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oljebox

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The systems are scant and underwhelming? Well, maybe that's because you've been playing for 3 days and you haven't seen the fucking systems yet.

Things like combat, leveling up, etc. are clear quickly enough and, ya, they're underwhelming. I wish there was a bit more nuance and a bit more to do, but it's not a biggie. Fallout under Bethesda is a certain kind of game, and Obsidian did what they could with it.

And maybe if you payed some freaking attention you'd know that the NCR is quite big and they set up the correctional facility.

That's my point. It's unbelievable that a Fallout world would have any place for people who cause trouble. As slaves, perhaps, but a community wouldn't waste its time trying to reform them; they've got more than enough else to contend with, without also trying to fix people who are untrustworthy and dangerous.
 

Akratus

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The systems are scant and underwhelming? Well, maybe that's because you've been playing for 3 days and you haven't seen the fucking systems yet.

Things like combat, leveling up, etc. are clear quickly enough and, ya, they're underwhelming. I wish there was a bit more nuance and a bit more to do, but it's not a biggie. Fallout under Bethesda is a certain kind of game, and Obsidian did what they could with it.

And maybe if you payed some freaking attention you'd know that the NCR is quite big and they set up the correctional facility.

That's my point. It's unbelievable that a Fallout world would have any place for people who cause trouble. As slaves, perhaps, but a community wouldn't waste its time trying to reform them; they've got more than enough else to contend with, without also trying to fix people who are untrustworthy and dangerous.

Don't you realize New Vegas is post-post-apocalypse? Besides it's only called a correctional facility because they just took over the pre-war terminology. It was really just a labor camp.
 

oljebox

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Whether it's post-post apocalypse is beside the point. It's only in cozy times that societies allow themselves luxuries like correctional facilities. Hell, look at most third world countries today, which don't have correctional facilities. Even some first world countries:patriot:pay the idea only lip service.

If the correctional facility is in fact a slave compound, then characters unaligned with the NCR wouldn't refer to it as a correctional facility. Something's off with that thread, and it shouldn't be.
 

Akratus

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Whether it's post-post apocalypse is beside the point.
How exactly? Sure, NCR is a crude democratic society and 3rd world comparisons are appropriate yes, but that doesn't mean they can't stuff people in an old prison and force them to work. In fact, that would sound a hell of a lot better to them than getting some actual workers.

It's only in cozy times that societies allow themselves luxuries like correctional facilities.
That's why it's a labor camp.

Hell, look at most third world countries today, which don't have correctional facilities. Even some first world countries pay the idea only lip service.
Most do, though.

If the correctional facility is in fact a slave compound, then characters unaligned with the NCR wouldn't refer to it as a correctional facility.

The call it a correctional facility because they call it a correctional facility. Doesn't change the fact that it functions as a labor camp. A rose by any other name yadayada. .

Something's off with that thread, and it shouldn't be.
Why can't you tell me what that is then?
 

Dustin542

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116
Not really.

You want criminals to do hard labor, ie build your railroad? You need a centralized prison in the region to hold them. After building up all the rails you want in that region you can just stuck them there, or bring them to another prison in another region. The correctional facility could be the new name they call the place, or the old name of that place before the war. Kinda like that Novac name, you know.

My problem with powder gangs is the their placements of their quest-hub. NCRCF is bad enough, but the vault 19 is just too out of the way. My first two runs I just ignore that vault. And the worst factor is the absolute lack of female criminals.
Fixed

Vault 3 is where the Fiends have holed up.
 
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Re the correctional facility:
- I liked it. One of my complaints with Bethesda's handling of FO3 was that they clearly wanted to tell a story set 50-100 years post-bombs, but nonetheless set it 300 years after (wasting the point of having it set on the other side of the continent), resulting in a setting full of incongruencies. NV actually felt like it continued the timeline. It's set during a time when the US is in a 'new west' level of political development - so you'd expect them to have prisons.

Re female members of the powder gang:
- why would female gang members be odd? Modern street gangs are full of rapists and murderders...yet they still have a large female membership. Some women aren't going to give a shit what happens to other women, just like the guys who join aren't giving a shit about how many guys are getting killed (and in both cases they're making a judgment that the power of being IN the crime gang is going to keep them safer and with greater prosperity than fending outside of it).

- BUT my assumption regarding the gang in that area was just that they'd escaped from prison and it isn't at all strange (even in a 'new west' setting) to have separate men's and women's prisons a long distance away from each other.
 

DeepOcean

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I really didn't liked the powder gangers, Great Khans and Fiends. All small factions, with exception of the Brotherhood of Steel, sucked on NV. They are just in there to fill space. I had fun while doing their quests but they were terribly underdeveloped. You meet the powder gangers, join them, do a bunch of irrelevant small quests then end. No quests for raid a few caravans or the local cities? They were pretty much disconnected from the rest of the game. Just targets to shoot. Great Khans, they get money by selling drugs and have alot of skirmishes with the NCR, why there aren't really decent sidequests involving that? The fiends are even worse...
 

Eyeball

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Powder gangers did indeed suck, but a jail makes sense. Remember, you're in what amounts to being a pretty uncivilized region of Post Apocalyptica, sandwhiched between the fairly advanced societies to the West in the NCR and the Savage but organised dictatorship of the Legion to the East. It makes sense that the NCR might ship their hardened criminals off to Bumfuck Nowhere to keep them away from tax-paying cattle barons.
 

Commissar Draco

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All of those minor factions only Fiends look like put there to fill the Human Pop-a-mole quotas for consoltard kids; Khans were text book example of raider gang going tribal and NCCF was a nice way to show how inhrerently hypocrite democracies are, it is as Corectional as Department of Defense is about defence. :incline: In the end the Obsidian writing and word building shines throu making Mojave living breathing word comparing with F3 post apocalyptic theme park full of raiders, Green Orcs and 300 years old edible food.
 

oljebox

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Re the correctional facility:
- I liked it. One of my complaints with Bethesda's handling of FO3 was that they clearly wanted to tell a story set 50-100 years post-bombs, but nonetheless set it 300 years after (wasting the point of having it set on the other side of the continent), resulting in a setting full of incongruencies. NV actually felt like it continued the timeline. It's set during a time when the US is in a 'new west' level of political development - so you'd expect them to have prisons.

Prisons, yes. Correctional facilities, no. And if it's not a correctional facility, someone's got to exist who's going to point that out. Whoever's responsible for the oversight there deserves lashings.

In the end the Obsidian writing and word building shines throu making Mojave living breathing word comparing with F3 post apocalyptic theme park full of raiders, Green Orcs and 300 years old edible food.

They're much more talented/motivated/committed than Bethesda, that's clear. There's still quite a bit that's unsatisfying but, considering the constraints under which they were making the game, they did a great job, for the most part.

I was forced to reload an 8-hour-old save this morning because
I killed the legionaries in Nipton and the Caesar sent death squads after me.:rage: I managed to kill the first squad but I can't move through two fucking cells before running into another one.

:incline:
 
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oljebox

Educated
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I'm going to be keeping a tally of everything that's wrong with the game:
  1. Combat underwhelming*~+
  2. Character building options~+
  3. Inventory management~+
  4. "Correctional facility"
  5. Invisible walls
  6. Freezing on loading screens*
  7. Crashing between cells*
* Gamebryo
+Still better than anything Bethesda's put out
~Inherited from Bethesda, therefore partly their fault


No, it's not the isometric Fallouts, and that's okay.

No, it's not.

Oh, shut it. Games have moved on. There's no point in whining. Games can be good without being isometric or turn-based.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
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Fallout was just isometric/turnbased because of technical limitations back then amirite.

You are part of the problem.
 
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Prostitutes standing around empty streets. All settlements strangely scarce on people.

I can complain that Adytum consists of, like, three streets at all. And Vault 13 has a population of 20. And HOMM 3 shows that city is the size of the hut, and my Archangel army is a single entity, omg implausible

Or the waste of power on cosmetics like neon signs, while in such an environment power should always go first toward constantly improving quality of life, growth, defense, charging weaponry, and there should never be quite enough of it.

And Poland should be building fucking usable roads or improving working conditions instead of buying limousines and iPhones for parliament, and there should never be quite enough of it. More can be said of third world. Doesn't mean it happens.

The luxury concept of "New Vegas" doesn't fit into a post-apocalyptic world, and even into a post-post-apocalyptic one.

The luxury concept is one that could very well fit into an apocalyptic world as well. IRL some people risk their lives every day to the Cyrodiil/Black Marsh world of Amazon jungle, just to scrub some resin off certain tree's bark they may or may not find on a daily hunt, because it's the best chewing gum evah and is in high demand.

I'd say the concept of New Vegas Strip isn't very out of line with what people can do for luxury and pleasure. That doesn't mean every NCR citizen goes YOLO to play blackjack in Ultra-Luxe, it's still a very small niche, but one that humanity always seeks out.

The execution of little elements that consists for it is another thing, of course, but I'd say suspension of disbelief would count nitpicking and theorizing about ultra-realistic economic conditions out. Every fantasy world can fall apart when analyzed due to the very nature of 'fantasy', which is purely a theoretical and individual projection. New Vegas passes a reasonable threshold of competence rather well.
 
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Athelas

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Prostitutes standing around empty streets. All settlements strangely scarce on people.
You really think this a failure of creative vision? It's a well-documented fact that console limitations and the problems of the Gamebryo engine led to lots of cut content, including how many NPC's there could be on a given spot.
 

DalekFlay

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Complaining New Vegas as a city makes no sense in a post-apocalypse world ignores the fact that the setting of New Vegas (the game) is just outside a massive country that is rapidly building infrastructure, modern cities, etc. It's not some barren wasteland with no progress being made. The men and women in New Vegas tend to talk about being on vacation from ranches, cities and bases which are much more modern back West.

Also small communities with more advanced resources rising above the rest of the wasteland would make sense either way. Look at Vault City in Fallout 2, or any larger city within a developing country in today's real world.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
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Prostitutes standing around empty streets. All settlements strangely scarce on people.

I can complain that Adytum consists of, like, three streets at all. And Vault 13 has a population of 20. And HOMM 3 shows that city is the size of the hut, and my Archangel army is a single entity, omg implausible


Abstractions, filling out the blanks works very well in a isometric/birdseye perspective. In a first person perspective game, it just looks retarded.
 

Commissar Draco

Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar
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Prostitutes standing around empty streets. All settlements strangely scarce on people.
You really think this a failure of creative vision? It's a well-documented fact that console limitations and the problems of the Gamebryo engine led to lots of cut content, including how many NPC's there could be on a given spot.

Mods who add too many people crash game-byo games; you want bigger cities you build them like Vivec as series of cells; ISO Fallouts showed only the section of towns relevant to games. NPCs without quests like in Assassin Creed? Who need them in RPG? More bones and Meat and less BS Devs.
 
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Something's off with that thread, and it shouldn't be.
Why can't you tell me what that is then?

I just did. If it's a correctional facility, it's not true to the setting. If it's a labour camp, then other people wouldn't be calling it a correctional facility; there would be at least some characters to call a spade a spade.

Re the correctional facility:
- I liked it. One of my complaints with Bethesda's handling of FO3 was that they clearly wanted to tell a story set 50-100 years post-bombs, but nonetheless set it 300 years after (wasting the point of having it set on the other side of the continent), resulting in a setting full of incongruencies. NV actually felt like it continued the timeline. It's set during a time when the US is in a 'new west' level of political development - so you'd expect them to have prisons.
Prisons, yes. Correctional facilities, no. And if it's not a correctional facility, someone's got to exist who's going to point that out. Whoever's responsible for the oversight there deserves lashings.

If it's obvious it's a labour camp, you don't need a character to state that yes, it's actually a labour camp and the ehuphemism / technical term is not really the right way to call it. Same way you can deduce that if someone is dragged kicking and screaming into a place called Super Fun Happy Chamber, then it's probably not really a chamber full of fun and happiness.
 

oljebox

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If it's obvious it's a labour camp, you don't need a character to state that yes, it's actually a labour camp and the ehuphemism / technical term is not really the right way to call it. Same way you can deduce that if someone is dragged kicking and screaming into a place called Super Fun Happy Chamber, then it's probably not really a chamber full of fun and happiness.

The game goes to great lengths with all other issues (I've come across so far) to point out different perspectives and possibilities. I just finished the mission, Come Fly with Me, in which the developers made sure to have a character, Harlan, contradict the idea of a Far Beyond- and this is just a minor side story that's irrelevant to the rest of the gameworld. The NCRCF is the only topic yet to not get this treatment. If what you say is true, then it's at odds with the way the rest of the game conveys information, which would still make it a poor inclusion, this time in execution instead of inclusion.

Either way you look at it, from an execution or an inclusion perspective, it was poorly handled.
 

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