Game News Return of teh Jedi: JE Sawyer joins Obsidian

[Avin]

BG1 > NWN

JE is going to NWN2? I can't hardly wait for the 3.5 rules discussion thread at NWN2 forums :twisted:

by the way, puuk MUST get back too. you can't have batman without robin.

 

[Gromnir]

if bg1 were not so awful as a rpg, it would be worth replaying... for sake of perspective. am understanding that it is impossible to compare late 90s tech to early 2000s tech, but Gromnir ain't comparing tech. as bad as toee were in developing quests and dialogues, bg were worse by far. also, the character development choices in bg were anemic to be saying the least. it were a fun little squad-based tactical combat game, but it had very little to offer as a rpg... which ain't surprising considering the ie origins.

nwn, on the other hand, failed to live up to lofty expectations, but it had a number o' quests and characters that, divorced from the 1950's b-movie sci-fi plot 'bout evil hibernating reptiles, were actually quite entertaining. furthermore, its bastardized 3e implementation were far superior to bg's bastardized 2e character development options. if nothing else, the fact that nwn had a handful of areas likes charwood were meaning that it had a handful of quality areas... while bg had nothing even remotely comparable.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Spazmo]

as bad as toee were in developing quests and dialogues, bg were worse by far.

What, seriously? I think that's a bit much. The biggest hurdle I have when contemplating a replay of any IE game is, well, the IE, which I goddamn hate. Every time I boot up BG2, I can't get anywhere before the horror of that engine overcomes me.

 

[Gromnir]

as bad as toee were in developing quests and dialogues, bg were worse by far.

What, seriously? I think that's a bit much.

not in the least.

honestly, some of you folks gotta load up bg1 and play it. what were the best single side-quest in bg1, and why? what were the best joinable npc, and why? thinks 'bout such questions for a while and then tell us that we is exaggerating.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Spazmo]

I'm certainly not one to praise BG (oh dear me no), but I'll certainly admit it was more developed in terms of story and NPCs than ToEE. I agree that all the NPCs were kind of annoying, but at least you had, say, one cowardly dude, one druid bitch, and one insane berserker ranger. Not necessarily really interesting or fun personalities, but still. Compare this to ToEE, where the most interesting joinable NPC was a drunk, or maybe a wizard who had the personality quirk of wanting scrolls (whoa!). And while BG's "fetch my boots from my basement. There may be spiders" was bad, it was mildly more interesting than ToEE's "patch up my relationship with my brother by talking to him, then to me, then to some woman, then to ten other people, then come back here".

 

[Gromnir]

"Not necessarily really interesting or fun personalities, but still."

but still what? why were jaheira your "druid bitch?" 'cause of the fact that she were listed as a druid on the character record sheet? how were that different from toee druid npc? what dialogue did jaheira contribute during course of game? she joined party and then randomly spouted some catchphrase at odd times.... that were it. bg were 4 times as large, and did nothing more than toee.

as for quest development, toee had a couple encounters in the temple wherein you could do some things... make some choices if you wished. did bg have any? bg quests were one or two step fed-ex quests or search and destroy missions.

...

honest, load up bg... play it for a few hours.

bg had a coherent core story... which maybe some folks think bg were a better game than toee, and they is probably right, but having a coherent plot is not a defining characteristic of a crpg. most adventure games and rts games got stories too you know.

we will admit that the writers of toee were so incompetent that they ruined what potential they had ... made a bad game even worse... and we concede that 90% of toee quests were just as lame as bg, but as much as we think toee were crap, bg were, in terms of being a crpg, as bad or worse.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[merry andrew]

why were jaheira your "druid bitch?" 'cause of the fact that she were listed as a druid on the character record sheet? how were that different from toee druid npc? what dialogue did jaheira contribute during course of game? she joined party and then randomly spouted some catchphrase at odd times.... that were it. bg were 4 times as large, and did nothing more than toee.

I seem to remember Jaheira being married to Khalid, and them being friends of Gorion, who had agreed to take care of me if anything were to ever happen to him. They both joined up and did their best to protect me... it's funny, because I never even finished BG, and the description I just gave can be seen in the first half-hour of gameplay. But okay.

When you say BG, are you referring to the first, or the entire series?

as for quest development, toee had a couple encounters in the temple wherein you could do some things... make some choices if you wished. did bg have any? bg quests were one or two step fed-ex quests or search and destroy missions.

So you're implying that BG's quests allowed you no choices? Again, I didn't finish BG. I do remember something about two shady characters that you could either kill, let die, or have join you (can't remember their names, I think they ended up dying before I got to Jaheira and Khalid), then there was that Noober guy, and something about a tyrant in a kobold infested cave, and oh that Minsc guy and the witch that he protected, and some guy with sweet sword, I'm pretty sure there were various ways to get it from him... but that's probably just me, or I forgot what really happened and all of that is just my imagination running wild.

Not to mention that the dialog in BG was actually bearable for me, whereas TOEE had me cringing the whole time.

 

[Avin]

gromnir just loves to hate bg1.

 

[Gromnir]

"I seem to remember Jaheira being married to Khalid, and them being friends of Gorion, who had agreed to take care of me if anything were to ever happen to him. They both joined up and did their best to protect me... it's funny, because I never even finished BG, and the description I just gave can be seen in the first half-hour of gameplay. But okay."

and that is all contained in their first dialogue with you... before they join your party.... pretty much like the toee joinable npcs. great friggn' example.

as to your kill'em or let 'em join crap... how is that different than toee?

...

will somebody actually try?

HA! Good Fun!

 

[RGE]

... the fact that nwn had a handful of areas likes charwood were meaning that it had a handful of quality areas... while bg had nothing even remotely comparable.

Castle Jhareg was where I got fed up with the NWN OC, so I can't agree with you about the quality of the Charwood areas. I recently got back in the saddle though. Decided to bite the bullet and play through the campaigns I paid for. See how far I get this time...

In BG I made it to the city before it overwhelmed me and I lost interest. I think I simply forgot where to go and what to do, so I went nowhere and did nothing. The story of my life.

 

[merry andrew]

and that is all contained in their first dialogue with you... before they join your party.... pretty much like the toee joinable npcs. great friggn' example.

Yeah, the mage that wants to go to the moathouse, the monk and his mute friend that want to check out the moathouse, the soldier that has heard of the moathouse... pretty much the same as the BG NPCs

as to your kill'em or let 'em join crap... how is that different than toee?

It was in response to your "make some choices if you wished. did bg have any?" argument.

Not so much an argument, though. I'll stop now, seeing as I don't see much sense in anything that you're saying, other than that you dislike BG, which is understandable.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, Gromnir's right pretty much about everything in this thread, so, for fuck's sake, people, think before you post stuff or at least try to answer his questions and that would lead to the right answers.

It was in response to your "make some choices if you wished. did bg have any?" argument.

That (your example with kill, let die, join) is not the kind of choice he's talking about. Every game has those. In Diablo 2 you can choose to imbue now or wait a few acts, in ToEE you can hire that drunk or not, you can choose a few meaningless things in the starting town, but those are cosmetic choices that have no affect on the gameplay. Only when you get to the temple, you really get to choose something a few times, and BG didn't have anything like that.

 

[Avin]

i couldn't even finish neverwinter nights OC, gromnir. it's awful.

i finished bg 3 times.

if replayability is the key NWN sucks.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

STFU vault dweller. Even if we all hate Bioware you still have to admit that BG had better NPCs and quests compared to TOEE. If you can't give in to that then you are a mindless fanboi who masturbates to RPGcreator2000.


edit: faggot

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hey, Pooper, old pal. How nice of you to share your bits of wisdom with us.

STFU vault dweller

A very strong and promising openning

Even if we all hate Bioware...

Speak for yourself.

you still have to admit that BG had better NPCs and quests compared to TOEE

Prove it, don't just tell me what I have to do.

you are a mindless fanboi who masturbates to RPGcreator2000

What's RPGcreator got to do with Bio or BG? I've never seen it in my life.

edit: faggot

Moron. Are we done exchanging pleasantries?

 

[Feargus Urquhart]

The pearls of wisdom dropped in these threads always amazes me.

 

[Deacdo]

The pearls of wisdom dropped in these threads always amazes me.

Always great to see you around, Feargus

 

[Gromnir]

The pearls of wisdom dropped in these threads always amazes me.

we find the pms to be even more insightful...

'course fergie posting in a josh thread does offer us an opportunity to share an observation.

am thinking that fergie tries to be honest with board folks, but he will spin things, and he ain't shy 'bout spinning BIG. heck, he will outright lie if the situation demands it, and before you get offended, please recall how you responded to josh's wotc criticisms on the bis boards during iwd2 development. given the circumstances we completely understand why fergie felt the need to practice his creative writing skills, but... *shrug* regardless, you can never be positive ‘bout whether or not fergie is being completely honest. sorry.

compare josh posts to fergie posts. josh speaks his mind... sometimes to his detriment. we s'pose it gots something to do with his notion o' being right. if he is right (which he believes himself to be almost invariably,) then he need not obfuscate or apologize. maybe josh is being a bit naïve, but his honesty is refreshing and unquestioned.

...

does our observation qualify as a pearl worthy o' amazement? probably not.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Surlent]

he ain't shy 'bout spinning BIG. heck, he will outright lie if the situation demands it, and before you get offended, please recall how you responded to josh's wotc criticisms on the bis boards during iwd2 development.

Can we just let past rest and look to the future for new rpgs ?
Speaking of new rpgs, pst Feargus, how about sum nwn2 screens puhleeezz ?

 

[Avin]

The pearls of wisdom dropped in these threads always amazes me.

that's why you are here and that's why people love the codex, where teh truth is awful.

 

[Gromnir]

"Can we just let past rest and look to the future for new rpgs ? "

'course not. don't be foolish. is no way to discuss future crpgs in a vacuum. you and, spaz and st.p, and Gromnir and others will always reference past games and past developments when discussing current and future games.

after all, why is you pleased to see josh return if not 'cause of his past actions?

another observation: josh were a history major at university.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[merry andrew]

That (your example with kill, let die, join) is not the kind of choice he's talking about. Every game has those... Only when you get to the temple, you really get to choose something a few times, and BG didn't have anything like that.

Can you PM me what these great choices were? I never finished TOEE.

 

[Atrokkus]

Fergie, how is NWN2 development going???

PLZ share your pearls of insight with us!!!!!!

 

[bryce777]

I don't get why people are excited about this.

The only thing he has actually delivered on was IWD and some of IWDII. So what?

As for the rest, I can remember him talking about how nifty realtime play in f03 would be...it hardly seems like anything for codexites to be excited over.

 

[Atrokkus]

And he's probably a fan of Jade Empire - his name suggests that!