Codex Review RPG Codex Review: The Dungeon of Naheulbeuk

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Personally it reminded me of TOEE for some reason, maybe it was just for superficial reasons such as the turn based combat, primarily involving dungeon crawling and attacks of opportunity. It was definitely the most fun I had with tactical turn based combat in a dungeon in a while.

The resemblance between The Dungeon of Naheulbeuk and The Temple of Elemental Evil is more than superficial, as they're both combat-focused, with turn-based tactical combat, and party-based, with larger party-size (8) than usual in CRPGs. Similarly, they both have limited exploration aspects, despite being dungeon-crawlers. The principle difference is that ToEE permits character generation, which is supplemented by a number of potential NPC party-members to reach up to 8 total, whereas Naheulbeuk provides substantial character customization via progression but requires the player to use the standard pre-generated 7 PCs with one later addition from a set of three pre-generated characters.

Another key distinction is that Naheulbeuk includes a character based on the Codex's own Lilura:

The peasant you quoted plays current gen TB games, such as the ones Larian makes.

There is a yawning gulf between current gen TB accessibility and the accessibility of Jagged Alliance 2, Silent Storm and ToEE, which would break the peasant's brain.

Not in my era, and not in my genre. You come off as a console peasant the way you're harping on. Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that you're starting to sound like Fluent, Falksi and jRPGers.

Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that Diablo approaches the quality of a well-coded SHMUP. And if Diablo's bullet-hell didn't remind you of SHMUPs, then you're a peasant of gaming.

 

[Arthandas]

Two codex reviews in a week?! Jesus Christ slow down guys

 

[Zeriel]

Personally it reminded me of TOEE for some reason, maybe it was just for superficial reasons such as the turn based combat, primarily involving dungeon crawling and attacks of opportunity. It was definitely the most fun I had with tactical turn based combat in a dungeon in a while.

The resemblance between The Dungeon of Naheulbeuk and The Temple of Elemental Evil is more than superficial, as they're both combat-focused, with turn-based tactical combat, and party-based, with larger party-size (8) than usual in CRPGs. Similarly, they both have limited exploration aspects, despite being dungeon-crawlers. The principle difference is that ToEE permits character generation, which is supplemented by a number of potential NPC party-members to reach up to 8 total, whereas Naheulbeuk provides substantial character customization via progression but requires the player to use the standard pre-generated 7 PCs with one later addition from a set of three pre-generated characters.

Another key distinction is that Naheulbeuk includes a character based on the Codex's own Lilura:

The peasant you quoted plays current gen TB games, such as the ones Larian makes.

There is a yawning gulf between current gen TB accessibility and the accessibility of Jagged Alliance 2, Silent Storm and ToEE, which would break the peasant's brain.

Not in my era, and not in my genre. You come off as a console peasant the way you're harping on. Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that you're starting to sound like Fluent, Falksi and jRPGers.

Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that Diablo approaches the quality of a well-coded SHMUP. And if Diablo's bullet-hell didn't remind you of SHMUPs, then you're a peasant of gaming.

Lilura would never call anyone else "promising".

 

[Grunker]

Speaking of how this game has weird additional features everywhere, the choice of either a male or female narrator - fully voiced throughout the entire game and mutually exclusive - must be one of the most odd features in a game ever.

I'd love to know why the fuck that inclusion was made, lol. Did they just swim in money?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I'd love to know why the fuck that inclusion was made

Easy, they're French.

 

[Hellraiser]

I'd love to know why the fuck that inclusion was made, lol. Did they just swim in money?

Apart from really swimming in cash, I would bet on some gubmint subsidy requirement regarding female participation in a tech project or something. Maybe the narration cost them way less than the gibs they got for it, or even if they got *just* full money back, they decided why not.

There is also a slim chance they did a casting and couldn't pick between the two voice actors.

 

[Nortar]

Speaking of how this game has weird additional features everywhere, the choice of either a male or female narrator - fully voiced throughout the entire game and mutually exclusive - must be one of the most odd features in a game ever.

I'd love to know why the fuck that inclusion was made, lol. Did they just swim in money?

If I'm not mistaken, in the original show all characters were voiced just by 2 actors.
So it would make sense if they also did VO for the Narrator.

Edit: Imdb says that I am mistaken.

 

[Infinitron]

Note that this game was in development for an incredibly long time. Bubbles saw it at Gamescom back in 2015! So I don't know how exactly the budget worked out, but they definitely had time to add stuff.

 

[Grunker]

in the original show all

wait, what?

*googles*

HUH: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4959372/

I had no idea

Note that this game was in development for an incredibly long time. Bubbles saw it at Gamescom back in 2015! So I don't know how exactly the budget worked out, but they definitely had time to add stuff.

Forgot about that completely, but that does explain all the additions.

 

[Nortar]

in the original show all

wait, what?

*googles*

HUH: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4959372/

I had no idea

Even the TV series is not "the original", haha. It was an internet "audio"-show.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_donjon_de_Naheulbeuk
And it turns out that the creator - John Lang - did voice most of the characters himself.

Another curious thing, that the first RPG incarnation on Naheulbeuk used rules based on The Dark Eye, which is also used in Blackguards.

 

[Grunker]

the first RPG incarnation on Naheulbeuk used rules based on The Dark Eye

Glad they dropped that at least. It's one of the most underwhelming things about Blackguards #controversial

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

The game looks fun. Will play it.

 

[Rincewind]

Good review overall, and I largely agree with the general conclusions. You're doing a good job at popularising this game as it definitely deserves more attention!

However, I've noticed a few trends in the article that made me scratch my head a bit:

The bottom line, however, is this: none of Dungeon of Naheulbeuk’s systems are that complex or even novel on their own (except maybe the facing rules, which I will defend with the same autistic fervour that white knights can be expected to apply towards strange women on Twitter). However, there are so many of them and they work so flawlessly while interacting that the resulting symphony of combat is sufficiently interesting to hold your attention.

Given how basic the game’s systems are in essence, this is a fairly major accomplishment that speaks to the successful design of these characters.

Each character has a rudimentary active skill tree and a passive skill tree, and since they are so simple, it is a mercy that each spent point has a fairly high impact.

It does come with the caveat, however, that none of the game's systems have the breadth or variety of a "true RPG", and so purists might want to steer clear.

I agree about that lack of item variety, but the game's systems being "too simple" — compared to what?

Any fool can add layers upon layers of complexity to something relatively easily, but it takes ingenuity and a lot of work to reduce complexity to the bare essence while still meeting the design goals. Which in this case is making the combat fun, accessible, while still tactically challenging and interesting.

I find the tactical combat system in Naheulbeuk far more interesting than anything D&D I've played so far. Gold Box games would be an obvious comparison, but surely the SSI combat system is a lot simpler and results in less interesting combat encounters. Or another example, Age of Decadece; I really enjoyed the combat in that game, but it's much simpler than the Naheulbeuk combat system. Not sure what "breadth or variety of a true RPG" games are you talking about either; in a lot of other good RPGs (considered "true" by many) the systems and the combat are a lot simpler (Betrayal at Krondor, Fallout, Gothic, ELEX, Baldur's Gate, Witcher, Eye of the Beholder, just to name a few). So which exact RPGs are you exactly referring to, I'm genuinely curious now.

I find the combat system in Naheulbeuk so good that I really think they should try to license it to other companies. I wouldn't mind playing a series of adventures using the same (or very similar) combat system, but in a serious setting with more fleshed out and less linear stories. Something similar to what SSI did with their engine back in the day.

Less-than-eggcellent customization
Cocking up the curve
Fowl play
The eggonomics of indie
Chick or treat?

Okay, appreciating the humour of the game might be a personal thing (I mostly found it entertaining and I think it added a lot to the atmosphere, especially the Dwarf, the Elf, and the Barbarian, and I'm not one to enjoy American comedy style bodily jokes), but come on...

 

[Grunker]

compared to what?

Compared to most fullscale RPGs - be that modern ones like Kingmaker or Pillars, or older ones like Wizardry or Baldur's Gate. I think it's important - given all the praise I heap on the game - to clearly express that this game does not have the amount of customization or system complexity that a normal RPG has. And that its successes come from a great number of very simple things added together rather than the core systems being that involved in and off themselves

This is especially true for customization I think. Where I am overall very happy with combat, I do feel like customization is just "good enough". Leveling up never really excited me as much as in most fullscale RPGs, while combat often excited me more.

With regards to the rest of your post, that's exactly it. I think objectively, these design choices work. But given that many people on this site vehemently dislike modern designs like the ones DoN employ, I thought I would be remiss if I did not clearly explain to people what they could expect. Regardless of my own likes and dislikes.

but come on...

It seems we do not agree on what constitutes poultry in motion

 

[ERYFKRAD]

It seems we do not agree on what constitutes poultry in motion

Please refrain from fowl language.

 

[Grunker]

It seems we do not agree on what constitutes poultry in motion

Please refrain from fowl language.

Never. Talk is cheep, friendo

 

[Rincewind]

Compared to most fullscale RPGs - be that modern ones like Kingmaker or Pillars, or older ones like Wizardry or Baldur's Gate. I think it's important - given all the praise I heap on the game - to clearly express that this game does not have the amount of customization or system complexity that a normal RPG has. And that its successes come from a great number of very simple things added together rather than the core systems being that involved in and off themselves

Oh yeah, I definitely don't see DoN as a full-scale RPG, of course. Cannot disagree on the very limited customisation options either. I was just talking purely about the party-based tactical combat, which in my opinion beats Baldur's Gate's combat by miles, for example. I'm not really an expert in D&D rules either, but they seem to be comparable or even simpler than the DoN rules (well, at least what the computer cRPGs implemented). Haven't played Kingmaker or Pillars yet, so can't compare it to those.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful reply!

 

[thesecret1]

Compared to most fullscale RPGs - be that modern ones like Kingmaker or Pillars, or older ones like Wizardry or Baldur's Gate. I think it's important - given all the praise I heap on the game - to clearly express that this game does not have the amount of customization or system complexity that a normal RPG has. And that its successes come from a great number of very simple things added together rather than the core systems being that involved in and off themselves

Dunno man, for me, Baldur's Gate combat boiled down to "open up with a fireball or several, then right click to have everyone go and bash the stragglers to death"

 

[Grunker]

Compared to most fullscale RPGs - be that modern ones like Kingmaker or Pillars, or older ones like Wizardry or Baldur's Gate. I think it's important - given all the praise I heap on the game - to clearly express that this game does not have the amount of customization or system complexity that a normal RPG has. And that its successes come from a great number of very simple things added together rather than the core systems being that involved in and off themselves

Dunno man, for me, Baldur's Gate combat boiled down to "open up with a fireball or several, then right click to have everyone go and bash the stragglers to death"

That's gameplay, not system complexity. As you can read from my RTwP retrospective I vehemently dislike AD&D, but it has more number-by-number complexity systems-wise than Naheulbeuk. The fact that it often produces such simple results is an artifact of the poor design.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Thanks for the review Grunker. Very detailed and in-depth. I’ve been hemming and hawing about this one for months now, but will pick it up tonight on the strength of your review.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Dungeon of what?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Dungeon of what?

Naheulbeuk

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Dungeon of what?

Dungeon of prestigious Codex reference:

 

[fantadomat]

Dungeon of what?

Naheulbeuk

The best RPG from the last year.

 

[[UCHIHA]XxDarkSasuke420xX]

idk why you need a 10,000 word review art is trash = game is shit 0/10 simple as