Riddles in RPGs

[Black]

So, in a lot of RPGs, when NPCs ask our character a riddle most often it's the player who has to choose the answer. You can see it in badly designed rpgs like BGs, other while still requiring player's input at least give you a suggested correct answer (Torment... sometimes). Of course I think this is banal shit boring because our characters have stats like intelligence, wisdom, cleverness and other dump stats/skills. Shouldn't a character with max int automatically solve riddles on his own, without our input? I'm a dumb, simple man, this is why I make smart guys in RPGs I play- because I want them to handle anything that requires thinking. It's silly that my nerd with 3 brains doesn't know the answer to what is 2 + 2 because I don't know it.
Just like with the new shit, as in action-"rpgs", where your reflexes and twitch skill shouldn't be rewarded, my own lack of brain cells shouldn't be punished in normal, not dumbed down RPGs.
So of course player answering riddles instead of his character is dumb and that's obvious, but what becomes of the riddles then?

 

[soggie]

I played Morrowind and my IQ dropped 10 points. I was going to sue Bethesda, but then I saw a mudcrab and forgot. Filthy things.

Stop playing Morrowind.

On a more serious note, I do like riddles every now and then. Like flipping levels in the correct order, or solving a cryptic clue.

 

[JarlFrank]

It's always a question of player control vs character abilities. In the end you could make it so that your character fights combat automatically without player input because he's too smart to make tactical faults or too stupid to use flanking tactics. Or your character decides on his own what to say to NPCs and what quests to accept or decline because he's too good a talker to ask an awkward question or can see well enough through people to not be double-crossed.

I like riddles. Having an intelligent char come up with it on his own would make sense, but it should be like Torment, where you can only get the right answer with enough WIS but have to pick the correct dialogue option yourself.

 

[Baron]

You adjust the number of dialogue branches the player can choose in response.

INT High = 3 responses (with one being wildly inaccurate)
INT Med = 5
INT Low = 12 (punish those Barbarian pinheads)


Intelligence would be used for analytical skills. Wisdom could be used for riddles.

But fuck I hate riddles. I'd kick Gollum in his shrivelled grey scrotum and take the goddamned ring.

CHA High = 1. Kick Gollum in the nuts.


Edit - Actually, some players who choose a High Intelligence PC are clearly desiring a more problem based gameplay, and therefore would appreciate harder puzzles (therefore fewer responses could be an unwelcomed assist.) Might occasionally use Jarl's suggestion for a mod I'm writing and block out the Low INT pinheads, let them use their foreheads only for melee attacks. Although I still agree with Black that the intelligent PCs should get an advantage in order that you believe that your wizard is a genius.

 

[Black]

INT High = 3 responses (with one being wildly inaccurate)
INT Med = 5
INT Low = 12 (punish those Barbarian pinheads)

I guess that makes sense.
Actually, I'd prefer if very low INT would make it impossible to solve riddles.

 

[jazzotron]

I like riddles. Having an intelligent char come up with it on his own would make sense, but it should be like Torment, where you can only get the right answer with enough WIS but have to pick the correct dialogue option yourself.

 

[BearBomber]

Make player chose the right answer, but give intelligent characters option to get benefits by outsmarting the guy who tells the riddle. Like in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, when King Arthur ticked the Bridgekeeper by asking unexpected question.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Oh yeah? Fuck your 'options'. When you're presented a riddle, a window should pop up with "TYPE ANSWER HERE" like in good ol' Might and Magic.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

So, in a lot of RPGs, when NPCs ask our character a riddle most often it's the player who has to choose the answer. You can see it in badly designed rpgs like BGs, other while still requiring player's input at least give you a suggested correct answer (Torment... sometimes). Of course I think this is banal shit boring because our characters have stats like intelligence, wisdom, cleverness and other dump stats/skills. Shouldn't a character with max int automatically solve riddles on his own, without our input? I'm a dumb, simple man, this is why I make smart guys in RPGs I play- because I want them to handle anything that requires thinking. It's silly that my nerd with 3 brains doesn't know the answer to what is 2 + 2 because I don't know it.
Just like with the new shit, as in action-"rpgs", where your reflexes and twitch skill shouldn't be rewarded, my own lack of brain cells shouldn't be punished in normal, not dumbed down RPGs.
So of course player answering riddles instead of his character is dumb and that's obvious, but what becomes of the riddles then?

 

[Jaesun]

I like riddles. Having an intelligent char come up with it on his own would make sense, but it should be like Torment, where you can only get the right answer with enough WIS but have to pick the correct dialogue option yourself.

 

[Malakal]

I like riddles. Having an intelligent char come up with it on his own would make sense, but it should be like Torment, where you can only get the right answer with enough WIS but have to pick the correct dialogue option yourself.

This, after all it is I that control the actions of my character, so his stats decide if he is able to find the answer while I decide if this answer is good.

Besides this way is also good for gameplay reasons. Games doesnt always have to make sense...

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Oh yeah? Fuck your 'options'. When you're presented a riddle, a window should pop up with "TYPE ANSWER HERE" like in good ol' Might and Magic.

Yes. Maybe make low INT characters unable to answer at all, and high INT ones steer you in the right direction, but completely reducing player participation to "pick the good option (IF YOU CAN SEE IT LOL)" is as gay as auto-resolving combat. And typing it in works far better than picking options.

 

[Jaesun]

Oh yeah? Fuck your 'options'. When you're presented a riddle, a window should pop up with "TYPE ANSWER HERE" like in good ol' Might and Magic.

Where this fails is that if you re-play the game you already know the answer.

BUT if you replay the game again with the PS:T style of stat based, it works much better, and fits well with your character.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Randomize the riddles, then.

 

[Jaesun]

Randomize the riddles, then.

That could work. I still prefer the character approach than the player approach though. To each his own I guess.

 

[Malakal]

Randomize the riddles, then.

That could work. I still prefer the character approach than the player approach though. To each his own I guess.

But the problem is the same could be said about almost ANTTHING ingame. Combat? Why fight, lets just check the stats and see who would win! Dialogues? Check the stats and alingment (if present).
Then the game plays itself and player is very much useless...

 

[Unradscorpion]

If you don't want the player to type in the answer, why would you even bother with a riddle?

 

[soggie]

If you don't want the player to type in the answer, why would you even bother with a riddle?

Why bother having riddles in the first place?

I would rather have puzzles than riddles, frankly speaking. I have never enjoyed riddles in games - they are either too simple or too difficult, and almost always break the pace of narrative for no good reasons at all.

 

[Unradscorpion]

I would put them in as an optional way to solve a quest, you either know the answer or you don't, having them unavoidable is a lousy idea.

But I think they're okay if they aren't forced on you, but I guess they seem redundant if you don't like them

 

[visions]

As others have already suggested, I think a middle ground between player and character abilities would be best for riddles.

I do like the idea of the player having to type in the answer too, in this case higher intelligence or wisdom could give the player a hint, but the hint should still be rather subtle, otherwise having a riddle in the first place would be kind of pointless and the riddle could be replaced with a simple int/wis check.

 

[soggie]

As others have already suggested, I think a middle ground between player and character abilities would be best for riddles.

I do like the idea of the player having to type in the answer too, in this case higher intelligence or wisdom could give the player a hint, but the hint should still be rather subtle, otherwise having a riddle in the first place would be kind of pointless and the riddle could be replaced with a simple int/wis check.

How about hangman style?

Low Int: Y_ _ _ _ C _

High Int: YO_ S _ C K

 

[Satori (original)]

I like riddles. Having an intelligent char come up with it on his own would make sense, but it should be like Torment, where you can only get the right answer with enough WIS but have to pick the correct dialogue option yourself.

Agreed on how to make RPGS more like PnP however having to solve the puzzles yourself which I find to be more gratifying than having my character portrayed as accurately as I built him; take for example Betrayal at Krondor, some of those chests were goddamn esoteric but bloody hell if you managed to figure it out, truly a great feeling.

 

[ecliptic]

Fuuuuuck riddles. It's OKAY if they're for optional stuff, or contextually relevant, but they're usually completely from left-field.

 

[Darth Roxor]

this thread proves that thinking is teh hard

 

[visions]

How about hangman style?

Low Int: Y_ _ _ _ C _

High Int: YO_ S _ C K

That would be too easy, I think higher intelligence should maybe give somekind of a subtle hint, but not make the riddle pointless.