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Riven ( Myst 2 )

Raapys

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Jun 7, 2007
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I recently decided to go through the Myst series, having fond memories of running around in the mysterious world of Myst 1 from when I was alot younger.

So while I played Myst 1 again and quickly solved puzzles that eluded me a decade ago, I must confess that Riven really is something. In fact, it is quite probably one of the hardest game I've ever tried. I'm pretty sure I could have been sitting for days without getting anywhere at some stages of the game; it seems next to impossible on the first play-through without some sort of strategy guide or a walthrough, which unfortunately also ruins the game.

Eventually I jumped over to Myst 3, and to my surprise the puzzles there were almost back to Myst 1 level of difficulty. Or perhaps a more accurate description would be that in Myst 3 the puzzles are sort of 'in your face' as soon as you enter a new world, while in Riven you have to go look for the puzzles, and you can't even be sure you've found a main-quest related puzzle when you do find one. In fact, the biggest problem in the first play-through of Riven might very well be simply navigating and finding your way through the countless semi-hidden passages.

Anyone else thought this game was rather hard? Difficult to imagine that over 2 million people actually bought this game. I've a feeling very few of them actually completed it.
 

Raapys

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The puzzles are alright; easy but satisfying. However, for me the game lost very much of its charm moving from the beautiful 2D stills and great sound effects of Riven to the full 3D thing in M3( which doesn't look half as nice, and in some parts actually look very bad ) . Exploration is almost entirely gone; enter one small world, do the puzzles, move on to the next small world. I've not finished it yet, lost an hour worth of puzzles when the game unexpectedly crashed, and I don't really think I'll bother either.

I gave Myst 4 a 5 minute spin as well, but alas that one disappointed me immediately. Something about the 3D engine; it's so slow, sluggish, whatever, and they've also gone away from the 'no interaction with human beings' thing, which was part of its charm.

I read somewhere Myst 5 was supposed to be a step up, but haven't had the time to try it out yet. So far I'd have to say Riven > Myst 1 > Myst 3 > Myst 4.
 
Joined
Nov 22, 2007
Messages
1
Raapys said:
I recently decided to go through the Myst series, having fond memories of running around in the mysterious world of Myst 1 from when I was alot younger.

So while I played Myst 1 again and quickly solved puzzles that eluded me a decade ago, I must confess that Riven really is something. In fact, it is quite probably one of the hardest game I've ever tried. I'm pretty sure I could have been sitting for days without getting anywhere at some stages of the game; it seems next to impossible on the first play-through without some sort of strategy guide or a walthrough, which unfortunately also ruins the game.

Eventually I jumped over to Myst 3, and to my surprise the puzzles there were almost back to Myst 1 level of difficulty. Or perhaps a more accurate description would be that in Myst 3 the puzzles are sort of 'in your face' as soon as you enter a new world, while in Riven you have to go look for the puzzles, and you can't even be sure you've found a main-quest related puzzle when you do find one. In fact, the biggest problem in the first play-through of Riven might very well be simply navigating and finding your way through the countless semi-hidden passages.

Anyone else thought this game was rather hard? Difficult to imagine that over 2 million people actually bought this game. I've a feeling very few of them actually completed it.

I bought Riven for my mum when i was a kid - I hadn't played Myst but I knew the series was for the casual crowd.
She finished it. With a strategy guide -- which i read, w/o touching the game myself. I was just looking at the guide the other day while clearing out her house. Its amazing how inscrutable Riven is. A lot of the puzzles require quite creative leaps of logic on the part of the player. Its not just about manipulating buttons and turning things like in Myst 3, (which i did play) but more about sharply observing your environment and recognizing the significance of innocuous things...like the parts where essential clues are held in the shape of the landscape itself. Its kind of brilliant....but i wouldn't want to play it. The designers made this very intricate adventure in a game with almost no play mechanics. I can't think of anything quite like it in my own game-experiences.

And i thought Myst 3 was still very pretty. It's still technically in 2-D Raapys - its just that the player can mouse-look freely at each 'node' as the 2-D scene wraps around the player in a spherical panorama, which is very cool. The art-direction in 3 can be really stunning. Some worlds, like the last, are duds though. And you're right - the worlds *are too small and self-contained. The player doesn't have to hold the entire game in his head since when a world is completed, you never have to go back or think about it again. That must kill the sense of unity Riven seems to have had.
 

Elwro

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Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
I played Riven up to the "put colourful balls in proper slots" riddle. It's completely unsolvable for me - a daltonist - even with a strategy guide with screens in colour :-(
 

Red Russian

Scholar
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
164
I gave Myst 4 a 5 minute spin as well, but alas that one disappointed me immediately. Something about the 3D engine; it's so slow, sluggish, whatever

read somewhere Myst 5 was supposed to be a step up, but haven't had the time to try it out yet.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your'e saying that you have a problem with Myst 4's 3D engine? Last time I played it, it was pre-rendered 3D graphics like in Myst 2. They did add cool new things like blur that added alot to the world around you. Not to mention the ability to view 360 degrees all round. I never played Myst 3 so I don't know how it looked or played compared to 4.

As for Myst 5, it's in a shop nearby where I live and in glorious 3D. As in First Person Perspective. Fucking up the game's unique experience.

4 and 2 are the only ones I've played. In Riven I got fucking lost time and again. Myst 4 (who's subtitle I forgot) was just one big fucking boredom after the first area. That stupid area with the floating rocks just plainly sucks.

Also, www.mystonline.com

but I'm not sure what that is. It's got online in it. Which sucks.

[/quote]
 

Raapys

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,960
Hmm, I was pretty sure it was actually a 3D engine they used for both Myst 3 and 4( I believe that's why it's possible to look around you 360 degrees ), even though the graphics are still pre-rendered like in Riven. In Riven it's full 2D; you simply move from one picture to the next.

Think I'll check out that online game later.
 

hicksman

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
164
My dad and I have been playing Riven since we bought it the Christmas after it came out. We got the strategy guide, but have yet to crack it open. Once a year I'll be visiting and we'll pop it in and give it a whirl. I think we've made some progress, because I decided about a year ago that we'd start writing things down and that helped a lot. Its now much easier to keep track of things you've seen or puzzles that you haven't figured out yet.

At this point, we're kind of running out of things to do. But i'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. It definitely is obscure and quite tough to crack though, I will give you that.
 

Jormungandr

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
127
I hated Riven, it's just gigantic and it's rather impossible to figure any of that crap out (as far as "oh, THIS will help me out with THAT puzzle, which is across the entire gameworld and has nothing else in common). I learned how to count, that was it.

The only other one I've played (other than the original) is Myst 5, which is fully 3D, and can even be played in free-movement/free-look ala any other first person game. You can still play it in point&click around, but it's rather annoying, and since it gives you the freedom of movement, you may as well take advantage of it. I don't see it as heresy and abomination.

Since it's been a good decade or so since I last played the other games in the series, I can't really account for the difficulty. My wife and I played through it together, and we figured every puzzle out on our own without any serious difficulty. It was still a satisfying experience.

[edit] I if I remember it correctly, Myst 3 and/or 4 use a sort of mock-3d environment. Yes, you get full 360 degree lookaround, but it's not a 3D world. it's just a panoramic picture. Basically, you're stuck inside a sphere that has had the picture pasted on its interior such that it looks 3D.
 

denizsi

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bosphorus
There is a non-OOP bundle for first three games together, all with manualsand even with a soundtrack plus a "making of Myst 3" disc, as well as a more recent bundle with all the games except for the online game. They were at quite affordable prices for that many games. Just pointing out for anyone interested in the series.
 

KazikluBey

Cipher
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Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
784
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Retrospective? That was mostly just a walkthrough of two of the major puzzles of the game, plus some forced humor.

I played Riven when I was maybe 11, and really liked it, although I needed quite a bit of help from my father as I recall. I also delved into the lore, the three books, and I was pretty good at the D'ni conlang that is on display in a lot of places in Riven. I never liked the other Myst games as much as Riven, partly because of the unity that JeffersonJones mentioned. The other games compartmentalized their puzzles into smaller areas ("ages") that were more obviously just puzzles for puzzle's sake, rather than having a good in-world reason to exist.
 

El Presidente

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Nov 3, 2018
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Oval Office
I'm replaying Riven for the first time in 20 years and I have to say this is an extremely strong contender for the most intelligent game ever made. It's astonishing how well put together everything is and how natural it all feels, the soundtrack is spectacular (I believe IIRC it's the second and last time the other Miller brother contributed with the music), at certain points it almost feels like you're playing a game made by a civilization hundreds of years apart from us, as if that was even possible, because it's designed so wildly different from modern titles it almost feels as if the game itself is an otherworldly product made by the D'ni.
 

Darkozric

Arbiter
Edgy
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Jun 3, 2018
Messages
1,651
I'm replaying Riven for the first time in 20 years and I have to say this is an extremely strong contender for the most intelligent game ever made.
I replayed it about 10 years ago, the game is timeless. My next playthrough will be in its 3D glory.

If you're not aware, they've shown a glimpse of the remake at the 2023 Mysterium, I just hope the game will be well optimized.
 

El Presidente

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To make a follow up to my previous post, I finished Riven, managed to do it without a walkthrough or any assistance of any kind. While I'd say I'm somewhat proud of this, I also think most people (at least most of the people that have a natural interest for this kind of game) can do it with little to no issues if they're methodical enough. This is a game that requires a specific method and approach, and if you do it, you'll most likely succeed, and if you don't, you'll fail for sure. It's almost mandatory to have a notebook with you - I mean, sure you can probably do it too by taking a bunch of screenshots but where's the fun in that, it's super fun to make notes and drawings of your own, with pencil and paper. It really adds to the experience and it can even turn into a nice little memento of sorts for you to keep, cause the end result is a couple pages filled with the scribbles of a mad man, it's pretty funny.

As for the game itself, it really is in a league of its own, and as such it's even hard to describe how truly extraordinary it is without resorting to lots of superlatives. There's an entire mythology they've greatly expanded the scope, and unlike M1's Sirrus and Achenar, which are pretty silly caricatures (albeit pretty entertaining ones), Gehn is an incredibly complex character with a ton of depth. The acting is phenomenal (RIP John Keston, passed away last year at the age of 97 :salute:), and the game provides you with lots of small insights into his mind, either through his lab in what I referred to as "Island 3" in my notes, and obviously through his diary later on, but also throughout all islands as well, as his presence is ubiquitous. I guess you can say many things about this game and frame it through many different angles, but one you probably won't see often and I think should be more talked about is how Riven is an immense character study on Gehn, and it does it so masterfully it's just incredible.

There's just too much to talk about, too much that can be noticed, too much to unpack. I'll take away with me so much from this game it's ridiculous really. This is the first time in more than 20 years that I want to replace my decades-long personal Top 1, Thief (and by that I mean Thief 1 and 2 grouped, to be fair), with another game, but I'll wait a couple years and let it grow more on me to make this decision. JarlFrank you handsome Thieffag you always had very similar tastes to me (fuck it we're both even footfags) give this game some love if you didn't yet.


The game's insanely detailed to the point of obsession and I love it all, I imagine there's a lot I didn't notice too. I don't think developers these days would be able to come up with even Gehn's crest alone:

8wew1A3.jpg


Let alone the rest of this game. The craftsmanship here is an achievement that will *never* be reached again in a video game, I'm pretty sure.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
@JarlFrank you handsome Thieffag you always had very similar tastes to me (fuck it we're both even footfags) give this game some love if you didn't yet.
I never really tried the Myst games beyond not really getting them when I tried some B-tier clones as a kid (found the pre-rendered 3D ugly compared to hand-drawn 256 color pixel art), but if you're praising it this much I should give it an honest try.

It's a genre I mostly dismissed as being not for me due to it not clicking with me 30 years ago, so yeah... I guess a proper playthrough is in order. :salute:
 
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@JarlFrank you handsome Thieffag you always had very similar tastes to me (fuck it we're both even footfags) give this game some love if you didn't yet.
I never really tried the Myst games beyond not really getting them when I tried some B-tier clones as a kid (found the pre-rendered 3D ugly compared to hand-drawn 256 color pixel art), but if you're praising it this much I should give it an honest try.

It's a genre I mostly dismissed as being not for me due to it not clicking with me 30 years ago, so yeah... I guess a proper playthrough is in order. :salute:
I played the original Myst on release and felt the same way, but I was 13 years old at the time. It took me decades to finish it. I think these sort of games get much better as you get older. I now like them probably more than traditional point n click adventures.
 

El Presidente

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@JarlFrank you handsome Thieffag you always had very similar tastes to me (fuck it we're both even footfags) give this game some love if you didn't yet.
I never really tried the Myst games beyond not really getting them when I tried some B-tier clones as a kid (found the pre-rendered 3D ugly compared to hand-drawn 256 color pixel art), but if you're praising it this much I should give it an honest try.

It's a genre I mostly dismissed as being not for me due to it not clicking with me 30 years ago, so yeah... I guess a proper playthrough is in order. :salute:
I played the original Myst on release and felt the same way, but I was 13 years old at the time. It took me decades to finish it. I think these sort of games get much better as you get older. I now like them probably more than traditional point n click adventures.
Definitely. As I approach my 40's I'm enjoying more and more playing/replaying these kinds of games. Loving all kinds of whodunnit mystery point and click adventures as well these days, they're a lot of fun when they're well written. I think the pnc genre as a whole (Myst and similars included) have historically had the oldest playerbase and I'm starting to get why.
 

Lagole Gon

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Pathfinder: Wrath
Riven was the first legal copy of a game I bought. I spent probably most of my pocket money.
I still have the big box, although very damaged.

Never completed it, lol.
 

toughasnails

Guest
I played the original Myst on release and felt the same way, but I was 13 years old at the time. It took me decades to finish it. I think these sort of games get much better as you get older. I now like them probably more than traditional point n click adventures.
Myst really isn't a hard game as such. Why so many folks bounced off it, and it why it got its reputation as difficult, is the opening. You are literally thrown into this world that look like the insides of some surrealist painting without obvious why to any of it, with no explicit guidance at first, and with like a million things you can interact with. So if you don't pay attention - and many players really miss the initial note and hologram message - you'll end up wandering around and clicking at stuff, thinking you're either too dumb to even recognize any hint as to what you're supposed to do or that you're actually supposed to crack it all via trial and error. In either case people bounce off. But if you don't miss the initial steps. the game is p easy and all puzzles are self-contained.
Riven though is difficult by any standard.

El Presidente
I do think that being younger, in spirit at least, actually helps. Just for the joy of exploring a strange new place and discovering what everything does. Also what helped with Riven back in the day, and is lost today and requires some effort to be somewhat regained, is that you had less distraction and it was easier for you to be properly immersed into it. So even a kid who was perhaps way over his head could commit himself to the game and keep coming back to it, maybe not having access to internet and so no way to access any external guidance. Today you have to force yourself into that state and hope that it'll all click.
 

Glop_dweller

Prophet
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
1,163
and it why it got its reputation as difficult
Also...in a few cases it generates unique puzzle solutions (passwords, symbol ordering, and such) per game session; no sharing a walkthrough solution list for the answers. :hero:
So you have to find out what the answer will be this time, by following the steps to solve it.
 

Glop_dweller

Prophet
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Sep 29, 2007
Messages
1,163
The GoG version is better IMO.

*I have the original retail discs.
 

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