Editorial RPG Codex Report: PAX East 2015, or How Chris Avellone Called the Codex Unprofessional

[General Maxson]

Sir Tim Cain has returned?

 

[Perkel]

Thanks mindx2 for the great interview. And thank you DarkUnderlord for helping me restore my account here. It has been a while.

Since i am not really good at good timing i will ask you about something from interview which i think heated up more people than supernova.
Can you comment more on TOEE source code ownership ? I think this news heated up ton of people here.

 

[Mastermind]

Josh Sawyer said:


Chris Avellone commented:


Josh Sawyer said:


Chris Avellone commented:

So Chris Avellone agrees with the talk about "balance"!

Maybe he was just being polite with the guys standing right there beside him.
If he really proves to believe in Sawyerism though, I'll reject Avellone too!

You know when you friend shows up with his new girlfriend and he is all happy, but you see that his gf is ugly as fuck and yet you can't just say it and instead just tell how luck he is to have her? That's how Avellone act there.

When did Chris Avellone become a good character system designer? He agreed with Sawyer because he doesn't give a shit.

 

[mastroego]

Sawyer's system might not be realistic (might affecting gun damage hurr durr), but it is not dumbed down compared to D&D (except magic memorization). It only plays differently, and that is what people can't accept.

That's not really it.
If one wants to make "all weapons equally viable", the essence of the Sawyer solution would basically be to make them all work the same.
You change the icon from Broadsword to Nunchaku, and there you are! Problem solved.
In 1/20 of the code too!
Problem is, the player who won't be fooled by the icon [ ] will see no reason to switch from Broadsword to Nunchaku.

This is the VERY ESSENCE of decline, in case people here failed to notice.
So this is how you deal with Sawyerism:

 

[Mastermind]

On POE, I am fine with Sawyer's system but the guy really needs a word filter that cuts out all the "I did it to cater to retards" explanations. He should just say "I want the player to make a wide variety of builds catering to various distinct attributes" and just leave it at that. The realism fags would still be butthurt but those of us not looking to play a real life simulator would be fine with it. Especially in the PoE's soul centered setting.

 

[J_C]

Thanks mindx2 for the great interview. And thank you DarkUnderlord for helping me restore my account here. It has been a while.

 

[Mastermind]

Sawyer's system might not be realistic (might affecting gun damage hurr durr), but it is not dumbed down compared to D&D (except magic memorization). It only plays differently, and that is what people can't accept.

That's not really it.
If one wants to make "all weapons equally viable", the essence of the Sawyer solution would basically be to make them all work the same.
You change the icon from Broadsword to Nunchaku, and there you are! Problem solved.

If PoE made all attributes increase your damage you'd have an accurate analogy. But they all do different things.

 

[Bleed the Man]

That's not really it.
If one wants to make "all weapons equally viable", the essence of the Sawyer solution would basically be to make them all work the same.
You change the icon from Broadsword to Nunchaku, and there you are! Problem solved.
In 1/20 of the code too!
Problem is, the player who won't be fooled by the icon [ ] will see no reason to switch from Broadsword to Nunchaku.

This is the VERY ESSENCE of decline, in case people here failed to notice.
So this is how you deal with Sawyerism:

It's astonishing how a lot of Sawyer haters actively misinterpret what Sawyer says so they can keep hating on him, no matter the amount of stuff in the game that proof them wrong.

 

[Blackthorne]

Let's be honest: "Professionalism" these days means pretending you have actual manners and couth, all while finding reprehensible ways of politely tossing each other's salad.


Bt

 

[mindx2]

Thanks mindx2 for the great interview. And thank you DarkUnderlord for helping me restore my account here. It has been a while.

Just remember Codex who's interview it was that brought Sir Timothy Cain home after all these years...

Spoiler

Of course, that will probably be his only post for another 10 years...

 

[LeStryfe79]

I've always thought of Tim Cain and St. Cuthbert as being the same person.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Thanks mindx2 for the great interview. And thank you DarkUnderlord for helping me restore my account here. It has been a while.

We are not worthy.

 

[vivec]

On POE, I am fine with Sawyer's system but the guy really needs a word filter that cuts out all the "I did it to cater to retards" explanations. He should just say "I want the player to make a wide variety of builds catering to various distinct attributes" and just leave it at that. The realism fags would still be butthurt but those of us not looking to play a real life simulator would be fine with it. Especially in the PoE's soul centered setting.

Unfortunately,

wide variety of builds catering to various distinct attributes

is not equivalent to equally viable either. The former is a strict understanding of what constitutes as Flavour. The latter is MMO centric design.

 

[TimCain]

Since i am not really good at good timing i will ask you about something from interview which i think heated up more people than supernova.
Can you comment more on TOEE source code ownership ? I think this news heated up ton of people here.

The Arcanum source code was used to make ToEE, and Troika retained ownership of both code bases. There are some contractual obligations that prevent me from releasing it (since having ToEE source code would allow anyone to compile a ToEE executable that had no DRM, which is a violation of Troika's contract with Atari). However, I am free to use that source code in any other way I please, including using it in full or in part in future games. Plus, that code used an OS abstraction library (meaning calls to any OS function like input, memory, graphics, etc went through the library), making the code fairly easy to port to other platforms.

 

[Mastermind]

On POE, I am fine with Sawyer's system but the guy really needs a word filter that cuts out all the "I did it to cater to retards" explanations. He should just say "I want the player to make a wide variety of builds catering to various distinct attributes" and just leave it at that. The realism fags would still be butthurt but those of us not looking to play a real life simulator would be fine with it. Especially in the PoE's soul centered setting.

Unfortunately,

wide variety of builds catering to various distinct attributes

is not equivalent to equally viable either. The former is a strict understanding of what constitutes as Flavour. The latter is MMO centric design.

They don't have to be equally viable. The best part about a complex character system is coming up with a fun build that works, even if it's not as good as the cookie cutter build everybody copies off the game's wiki. Once you master a system they're almost always the most fun builds to play. Plus, there's still time for Sawyer to balance them properly.

 

[King Crispy]

The Arcanum source code was used to make ToEE

Interesting. Never knew that.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Since i am not really good at good timing i will ask you about something from interview which i think heated up more people than supernova.
Can you comment more on TOEE source code ownership ? I think this news heated up ton of people here.

The Arcanum source code was used to make ToEE, and Troika retained ownership of both code bases. There are some contractual obligations that prevent me from releasing it (since having ToEE source code would allow anyone to compile a ToEE executable that had no DRM, which is a violation of Troika's contract with Atari). However, I am free to use that source code in any other way I please, including using it in full or in part in future games. Plus, that code used an OS abstraction library (meaning calls to any OS function like input, memory, graphics, etc went through the library), making the code fairly easy to port to other platforms.

Any chance of seeing a ToEE-like game in the future? What would be pros and cons there, assuming it can be funded via Kickstarter? Can it use the D20 license?

 

[Shevek]

Sawyer's system might not be realistic (might affecting gun damage hurr durr), but it is not dumbed down compared to D&D (except magic memorization). It only plays differently, and that is what people can't accept.

That's not really it.
If one wants to make "all weapons equally viable", the essence of the Sawyer solution would basically be to make them all work the same.
You change the icon from Broadsword to Nunchaku, and there you are! Problem solved.
In 1/20 of the code too!
Problem is, the player who won't be fooled by the icon [ ] will see no reason to switch from Broadsword to Nunchaku.

This is the VERY ESSENCE of decline, in case people here failed to notice.

Systemswise, PoEs weapons are far more varied than the IE games.

 

[Sceptic]

Any chance of seeing a ToEE-like game in the future? What would be pros and cons there, assuming it can be funded via Kickstarter? Can it use the D20 license?

 

[vivec]

On POE, I am fine with Sawyer's system but the guy really needs a word filter that cuts out all the "I did it to cater to retards" explanations. He should just say "I want the player to make a wide variety of builds catering to various distinct attributes" and just leave it at that. The realism fags would still be butthurt but those of us not looking to play a real life simulator would be fine with it. Especially in the PoE's soul centered setting.

Unfortunately,

wide variety of builds catering to various distinct attributes

is not equivalent to equally viable either. The former is a strict understanding of what constitutes as Flavour. The latter is MMO centric design.

They don't have to be equally viable. The best part about a complex character system is coming up with a fun build that works, even if it's not as good as the cookie cutter build everybody copies off the game's wiki. Once you master a system they're almost always the most fun builds to play. Plus, there's still time for Sawyer to balance them properly.

Don't get the last part or the underlying trolol. But thoroughly agree with your idea of 'fun' build. This is exactly what is missing in new games.

 

[Mastermind]

Don't get the last part or the underlying trolol.

People here constantly complain that Sawyer balances too much.

 

[Mastermind]

Since i am not really good at good timing i will ask you about something from interview which i think heated up more people than supernova.
Can you comment more on TOEE source code ownership ? I think this news heated up ton of people here.

The Arcanum source code was used to make ToEE, and Troika retained ownership of both code bases. There are some contractual obligations that prevent me from releasing it (since having ToEE source code would allow anyone to compile a ToEE executable that had no DRM, which is a violation of Troika's contract with Atari). However, I am free to use that source code in any other way I please, including using it in full or in part in future games. Plus, that code used an OS abstraction library (meaning calls to any OS function like input, memory, graphics, etc went through the library), making the code fairly easy to port to other platforms.

Any news on final system requirements? My PC blew up so all I have is my integrated graphics 6 year old laptop. Will I be able to turn off the graphics and play it on that or am I forever doomed?

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Since i am not really good at good timing i will ask you about something from interview which i think heated up more people than supernova.
Can you comment more on TOEE source code ownership ? I think this news heated up ton of people here.

The Arcanum source code was used to make ToEE, and Troika retained ownership of both code bases. There are some contractual obligations that prevent me from releasing it (since having ToEE source code would allow anyone to compile a ToEE executable that had no DRM, which is a violation of Troika's contract with Atari). However, I am free to use that source code in any other way I please, including using it in full or in part in future games. Plus, that code used an OS abstraction library (meaning calls to any OS function like input, memory, graphics, etc went through the library), making the code fairly easy to port to other platforms.

Any news on final system requirements? My PC blew up so all I have is my integrated graphics 6 year old laptop. Will I be able to turn off the graphics and play it on that or am I forever doomed?

Tim Cain has returned to the Codex and you are asking him about PoE system requirements? Ask badler those kind of questions (no offense Brandon ).

 

[Infinitron]

According to Sensuki, who cannot be suspected of fanboyism, PoE excels at offering a variety of fun builds. The combat experience may not be to your liking, but the game is definitely not dumbed down in the way that mastroego types tend to care about the most ("cookie cutter feel", characters that all feel the same, etc)

 

[crakkie]

Wait a minute. You brought a box copy of New Vegas for MCA and Sawyer to sign but you didn't bring a Fallout box for Tim Fucking Cain to sign?

Spoiler

still writeup