Editorial RPG Codex Report: A Codexian Visit to inXile Entertainment

[Iznaliu]

Sawyer was right.

Sawyer is always right.

 

[TT1]

Nice interview, Codex. Congrats!

I think Codex should take the opportunity and really reconcile with Inxile. In the end, Brian apologized and is doing his part. It does not make sense for Codex, as a portal of content and news, to be away from one of the companies that produces the games that are the theme of the site. Seize the opportunity and move on.

 

[Crolug]

Nice interview, Codex. Congrats!

I think Codex should take the opportunity and really reconcile with Inxile. In the end, Brian apologized and is doing his part. It does not make sense for Codex, as a portal of content and news, to be away from one of the companies that produces the games that are the theme of the site. Seize the opportunity and move on.

Bethesda and BioWare claim they're also doing cRPGs - should we reconcile with them as well?

 

[laclongquan]

I will note that "commercial failure" is not a bad point in Codex's book, particularly mine. We like flawed gems, and a feature of flawed gem generally is a low sale number. bad for devs, sure, but there you have it.

We're also trying to get more efficient by using outside contractors. Like for the combat system in Bard's Tale IV we're using a small team out of North Carolina. They're not employees; it's about four people.

Not sure if outsourcing your combat system to contractors is a good idea, but I guess we'll find out.

Could work if instead of North Carolina they outsourced it to a group in Serbia known for making a good tactical rpg. As it is, we are probably going to get a bad(worse) version of Heartstone.

Nah, Eastern Europe, either Poland or Russia is where it's at. I would have said jap devs will save the day but those otaku fuckers are expensive.

And he blame Codex's opinion of wallotext. Problem is, Codex is not a hivemind, and storyfags is just one very vocal but minor faction.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Am I the only one who thinks it is mainly because of the Numenera setting that it failed? Wasn't it a flop? I remember people I knew being very excited to try out the pen and paper game, and ending up finding it too absurd, pretentious and simplistic and giving up on it.

Nobody except those who made it like Numenera.

Are there seriously still people making regular campaigns of Numenera continuously, that have lasted for years, like is the case for countless other settings like D&D, Cthulhu or GURPS? I know guys who basically played the same Cthulhu or GURPS campaign for ten years.

The second reason why it failed IMO echoes the comment someone made in another thread about the gaming industry: game developers nowadays are game nerds who have few life experiences and have no frame of reference or ability to create good culture.

Millennials have lived very sheltered, controlled lives in safe environments, and due to growing up on the Internet, they haven't gone outside that much and had the experiences required to draw from and create good content. They also read useless web pages, Facebook posts, Twitter videos... whereas for those of us who knew life pre-Internet, we had to read classic novels and comics or films.

 

[Crolug]

Eastern Europe, either Poland or Russia

Poland is in Central Europe

 

[Shilandra]

Am I the only one who thinks it is mainly because of the Numenera setting that it failed? Wasn't it a flop? I remember people I knew being very excited to try out the pen and paper game, and ending up finding it too absurd, pretentious and simplistic and giving up on it.

Nobody except those who made it like Numenera.

Are there seriously still people making regular campaigns of Numenera continuously, that have lasted for years, like is the case for countless other settings like D&D, Cthulhu or GURPS? I know guys who basically played the same Cthulhu or GURPS campaign for ten years.

The second reason why it failed IMO echoes the comment someone made in another thread about the gaming industry: game developers nowadays are game nerds who have few life experiences and have no frame of reference or ability to create good culture.

Millennials have lived very sheltered, controlled lives in safe environments, and due to growing up on the Internet, they haven't gone outside that much and had the experiences required to draw from and create good content. They also read useless web pages, Facebook posts, Twitter videos... whereas for those of us who knew life pre-Internet, we had to read classic novels and comics or films.

I dont think the numenera setting let the game down that much, in fact it kinda saved it at least for me.

The concept of worlds built on top of worlds is interesting and I like how relatively varied the set pieces were, places like the reef and bloom especially. Tides especially were captivating for me I just wish they were actively used more. Worldbuilding through oddities and numenera is a neat take as well and worked in the game as well as it could have.

Effort and edge replacing proper stats were definitely a downer but they get the job done I suppose. Thats one big weakness of the setting I can see.

 

[laclongquan]

Eastern Europe, either Poland or Russia

Poland is in Central Europe

Poland is always an Eastern Europe, former-commie nation to me. Dont even try to avoid your past!

Aaaaaaanyway~

Regarding the Codex-Inxile relation, I still have hope. For one thing, Codex is no hivemind, so even if someone get their panties in a twist, there's still other. For another, we love flawed gem and Numenera got "flawed" inscribed onto its face. So after several round of fixes and expansions and mods, I am pretty damn sure it would become another flawed gem we over.

My impression from this very well done interview is that there's hope still for Numenera. Several things can be fixed, or expanded, or modded. Once that work are done, it will be glorious.

Regarding setting: I am not too particular about Numenera setting. I like DnD and Planescape setting BECAUSE OF Torment, not vice versa.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Am I the only one who thinks it is mainly because of the Numenera setting that it failed? Wasn't it a flop? I remember people I knew being very excited to try out the pen and paper game, and ending up finding it too absurd, pretentious and simplistic and giving up on it.

Nobody except those who made it like Numenera.

Are there seriously still people making regular campaigns of Numenera continuously, that have lasted for years, like is the case for countless other settings like D&D, Cthulhu or GURPS? I know guys who basically played the same Cthulhu or GURPS campaign for ten years.

The second reason why it failed IMO echoes the comment someone made in another thread about the gaming industry: game developers nowadays are game nerds who have few life experiences and have no frame of reference or ability to create good culture.

Millennials have lived very sheltered, controlled lives in safe environments, and due to growing up on the Internet, they haven't gone outside that much and had the experiences required to draw from and create good content. They also read useless web pages, Facebook posts, Twitter videos... whereas for those of us who knew life pre-Internet, we had to read classic novels and comics or films.

I dont think the numenera setting let the game down that much, in fact it kinda saved it at least for me.

The concept of worlds built on top of worlds is interesting and I like how relatively varied the set pieces were, places like the reef and bloom especially. Tides especially were captivating for me I just wish they were actively used more. Worldbuilding through oddities and numenera is a neat take as well and worked in the game as well as it could have.

Effort and edge replacing proper stats were definitely a downer but they get the job done I suppose. Thats one big weakness of the setting I can see.

Maybe it is original to have worlds within a world... but it's difficult to know exactly what Numenera is about for the average Joe. It's too weird and incoherent a mishmash.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Poland is always an Eastern Europe, former-commie nation to me. Dont even try to avoid your past!

Aaaaaaanyway~

Regarding the Codex-Inxile relation, I still have hope. For one thing, Codex is no hivemind, so even if someone get their panties in a twist, there's still other. For another, we love flawed gem and Numenera got "flawed" inscribed onto its face. So after several round of fixes and expansions and mods, I am pretty damn sure it would become another flawed gem we over.

My impression from this very well done interview is that there's hope still for Numenera. Several things can be fixed, or expanded, or modded. Once that work are done, it will be glorious.

Regarding setting: I am not too particular about Numenera setting. I like DnD and Planescape setting BECAUSE OF Torment, not vice versa.

There're flawed gems and flawed games. Numanuma ain't the former.

 

[MrBuzzKill]

Am I the only one who thinks it is mainly because of the Numenera setting that it failed? Wasn't it a flop

It doesn't seem to have, recently there was even a Numenera-themed Thunderstone (boardgame) expansion

We could've easily turned Aligern into a sysygy ghoul, or made Matkina a silver orphan.

WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU?! I hate the fact that all companions are boring humans. I'd MUCH rather have a silver orphan or a rogue Stychus or at least a Varjellen or a Lascar accompany me. Why does Colin imply that any story could be told with a human character? Fuck that, the whole reason P:T companions are so awesome is because they have their uniquely weird perspective on everything you encounter, due to being of a whole different people and often atypical even for their own race (FFG, Nordom)

 

[MRY]

I always thought a Decanted could be pretty fun for a companion.

 

[Shilandra]

Am I the only one who thinks it is mainly because of the Numenera setting that it failed? Wasn't it a flop? I remember people I knew being very excited to try out the pen and paper game, and ending up finding it too absurd, pretentious and simplistic and giving up on it.

Nobody except those who made it like Numenera.

Are there seriously still people making regular campaigns of Numenera continuously, that have lasted for years, like is the case for countless other settings like D&D, Cthulhu or GURPS? I know guys who basically played the same Cthulhu or GURPS campaign for ten years.

The second reason why it failed IMO echoes the comment someone made in another thread about the gaming industry: game developers nowadays are game nerds who have few life experiences and have no frame of reference or ability to create good culture.

Millennials have lived very sheltered, controlled lives in safe environments, and due to growing up on the Internet, they haven't gone outside that much and had the experiences required to draw from and create good content. They also read useless web pages, Facebook posts, Twitter videos... whereas for those of us who knew life pre-Internet, we had to read classic novels and comics or films.

I dont think the numenera setting let the game down that much, in fact it kinda saved it at least for me.

The concept of worlds built on top of worlds is interesting and I like how relatively varied the set pieces were, places like the reef and bloom especially. Tides especially were captivating for me I just wish they were actively used more. Worldbuilding through oddities and numenera is a neat take as well and worked in the game as well as it could have.

Effort and edge replacing proper stats were definitely a downer but they get the job done I suppose. Thats one big weakness of the setting I can see.

Maybe it is original to have worlds within a world... but it's difficult to know exactly what Numenera is about for the average Joe. It's too weird and incoherent a mishmash.

Maybe the mishmashed weirdness can be a part of its charm? There's a greater chance of someone finding at least one thing that resonates with them. For me it was one of the little dead language fish you could catch at the beginning of the game. Its ultimately an insignificant throwaway item worth less than a few shins but I consciously kept it with me through my whole play through because I loved its design and concept.

Am I the only one who thinks it is mainly because of the Numenera setting that it failed? Wasn't it a flop

It doesn't seem to have, recently there was even a Numenera-themed Thunderstone (boardgame) expansion

We could've easily turned Aligern into a sysygy ghoul, or made Matkina a silver orphan.

WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU?! I hate the fact that all companions are boring humans. I'd MUCH rather have a silver orphan or a rogue Stychus or at least a Varjellen or a Lascar accompany me. Why does Colin imply that any story could be told with a human character? Fuck that, the whole reason P:T companions are so awesome is because they have their uniquely weird perspective on everything you encounter, due to being of a whole different people and often atypical even for their own race (FFG, Nordom)

This I couldn't agree with more. Outside of rhin and erritis the companions felt really lackluster and even though you do get a quest for them and some dialogue here and there they felt hard to relate to and very shallow. If inexile had made them extensions of the world they could have had far more to say and been far more interesting.

Out of everything one of the things that dissapointed me most was talking to one of my companions, asking how they were holding up, and getting the same canned response over and over again regardless of actions we just took, stats, or quests we just completed.

 

[oldmanpaco]

The biggest nontechnical problem with the game for me was that the Last Castoff was not actually Tormented. He was pretty much innocent and his actions were in reaction to what the Changing God did and had nothing to do with who he was. The central part of PS:T was that the NO was tied to his own actions and that dynamic is completely missing.

 

[Aenra]

What kind of assfuckery is this?

"Secret agent?"
What happened to transparency and the balls to be yourself, say your piece? Here of all places, not like anyone's disallowed to express their opinion, is it.

Some special faggot is too sensitive, so O.K.? Anonymously? Are we gonna be like SHIT sites, where "guest writers" shill or write at their whim? No consequences?
What the fuck is this guys? We are like, so not like that.

I understand why you'd all want this article up in the front page, why you wouldn't wish to let such an opportunity slip by the Codex. With you; but we do things a certain way here. This is a bad kind of a first.
Men have names and the balls to stand by their words.

DarkUnderlord Boss sorry for tagging you but for the love of God, don't let them do this again. It's a slippery slope and content/context depending, it can lead to even more assfuckery.

edit: because someone's bound to mention this. Yes, i know it's our questions. It's setting the precedent that bugs me. And come to think of it, since it's our questions, not the guest writer's, why would this sensitive faggot feel the need to post anonymously and why would we allow it? After all he's just a "representative", right?

 

[Neanderthal]

Too much PR shit in that, too many well used phrases we've all heard afore, Bomber Harris had right on it.

 

[Grauken]

What kind of assfuckery is this?

"Secret agent?"
What happened to transparency and the balls to be yourself, say your piece? Here of all places, not like anyone's disallowed to express their opinion, is it.

Some special faggot is too sensitive, so O.K.? Anonymously? Are we gonna be like SHIT sites, where "guest writers" shill or write at their whim? No consequences?
What the fuck is this guys? We are like, so not like that.

I understand why you'd all want this article up in the front page, why you wouldn't wish to let such an opportunity slip by the Codex. With you; but we do things a certain way here. This is a bad kind of a first.
Men have names and the balls to stand by their words.

It takes all kinds on the codex. Some for example are histronic drama queens

 

[Darth Roxor]

And I would say, perhaps, always tough, okay, maybe not as objective as it used to be, before that. It seemed like it got less objective and it’s not as helpful if people are too upset because then it’s hard for me to glean interesting and useful information.

You can only be objective when you like us.

Brian, you said it was messy, but why were there so few areas in the game? Defiance Bay alone in Pillars of Eternity has over thirty interior maps. Sagus Cliffs in T:ToN has two. How do you explain the difference?

Brian: One of the complaints about the game is that you could get through it in 30 or 40 hours, right? Now, think about a normal roleplaying game and how much percentage of your time is spent in combat. Whether it’s fodder or trash mobs or bosses, it’s usually over half the game. In Torment, it’s negligible. So we have a game that is actually larger than most but in which you can get through it quickly because we don’t force you to fight all the time.

Brian Fargo rolls dodge. Failure by 3 degrees!

What about the major characters, like the First Castoff?

George: She does have a portrait. What we tried to do was to make sure the critical story characters did have portraits. As far as I know, they do. Colin, does that sound right to you?

Colin: Originally, yeah. I don’t know that they made it into the game though.

Nope, we never had no problems with kommunikashun

Also, playtesting your own game, wot dat?

We were coming out of the last year, we weren’t quite sure of all that was or wasn’t going to be in. We knew about the NPCs, but we weren’t sure about the Voluminous Codex, there were some discussion points on things. We got busy with the holidays and underestimated how much we could do. I know it looked like we were hiding it, but we weren’t.

Yeah, right. Look at me taking this at face value. What a joke :russiastronk:

I mean, if a woman who has fractured herself across different dimensions is ordinary, then I guess I'm pretty out of touch.

"Hey, here's a woman who has fractured herself across different dimensions! Now she'll be acting just like every other generic mage or whatever character in every other game!

What do you mean she's ordinary?!"

The Codex community may come to forgive InXile for Gamescom, and the lost stretch goals, and the missed opportunities in their games, but there simply can't be a return to blissful innocence, to a time when the Codex, or at least a large section of the Codex, had faith.

 

[you know what time it is]

Nice interview, sure. But there's still a lot of PR talk and playing the victim there. Learning how to take a loss could do wonders for a lot of people, not just devs. The more you come up with excuses, the more complex the mental gymnastics get, eventually you start believing in your own bullshit and unknowingly slide into mediocrity.

You can see it a lot in Fargo's responses (the part about publishers is especially telling), his heart might have been in the right place initially (and I mean Interplay days), but he didn't learn from his mistakes, hence why he's working in a small ass studio while spewing average, uninspired products, yet wondering how come no one buys into it anymore.

Ziets' situation is weird though, man's consistently good as his content speaks for itself, yet he still works at inExile. I honestly don't get it.

 

[Aenra]

Some for example are histronic drama queens

If you lack what it takes to grasp a simple concept, what do you do in the Dex? Go edgy. Never fails.

 

[Goral]

Brian: Before we have a question, first, I want to apologize to you guys.- don't believe him

I quite used to enjoy reading the Codex. - don't believe him

I think somebody said that you guys weren’t a first tier website. There was a lot of insulting stuff. I apologize for the whole thing and the way it went down. - does he want to suggest that Codex is top tier after all or is he just stating the fact? Since he apologizes for that and considers it an insult I assume it's another lie and a spit to the face

Recently - I kind of stopped looking at it - but I heard it was saying horrible things about our guy in Thailand who was running an orphanage, or that there was Nazi stuff. - lol

I’m just trying to offer an olive branch here so that you guys at least understand that I’ll be honest about things we fucked up - Brian using this kind of language tries to show that he's being honest and talks like colleague with colleague but it also shows that he doesn't take Codex seriously, he would never use this kind of language with first tier website representatives.

Jim: I know that someone had mentioned that the Codex wasn’t top tier but for RPGs, I want to say, we view them as top tier. - PR spoken by PR guy

RPG Codex: Around what time did it became obvious that cuts had to be made? You guys talked about making an announcement; around what time did you decide this?
Brian: Late last year I think.

When did this interview happen?

Oh, and it's worth noting that our Kickstarter backers, or anybody who buys it retail, cannot rate the product on Steam. It has no impact. So we have these other 60,000 people who are happy and their ratings mean nothing, because it was "free" and "free" codes don't get ratings on Steam. This includes retail sales! So when you buy a game from retail and then you go on Steam and put in your code, it doesn't count. It's sort of a funny system.

QFT.

I saw some guy claiming today: I started playing Planescape: Torment again and I have to admit I'd rather be playing Torment: Tides of Numenera right now.

lol
All in all very interesting interview and the trip was worth it but the amount of lies and PR talk was as expected.

 

[Sentinel]

Pretty nice interview. Always nice to see developers speaking honestly.

Maybe with Ziets at the helm Wasteland 3 will end up being inXile's first good game. We'll see.

 

[Prime Junta]

So instead of spending that extended pre-prod on making a design and a plan, they spent it typing manically. Makes sense. Glad to have that cleared up.

 

[Grauken]

Now we need a follow-up with Kevin Saunders to get his perspective

 

[Crospy]

Brian: Well, you’re right, but let me answer that broadly and specifically. One of the things about crowd funding is that the crowd becomes our publisher, ultimately. Now, one of the things we like about industry publishers, at least the ones we work the best with, is that they are agile, that they don’t hold us to the specifics of the contract, that they kind of trust our judgment to do the right things in order to get the product complete and to hit the main beats we want to hit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heist_(video_game)

So much for trust. I mean, were it not for KS, you'd still be mostly relegated to making such great classics as Choplifter HD.

Also lulz:

Codemasters today announced they have cancelled their upcoming action title Hei$t. The British based publisher told the gaming website CVG that it had 'terminated Heist as a project'. Furthering the statement by announcing it was focused on high quality titles.

You don't even pass that low bar.

Once the KS craze dies, enjoy your career in shovelware.