitars? Can we simply conquer the world with the power of Rock a few years from now?

No god stopped the atomic mushroom from annihilating all churches, from burning down Rome and Miklagard and, in, as a razed city for reasons they would never understand, Chersonesus.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

We probably did if for fun and evulz.

The bombs on Miklagard and Rome brought more than mere mass destruction and indiscriminate slaughter, they brought much more than that. The physical destruction was ultimately collateral, for the true devastation happened on an immaterial level. Whether this would shatter the backwards and oppressive Christian faiths or lead their remnants to an even darker age was of no concern.
So, basically, ready your burkas and hail the religion of peace? :lol:

Perhaps it is time we renewed our arrangements with the middle-eastern countries, seeing how they will reign supreme on the continent due to our actions.

1C. - Honestly, I want to concentrate on Earhly matters because our research capabilities far outstrip our economical and societal ones. FFS, it is only 5 years since we decided not to engage in slave trade. We are a nation that has about a few millions of people, at most, yet hoards 95% of technologies. We can never make full use of them unless we organize a population boom or something. That, or we make a dash for sentient robots that will do all the work for us. Because that can never go wrong. :lol:

Unfortunately, the choice to settle for our own planet is worded as dismissing the satellite idea as a waste of resourses. Myself, I think it's great, just a bit ahead of its time.

We can map the continent with planes just as easily, and with railroads in the near future it would matter little if the cities are founded in 'best possible' locations or not.

2B. - Yeah, let's see what they have to say for themselves. Alexis has probably perished in the nuclear fires, I wonder who runs them now and why they are at war with Hungary of all countires.

3A. - Sure, let's hear them as well.

4B. - Use them as a deterrence. The secret will eventually leak, we'd better get used to modern sensibilities regarding their application.

5A. - We are still Angartyr. Grab a shotgun and get to work.

Nobody's will can withstand five years of slavery, specially when they were just small children when it first happened.
Bitch, please. Five years of slavery is nothing. Carl and his people have likely seen worse, and we've been through so much shit being a superhuman does not even start to compensate.

If they aren't fit for societal life anymore, we will make a xeno extermination squad out of them. :salute:

6A. - Can't we just commission reinforced gloves and metal-clad boots until our scientists discover Power Armor?
 
Last edited:

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
But we have radar coverage along with naval and air superiority. How they would even reach us if no technology leaks occur anymore?

Because they can't cover the entire American continent all the time. With ITZ, the European countries became extremely weary of both messing with Vinland and trying to colonize the New World. Maybe that is why the Iberian kingdoms which refused to hop in the big crusade sent diplomats to Vinland... maybe they already explored four centuries earlier the southern reaches of the New World mostly ignored by the Norses except for the Mexican Gulf and want to reach a formal agreement on borders between the colonies they would like to establish soon and Vinland. As for Hungary, who knows?

And if they still do, we'd better start working on space satellites and orbital defences soon.

Why is Iceland unable to go into space? Vinland is currently in the same boat although their population is at least twice larger than the population of modern Iceland. Sure, that population will multiply at least tenfold by the dawn of the 13th century, but even a 10-20 mi country doing a space program on their own would have one hell of a challenge. The option to start investing in space rockets would involve some very long term planning to accomodate the economical limitations of Vinland. Like 30-50 years at least to fund and finish the construction of the first satellite.

Eh, it is all pretty minor in a grand scheme of things. How many people were there in 1100 AD, anyway?

Less than 100,000 in Rome and 300,000 - 800,000 at most in Constantinople.

Nanomachines?

All along. IA could be described as a cluster of Eldritch nanomachines that have a geometric form in over 5 dimensions at least.

Do we still have regenerative powers? If we make a cut, how fast does it close? Faster than before? What about poisons and sicknesses? Can we regenerate on a cellular level (as in, can we cure cancer)?

Freyjanna holding a lump of enriched uranium with her bare hands is still a very bad idea, and wound recovery may have been improved, but not in a level where it will make a big difference during the middle of a firefight like if this was a fanfic of a :popamole: game , only in the sense broken bones will take much less time to be recovered, for example. And bleedings that would have been deadly before probably won't any longer.

Are these implants uniquely adjusted to our own body?

Of course.

Also, what about the modifications to our skin? Have we become knife-proof or something?

Skin and muscles became tougher to be penetrated by blades and completely safe to scratching, but a strongman stabbing with enough force will still do a lot of damage. The only big deal is that the odds of a gunshot causing bone fractures became much smaller and there is a chance of the augmented ribs stopping a bullet from hitting the heart or other vital organs covered by the ribs and spine, but you can't just make a bulleproof vest with the same thickness of human skin and expect it to stop a bullet, for example.

That is a bit surprising to hear. I am still struggling to understand the relation between Frey, Angy and IA. From what I remember, they do not have vivid memories of each other's experiences, and current Angy's body is not really Frey's real body, so there is not 'muscle memory' to speak of. Why would it make it so uncomfoirtable for Angy, then? It should be no more inconvenient than when he remembered it for the first time.

Let's say that Sarah did not spare any details in the way she described everything. Instead that content was even more "embellished" than what actually happened. Thanks to the gods fedoras and MLP don't exist in this universe.

:M

how to preserve our SAN

Avoiding obvious traps, dark gods, xenos and degenerates unless absolutely necessary.

So we are somewhere in the fifties or sixties of the OTL, research-wise.

In the same way Thief 2: The Metal Age is in OTL Industrial Revolution. Some fields still have to catch up. Aircrafts are still in the 40s, same on cars and trains. Televisions were not yet invented, and maybe there will be a straight jump from radio to Internet.

:incline:

So, basically, ready your burkas and hail the religion of peace? :lol:

Either that or massive migratory waves of Cathars, Bogomils, proto-Hussites, Gnostics, etc begging for Vinland to allow them to move in as the remnants of the Catholic and Orthodox churchs crack hard on a boom of HERESY!!! within christendom... and if Vinland refuses they may just sail farther to the south and establish their own colonies in desperation. If that happens, how to deal with it will be massively important. Going full xenophobia or on the other incloosive extreme will be available choices, as well as intermediaries between them.

Perhaps it is time we renewed our arrangements with the middle-eastern countries, seeing how they will reign supreme on the continent due to our actions.

Except technology was not evenly distributed through the Old World. All Muslim countries are still horribly backwards in arms compared to all the useful stuff the Europeans not removed from Vinland's tech inventory and the kebab won't be that scary, even for post-ITZ Constantinople, once they meet Tagmatas manning machineguns to defend what is left of the Byzantine Empire. Now that Vinland turned a bust and Rome is in cinders, in fact, those who still did not lose their faith will most certainly turn their attention towards the "only truly holy city", which of course is Jerusalem. An centuries ahead of its time protestant Reformation is far more likely than Sharia in UK.

population boom[...]or we make a dash for sentient robots that will do all the work for us. Because that can never go wrong.

If you want it to happen faster than otherwise, would you rather take chances with sentient machines or welcoming unorthodox Christians fleeing from religious persecution abroad?

:M

We can map the continent with planes just as easily

Of course. Next update will include a choice between going all the way to the Pacific Coast or going for all of the East Coast, territories given to the Wyandot as reward for their support in the war excepted.

Alexis has probably perished in the nuclear fires

Not necessarily, but a walking skeleton will never be able to become a Basileus.
 
Last edited:

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Yeah, if it is a long-term program and we aren't going crazy with the investments, count me in for 1A too.

Because they can't cover the entire American continent all the time.
What territory do we and Wyandot currently occupy?

In fact, a crude political map with our allies/enemies on it would be handy (if it isn't too much trouble, of course) because I am starting to get a bit lost. My knowledge is limited when it comes to geopolitics in XIIth century, let alone in a fictional universe. If it is too much busywork, then just a list of allies, potential allies, neutaltards and enemies would do.

While we are at it, what territories does the Holy Roman Empire currently occupy? How long until it breaks up into different states and can the process be facilitated?

Why is Iceland unable to go into space? Vinland is currently in the same boat although their population is at least twice larger than the population of modern Iceland.
Wait, we number less than a million? That's... disturbing. Hopefully, the emancipated slaves will contribute to the boom.

How did that go, by the way? What is the status of our civil affairs? Are the slaves counted towards 'Norsemen' as far as their rights go, or are they still discriminated against on a genetic basis?

We need to do something about this feeling of superiority our people have, being all KKK-like does not help economics very much. Some sort of encouragement to absorb the foreigners in our society more easily. :incloosive:

Less than 100,000 in Rome
I hope you meant 1,000,000 or I have missed some major exterminatus. :?

Freyjanna holding a lump of enriched uranium with her bare hands is still a very bad idea
Why?

Well, I don't mean 'why being nuked is bad', that is obvious, but are we still succeptible to irradiation? That's what I meant by being able to regenerate on a cellular level.

Actually, is there any research on irradiation and its effects? The quote about 'bitter water' suggests that its ITZ effects haven't gone unnoticed.

How long until nuclear power plants?

Let's say that Sarah did not spare any details in the way she described everything. Instead that content was even more "embellished" than what actually happened.
So we got triggered just by reading words? :decline: How long until we start taking offence at everything?

In the same way Thief 2: The Metal Age is in OTL Industrial Revolution. Some fields still have to catch up. Aircrafts are still in the 40s, same on cars and trains. Televisions were not yet invented, and maybe there will be a straight jump from radio to Internet.
Yeah, I love how uneven it is - our research capabilities far outstrip our industrial ones. We are barely able to build a prototype device before it becomes obsolete.

I wonder what became of our steam ships that we commissioned about ten years ago. :lol:

Railroads, we need railroads and the ability to concentrate our efforts and resourses where they are most needed.

Cathars, Bogomils, proto-Hussites, Gnostics, etc begging for Vinland to allow them to move in as the remnants of the Catholic and Orthodox churchs crack hard on a boom of HERESY!!! within christendom...
Wait, do these guys even have the power and clout to enforce their will in the countries devastated by the unsuccessful war? I would expect the Roman Empire to fall apart after such a tremendous blow to the religion that held them together, and I would expect the religion to crack alongside similar lines. Or maybe its the other way around, the states will form around these new sects, since there is no idea of a nation to rally people around yet.

Who is going to come after heretics if everyone is a heretic?

and if Vinland refuses they may just sail farther to the south and establish their own colonies in desperation. If that happens, how to deal with it will be massively important.
:bounce::bounce::bounce:

Except technology was not evenly distributed through the Old World. All Muslim countries are still horribly backwards in arms compared to all the useful stuff the Europeans not removed from Vinland's tech inventory and the kebab won't be that scary, even for post-ITZ Constantinople, once they meet Tagmatas manning machineguns to defend what is left of the Byzantine Empire.
Actually, it is very interesting that the Muslims were completely ignored in this whole World War. I wonder why.

Did we find out if the war was a result of S&J's leakage of the tech, or if there were other factors involved? I am particularly interested in a role that the ancient horrors got to play in this mess.

As for being backwards... I am sure industrial espionage will take care of this in just a few years, and if europeans do not need extensive knowledge about firearms to produce and operate them, then the muslims will need neither.

The world surely has changed. :salute:

If you want it to happen faster than otherwise, would you rather take chances with sentient machines or welcoming unorthodox Christians fleeing from religious persecution abroad?
27e0190e1d0b5934efdc36d3b6ee2f25.jpg
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Sorry, missed the alert and it took me a bit of time to realize it's here.

5B) Yes. However, should any of the few kingdoms that were not played like puppets in the Great War by "Them" become allies of Vinland, to their kings and also to the king of Scandinavia, confide the truth, the terrible truth.
Wouldn't this be, technically, a violation of the agreement with 'Them', should we make one?

"While I will not kill you, I will let your fate serve as a warning to your decadent race of parasites and liars. Cut off... no, I have a better idea." at that point some guards in the hall already held the struggling diplomat, "surgically remove the vocal chords of this worm, and without anesthesia. Then let him go cry silently for revenge with the other worshipers of the false serpent god."
What the hell is this? Sending a message to these creatures and their servants is meaningless - they understand everything just fine. Doing it to satiate her inner sadist? I thought we were still playing Angartyr, that guy preferred to blow the enemies' brains out. :decline: This maiming is as inefficient as it is unrefined. :obviously:

The diplomat let an important piece of information out.
[...]We can spend decades, centuries, or if necessary thousands of years sacrificing more and more of our slaves who are unaware of their own servitude to us and to our great god, and if you want to remain at war with us forever, it is not a problem. The apes reproduce fast and are completely expendable. Refuse this treaty, and even if it takes a sacrifice of billions of those pets for us to take over your land, we shall eventually wear you out and win."
[...]
"Why would we offer you a fake deal if we could just keep doing what we already are doing anyway?
Indeed, why would they offer us a deal at all if they could continue doing what they were doing at the expense of their servants? It seems their position is not as strong as they want it to appear. On the other hand, they have an overwhelming numerical superiority on their side, and can simply destroy us through the war of atrition.

It is possible that if we refuse the treaty, they would still leave us largely alone (as in, won't engage in an all-out war) if we leave them a choice (as in, won't incite the population against them). In so doing, we would be able to engage in a number of alliances with the other countries.

However, should we accept the treaty, these options would be closed off to us, or the treaty becomes void.

Cassidy, if we accept the offer of their masters yet refuse the treaty with Miklagard, what can we expect? Since Miklagard is under their thumb, they can't make any moves against us. The offer of their masters forbid the travels and exchange of knowledge, so it's not like we can benefit from a trade, either. So what exactly does it affect?

So, 1B 2B

3C (refuse them but don't push it) > 3B (accept it with the intention to break it somewhere down the line - it is not a question of 'if', but 'when')
4B (if we refuse the deal in 3) > A (otherwise)
5B (if we refuse the deal in 3) > C (otherwise)
6D
It's just more people for us to assimilate once our empire grows big enough. :M
 
Last edited:

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
What the hell is this? Sending a message to these creatures and their servants is meaningless - they understand everything just fine. Doing it to satiate her inner sadist? I thought we were still playing Angartyr, that guy preferred to blow the enemies' brains out.

They tried to annihilate Vinland through the most devastating war in their entire history, they likely promoted all the atrocities and crimes against mankind committed against the people of Vinland. It's not satiating inner sadism as much as partly satiating an irresistible desire for vengeance and extermination. After everything that happened, after everything he has discovered, to put it shortly, Angartýr hates "Them" more than even the most fanatical Nazi ever hated the Jews and "Freyjanna" was really holding herself from killing the envoy as soon as he announced who he truly represented.

Cassidy, if we accept the offer of their masters yet refuse the treaty with Miklagard, what can we expect? Since Miklagard is under their thumb, they can't make any moves against us. The offer of their masters forbid the travels and exchange of knowledge, so it's not like we can benefit from a trade, either. So what exactly does it affect?

It is more of a symbolic gesture to indicate to the world the Great War is truly over, not much of a point to it if the secret treaty is signed with the puppeteers.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
"Freyjanna" was really holding herself from killing the envoy as soon as he announced who he truly represented.
Why did she, then? She has correctly stated that the fate of the treaty and that of a diplomat are unrelated. She could do whatever she wants with him and it would not matter a bit.

With a human envoy mistreating the messenger is a show of ultimate disrespect that has to be answered by an insulted ruler (and thus counter-productive to peace negotiations), but with 'Them' maintaining the appearance of mutual respect is hardly an issue and 'They' aren't really concerned with legitimacy in the eyes of their followers. They would have let the death of an ape slide as long as the conditions that matter to them are observed.

The death of a diplomat would likely have an effect on how Miklagard - that we are signing the treaty with, it seems - views us, but that is an gesture that is only meaningful to the rest of the world anyway.

What is the state of technolody in the outside world? As I roughly recall, they have WW1 tech available and reproducible (with no ability to innovate), while Scandinavia has roughly pre-WW2 tech (which will get stolen, eventually) due to our alliance. We are somewhere in the 70s or 80s. Just trying to figure out how much time we have before it all goes to hell again.

How much longer for human cloning? :M

Which countries do we have trading relationships with?
 

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
What is the state of technology in the outside world? As I roughly recall, they have WW1 tech available and reproducible (with no ability to innovate), while Scandinavia has roughly pre-WW2 tech (which will get stolen, eventually) due to our alliance. We are somewhere in the 70s or 80s. Just trying to figure out how much time we have before it all goes to hell again.

Vinland has something like 1960s nuclear physics, late 40s military technology and in a most anachronistic way, while vacuum tube electronics were not yet completely phased out(but that won't take long), soon the first personal computers will start showing up with initially black and white displays and processors measured in gigahertz. Sort like Fallout 1 minus the power armors and energy weapons.

How much longer for human cloning?

Small-scale? Not much longer. In a scale massive enough to economically allow an unbelievably high population boom? Now that will be trickier and still is far away. Only by the time nanotechnology and AIs are widespread it will become a possibility, and even then, something could go horribly wrong.

Which countries do we have trading relationships with?

The Wyandot and Scandinavia are the only countries regularly trading with Vinland.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
In a scale massive enough to economically allow an unbelievably high population boom? Now that will be trickier and still is far away. Only by the time nanotechnology and AIs are widespread it will become a possibility
Why? What are the biggest constraints? Serious question.

Our productive capabilities far surpass our needs, and our biggest problem is the lack of people to properly utilize them. Cloning can be the one thing that can start a chain reaction of explosive growth in all industries.

And of course there is going to be a caveat, but I don't think it is going to be much worse than being trapped between machine gods, ancient horrors and techno-aliens.

The Wyandot and Scandinavia are the only countries regularly trading with Vinland.
What are we trading with Scandinavians? Natural resourses?

I am considering going into a full-blown isolationist/blockade mode while we sort our own issues and launching our first space shuttle. It looks like we are cutting ties with the Old World anyway. :|
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Would giving up our submarine allow the Arabs master nuclear power?

All it takes to wipe Vinland out off the face of the Earth is ten nukes. But then again, they lack the scientific base to reproduce it, and we could have an orbital defence matrix in place by the time they reverse-engineer it. :|

And I am also not against seeing the Old World burn as 'They' try to murder each other.

Our choices are to either agree to the deal on the spot or refuse. No way I would risk haggling with someone who has mind control.

While the hot melonhead-on-tranny action is tempting, we've seen how this can end with the gods of Xibalba. Actually, at this point I am not sure saving the kids is worth it, as we might be transporting the spies instead of prisoners back with us.

1, 5 and 6 look somewhat appealing.
 
Last edited:

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Any more time spent with the guy and we'll be offering him the sub, ourselves and Vinland for free. :M
 

Grimgravy

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
3,469
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Would accepting his bargain and rigging the sub to explode void the overall deal with Them?
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom