Review RPG Codex Review: Divinity: Original Sin

[Korron]

I really feel like the game makes open exploration counter-intuitive with all the hard level locks. I wandered in to a place where characters were 3 levels higher than me, defeated all of them, and when I arrived at the boss I literally had nothing in my arsenal to that could outpace his healing magic yet he could not kill my characters. Welp, time to respend a couple hours searching all the other parts of the open area until I find the appropriate zone for my level. It seems like there is a very defined route you need to go that is obliquely mentioned, but exploration is discouraged because of the restrictive level differences. So I have to play find the stupid fucking hole in the ground that I missed cause who gives a damn what Yzcxcvxst said. It's hard to want to pay attention to all the characters because I can just not force myself to give a shit about generic fantasy tropes anymore, and even though I love the combat I just am finding it hard to force myself to want to constantly reset when I start advancing into a zone and it turns out I shouldn't be there. Give me some clear directions if you're going to make fighting higher levels monsters so restrictive that the game can't be played in a open style. I want to play the game, not waste time getting to the next encounter the designer deems appropriate.

 

[set]

The game probably would be a little more open if they had implemented a RTwP combat system. Not sure why they went turn based with this one. But it turned out well despite that.

 

[Overboard]

when a Jew brofists your posts, i need do nothing but rest my case.

You should learn to stop worrying and love the Jew.

 

[Night Goat]

Angthoron's praise of the character system invalidates everything he says about anything forevermore. The traits are fucking awful - instead of making the choices you want to make, you'll have to make the choices that will benefit your build. I'm all for choices and consequences, but this shit effectively removes choice from the equation.

Far worse, though, are the skills. Many of them are useless, and this includes the starting weapon skills because Tiberium weapons have their own skill and aren't affected by the others. Have you been intuitively spending points on the skills you use instead of hoarding them for half the game? Lolfuckyou!

 

[Angthoron]

Angthoron's praise of the character system invalidates everything he says about anything forevermore. The traits are fucking awful - instead of making the choices you want to make, you'll have to make the choices that will benefit your build. I'm all for choices and consequences, but this shit effectively removes choice from the equation.

Not sure how this is different from other games. You'll always select skills that support your primary build anyway. And you know what, even that's not really true - you can take traits that aren't paramount to min-max. Yeah, that'll make your life harder, but you can. I a few co-op runs where my friends picked what they wanted, not what they wanted for min-maxing, and were actually surprised when I explained how much better skill X was than the skill Y that they were using. So yeah, I don't know what you mean by lack of choice, but I guess it applies for you, so, eh. I guess your opinion on everything is now invalidated for me or something.

The real problem with traits is that there's too much fluff. Why would someone want to sacrifice 1 int for 2 charisma? It's a funny enough trait to have on the list but really, why?

My only real gripes with the game are:
* Trying to backstab and it fucking walks you around because the animation moves your cursor slightly just before you click...Very annoying
* If you could use the map to select a location, click on it and actually have that location shown. Why do you have to scroll manually to where you want to click to walk to it.

Damn, I knew I forgot something in my list of complaints. These two can get quite annoying when exploring a zone.

 

[RK47]

Best shit game ever.
If you shut up and don't nitpick, it's fun.

 

[Volourn]

"Angthoron's praise of the character system invalidates everything he says about anything forevermore. The traits are fucking awful - instead of making the choices you want to make, you'll have to make the choices that will benefit your build. I'm all for choices and consequences, but this shit effectively removes choice from the equation."

*fart noise for retartetness spotted*

 

[Angthoron]

If you shut up and don't nitpick, it's fun.

To be fair, this goes for a whole lot of stuff. I could say the same about, say, vanilla Skyrim or vanilla FO3.

Difference is, when I play those, I want to nitpick the fuck out of them because it ends up being the only fun thing for me to do. In the case of D: OS I had other things to do most of the time. The time I wanted to actively nitpick kicked in much later than it has been for quite a while.

 

[tuluse]

Nice review.

I've only played a couple hours of the game since I've been wasting spending my time with the WL2 beta, but even in that short of time I really liked how it rewards experimentation with the environment and using skills in creative ways.

I have to agree with Night Goat though that this is not a good character system. It's not the worst I've ever seen (*ahem* Arcanum), but it's very messy and unclear. Also, cooldowns.

 

[J_C]

I just am finding it hard to force myself to want to constantly reset when I start advancing into a zone and it turns out I shouldn't be there. Give me some clear directions if you're going to make fighting higher levels monsters so restrictive that the game can't be played in a open style. I want to play the game, not waste time getting to the next encounter the designer deems appropriate.

Translation: I got used to popamole games so much, that I can't play an RPG without level scaling and a quest arrow. Seriously, cut you whining, if you play a game without level scaling, this happens, and it should happen.

makes open exploration counter-intuitive with all the hard level locks.

No, it is just the opposite. If you find an area too hard for you, you can go explore another area. If you want a game with open exploration like in TES game, where you can go anywhere, anytime, and you will find level scaled enemies, go play that type of game.

 

[RK47]

Oh, we still disagreeing over this?
I believe this game is a huge success. It's fun.

There were things that annoy me, and for me, pushing through the game is merely just to kill the game so people won't pull that 'oh you didn't even finish it' card in here.
Someone in the thread already mentioned the 'same tactic' halfway into the game works mostly till the end. This is what discouraged me the most throughout my co-op.
Every time I try to experiment with high tier abilities I get destroyed due to the AP bloat.
IMO, high tier ability, talents are not worth picking at all. It's badly balanced.

I look back when it was fresh at low to mid levels and yes, it was fun.
It was probably one of the most fun skill-experimentation I've had in RPGs in the past decade.
But once the experiment stops, and the AI is seen as 'randomly stupid/randomly smart' as it is - and the fact that simple combo even worked on end game bosses makes the game finish on a low for me. I was just glad it was over with.

You said the co-op achieved their aim of making randoms cooperate. That - I challenge. I completely disagree.

This game's quest structure makes random co-op a pain. A real pain. Too often, someone had to grab the reins while the other remain passive - else the whole 'what is happening, what are we doing, where are we going?' question in co-op came up too often. I learned it the hard way when I abandoned the run with Broseph. Who is to blame? Personally, I believe both the game and gamers are to blame - when I start on a second co-op run this time, I was wiser. I requested for one half of the pyramid, and stood perfectly still. I auto-follow camera on player 1, and tapping on the pyramid hot key just to 'follow the partner narrative' as needed. Doing this improves the experience somewhat - but is this really the best solution to the problem? Clearly Larian needs to work on this more.

Now, with random people - I don't even want to imagine it. I drop in and out of 3-4 games where I took 5-10 minutes patiently trying to explain what this game is about - but nope - they wander off, getting killed by mobs 2 levels above them etc.

There were other issues like UI, inventory clutter, small font, all these minor nitpicks that add up. You'd think they got it fixed after a month of release - but apparently Personality AI is more of a priority. Attempts to raise this issues were met with some weird 'fanboy defense mechanism' in their forums ranging from 'small time dev, wear glasses, shut up it's fun, don't nitpick' which made me think 'Eh, I hope they take note' ; only to realize they've taken a month off after release and hence - it's probably gonna go unnoticed. d I'm shaking my head in real life again, fuck it.

Make no mistake - I love this game but I hope the devs learn from their mistakes and improve rather than pat themselves on their back and just rehash this whole gameplay over and over again.
Make the SP & MP experience distinct. No more of that 'Personality' trying to emulate a co-op partner, no more separate purses in SP, etc please. Bigger font. UI Scaling needs to be on separate sliders, skill rebalancing, better narratives.

I'd back another game like this again - I just hope they improve upon it.

 

[RK47]

I just am finding it hard to force myself to want to constantly reset when I start advancing into a zone and it turns out I shouldn't be there. Give me some clear directions if you're going to make fighting higher levels monsters so restrictive that the game can't be played in a open style. I want to play the game, not waste time getting to the next encounter the designer deems appropriate.

Translation: I got used to popamole games so much, that I can't play an RPG without level scaling and a quest arrow. Seriously, cut you whining, if you play a game without level scaling, this happens, and it should happen.

The level indicator needs to be bigger painted in blood red. And the portrait needs to be changed to a skull.
Name plate size needs to fill up 1/4 of the screen. And death metal theme needs to play when you are underleveled.

 

[Pope Amole II]

The real problem with traits is that there's too much fluff. Why would someone want to sacrifice 1 int for 2 charisma? It's a funny enough trait to have on the list but really, why?

Because fighters, rogues and rangers have no use for intelligence? And rangers are also somewhat talent-independent so they can spend a trait there? And some npc persuasions actually require a rather hard checks?

I dunno why the talent system gets criticized here so harshly. There are tons of viable stuff there, actually, and I also wouldn't say that the game offers no build variability (especially in the double lone wolf mode). Sure, it has some flaws (as all rpg systems have), but most aren't actually mentioned in the review - like, for example, some hirelings being seriously overpowered (fucking Caine, first and foremost; or something more innocent like Nerea or Zalazzor who are still much better than your average lvl 1 char).

 

[cvv]

So I thought the only review that could rival our own would be by the GBanshee but it's not really a contest, as it turned out. It's dry and boring, full of detailed mechanics descriptions that nobody reads in a review ever. But Carter's overall conclusion and rating is closer to my own than the Angthoron's.

I've seen lots of reports of people really enjoying Divinity: Original Sin -- including PC Gamer calling it the 16th best RPG of all time -- but I'm just not there. I liked Original Sin, but I didn't love it.....Still, while you shouldn't necessarily believe that Original Sin is the best thing since sliced bread, it's still a worthwhile purchase.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/reviews/114241-divinity-original-sin-review.html

 

[ERYFKRAD]

The real problem with traits is that there's too much fluff. Why would someone want to sacrifice 1 int for 2 charisma? It's a funny enough trait to have on the list but really, why?

Because fighters, rogues and rangers have no use for intelligence? And rangers are also somewhat talent-independent so they can spend a trait there? And some npc persuasions actually require a rather hard checks?

I dunno why the talent system gets criticized here so harshly. There are tons of viable stuff there, actually, and I also wouldn't say that the game offers no build variability (especially in the double lone wolf mode). Sure, it has some flaws (as all rpg systems have), but most aren't actually mentioned in the review - like, for example, some hirelings being seriously overpowered (fucking Caine, first and foremost; or something more innocent like Nerea or Zalazzor who are still much better than your average lvl 1 char).

Funbuilding Div:OS plis.

 

[Korron]

I just am finding it hard to force myself to want to constantly reset when I start advancing into a zone and it turns out I shouldn't be there. Give me some clear directions if you're going to make fighting higher levels monsters so restrictive that the game can't be played in a open style. I want to play the game, not waste time getting to the next encounter the designer deems appropriate.

Translation: I got used to popamole games so much, that I can't play an RPG without level scaling and a quest arrow. Seriously, cut you whining, if you play a game without level scaling, this happens, and it should happen.

makes open exploration counter-intuitive with all the hard level locks.

No, it is just the opposite. If you find an area too hard for you, you can go explore another area. If you want a game with open exploration like in TES game, where you can go anywhere, anytime, and you will find level scaled enemies, go play that type of game.

No that's not what I want, but I do want a game that's respectful of my time. I'm specifically talking about the second area though. I went all the way through the trial only to fight the immaculate leader whose healing outpaces my damage. I killled every other enemy, and got stuck in an infinite loop. Sunk a couple hours and had to go back. I went to the east of Silvergaard and fought some orcs that were way too powerful. I was around level 9. I go back to the mushroom (despite not wanting to kill it) and kill it because I can't find the magician that will let me in without killing it (turns out the Magician to get into there without killing the mushroom is through spiders in the desert that I will never be able to defeat at level 9). Finally I get into the white witches area and am doing well. Then I get rocked by 3 earth elementals. I decide I must have missed some experience in the first area, go back, and realize I missed a cave by the Orcs that I did not intuit was a cave when I first started playing the game (It's a skull with a hole that comes to an end 2 feet into the cave). I feel pretty pigeon-holed, and I think the tradeoff is that while every combat encounter presents a real challenge they have designed a world that doesn't channel open exploration well. I've played a lot of RPGs, and if I felt it was a difficulty issue I'd change the difficulty. I honestly feel punished for exploring. Yes I don't have the patience for this game (I'm going to keep playing anyway), but I think you give this game too much credit just because it has the absence of level-scaling and quest indicators. At least the IE games had rich journal entries instead of the vague crap in D:OS. I enjoy the combat. I just wish I didn't have to spend so much time finding the right area for combat.

 

[cvv]

I went all the way through the trial only to fight the immaculate leader whose healing outpaces my damage. I killled every other enemy, and got stuck in an infinite loop. Sunk a couple hours and had to go back. I went to the east of Silvergaard and fought some orcs that were way too powerful. I was around level 9.

First of all - bumrushing the desert area while at lvl9? Did the lvl14 enemies there didn't give you a hint you're not supposed to be there yet?

And what are you doing traipsing around Luculla Forest at lvl9 anyway? How much of the Cyseal content have you skipped? When I started hacking my way through Luculla, I was lvl 11 and I levelled up to 13 before I even attempted fighting the spiders.

 

[Korron]

I went all the way through the trial only to fight the immaculate leader whose healing outpaces my damage. I killled every other enemy, and got stuck in an infinite loop. Sunk a couple hours and had to go back. I went to the east of Silvergaard and fought some orcs that were way too powerful. I was around level 9.

First of all - bumrushing the desert area while at lvl9? Did the lvl14 enemies there didn't give you a hint you're not supposed to be there yet?

And what are you doing traipsing around Luculla Forest at lvl9 anyway? How much of the Cyseal content have you skipped? When I started hacking my way through Luculla, I was lvl 11 and I levelled up to 13 before I even attempted fighting the spiders.

I explored everything in the overworld. I have quite a few open quests though, and I'm not sure if they all resolve in the first area or carry over to the 2nd (some do at least). I missed that cave, and it'll put me at 10 which I know will shift things favorably because of the new abilities. I saw the spiders, and went around them. I killed everything in the trial with ease up until the last priest so I thought it'd be fine. The point is I've spent 4+ hours exploring this area with no success, and that experience got old much quicker.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Funbuilding Div:OS plis.

In 2 weeks, man. This one has VTMB already planned and the next one will be the charm. Not to mention that I've yet to finish the game - it's colossal and I want to try so much in it...

 

[Night Goat]

I'm not saying the game needs a quest compass, but it should have been more clear about what you're supposed to be doing. For most of act 2, I was wandering around aimlessly, trying to find level-appropriate stuff to do because I had lost the ploy. Turns out I had missed a pixel-hunt for the button to open the secret room in the witch's cabin, and by the time I found this out I had outleveled the area by five levels. That, the fucked skill system, and the extreme tonal dissonance in act 3 made me lose interest in the game.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I look back when it was fresh at low to mid levels and yes, it was fun.

Hate to admit it, but I'm in this boat. I was completely on board with this game from the very beginning and then right around the Phantom Forest I just sort of lost interest and haven't really felt inclined (get it?) to pick it up again. Probably will finish it just 'cause at some point, but not exactly itching to. Honestly I think they really screwed up with their pacing, difficulty curve and content density. Still miles better than what WL2 seems to be offering though...and I certainly don't have that much more hope for any other KS game.

No way in fukkin' hell.

So what's it gonna be, princess? Who are the top contenders?

 

[cvv]

So what's it gonna be, princess? Who are the top contenders?

Honestly, I put MMX a notch higher this year. It was flawed as well, the plot was equally retarded and it was nowhere near as beautiful but the pacing was more even. And I simply enjoyed myself from start to end, unlike D:OS. Plus I've always been more of a blobber guy.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if Larian had released a 40-50hr game and not a 100hr game (non-Volournians obviously). Would everyone have been rating it really highly and begging for more? Did making all that extra content, high-level slog and weaker late game backfire?

 

[Crooked Bee]

I dunno, a 40-50 hr game would've been too short imo, but then again I did enjoy D:OS all the way through and was happy it lasted that long. I'm also really looking forward to replaying all those hours once a good AI mod is out.

 

[J_C]

I dunno, a 40-50 hr game would've been too short imo, but then again I did enjoy D:OS all the way through and was happy it lasted that long. I'm also really looking forward to replaying all those hours once a good AI mod is out.

I was a little burnt out in the last 20 hours to be honest, so I wouldn't mind a bit shorter game. Not that I didn't enjoy DOS's endgame, but I started to get tired of it by the end. 40 hours is a little short, but 60 is A-OK in my book.