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Incline RPGs where party members aren't mindless slaves

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by rusty_shackleford, Sep 22, 2021.

  1. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    Examples:
    • Leaving because they disagree with your actions(probably the most common example of this)
    • Leaving because they can't stand being around another party member(baldur's gate)
    • Refusing to go to certain areas(wizardry 8 companions do this and you can actually get around it by kidnapping knocking them out and dragging them there, they even complain about it but strangely don't (afaik) leave)
    • Interject during conversations either adding more information or changing the entire outcome
    • Refusing to follow orders during combat(wasteland 2)

    Can you think of more examples of this happening and in what games it happens in?
     
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  2. Fluent Augur Patron The Real Fanboy

    Fluent
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    Realms Of Arkania HD. Unironically. :)

    One of my favorite memories was entering a cave dungeon and getting about to the 3rd floor. We scratched and clawed our way there, we were running very low on resources and I am halfway into the floor when one of my Fighters says, "I can't do it! I can't go any further. I'm going topside to wait until you're done here." and left the party. I completed the dungeon by the skin of my teeth, got some sweet loot and stuff and met back with him outside. It led to some serious anxiety and dread that RPGs just often don't have where everything is fairly predictable and easy. He had Claustrophobia by the way, the Dark Eye system also rolls negative traits for all your characters, and they react like that in various situations.

    RoAHD is in a much better state nowadays. I will return to it again sometime and urge others to ignore what they heard about it and give it a solid shot if you really love old-school type CRPGs. It's a 1:1 remake of the original, choppy and rough edges and all, but worth it for the unique experiences it offers.
     
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  3. Think big! Smoking Dicks

    Think big!
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    I remember Magnus left my party in Arcanum because I shot a pig.

    Probably not the best example of what you're asking for.
     
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  4. Krivol Magister

    Krivol
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    Jagged Alliance 2 - they can leave if paired with unliked stuff
    BG 1 & 2 - especially 1 (unironically), where good and bad char NPCs can fight each other, and leave if reputation is too high/low, in BG2 interfering in dialogues is quite common. (you can put all BioWare games here, and 'spiritual successors like PoE)
    Fallout 1,2 NV - yeah, this one is not that clear - Ian can attack you if you start slaughtering Shady Sands, Sulik would do the same in Klamath; in NV Boons will attack all legionnaires on sight and one of the chicks could leave if you join the legion.
    Betrayal at Krondor - well, the whole party is kind of NPC-built but they often add something in dialogues.

    But tbh 99% of "banters" are shit. DA:O has plenty of those and the game is just stupid anyway. I don't know why you are looking for something like this. Play mindless blob and add banters in your head or something.
     
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  5. Zed Duke of Banville Zo Kath Ra Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
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    In Ishar: Legend of the Fortress, party members vote on new additions, expelling existing members, and various other actions, with the player constrained to accept these decisions.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. moleman Savant Patron

    moleman
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    Never played them myself, but I read the Ishar games have that.

    Edit:
    Ninja'd by the Duke
     
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  7. moleman Savant Patron

    moleman
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    Play the originals instead of this Frankenstein abomination.
     
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  8. Shaki Learned

    Shaki
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    Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous :smug:
     
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  9. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
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    seem like future is in generic list of character personality traits, like in darkest dungeon or star traders
     
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  10. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    Good. Having a character flee the dungeon because he has high claustrophobia and failed a check >>>>>>>>>> having a character flee the dungeon because he's a special snowflake hardcoded to act that way at that occasion by the writer cunts.

    Less writers, more systems.
     
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  11. Lurker47 Learned

    Lurker47
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    Most of them?
     
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  12. Serus Arcane

    Serus
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    Agreed on that with mondblut 100%.

    There is some more in JA2, like one character drinking booze if left with one in the same location with a bottle - and changing personality from the sober version to a drunkard. This causes some repercussions, worse stats and different people who like or dislike different versions. There are a few others but all of them pretty minor. Still the likes/dislikes alone make the mercs not feeling like automatons. Also almost everyone has some and the dialogues are imo better than in BG.
     
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  13. jackofshadows Magister

    jackofshadows
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    DA:O has quite a few examples:

    - Sten might challenge MC leadership at some point
    - Leliana cannot forgive destroying the urn and become hostile
    - Morri with her very strong fuck & dump agenda
    - Alistair... nah, he's a hopeless cuck

    All of the above are the strongest examples in addition to the rep system where companions will leave if relatioship value hit the bottom (in practice it didn't work due to retarded gift overabundance but that's another story). Not to mention additional conditions for leaving (Morri right after carrying out to the village) or hostility (Wynn when you meet. She could also discover whethef MC is a blood mage which has been cut from the game, unfortunately).

    Arcanum has both pretty straightforward alighment (join requirement basically, among possible others) and personal reaction system (hit the zero means follower will leave) but there're some additional cases of party members agenda:

    - Two pairs of members cannot stand each other (Raven - Z'an Al'urin, Geoffrey - Perryman)
    - Geoffrey value his worthless gem more than the opportunity to travel with MC at first
    - Torian Kel (and a few others? cannot remember which ones for sure) will take the anatagonist's side, Torian will also pursue his family sword even alone if MC will refuse to attack the Bane of Kree
    - Vollinger will try to assasinate the MC
    - Magnus being a massive snowflake
    - Virgil who will leave party regardless at some point and change aligment according to MC

    Not to mention the cute broadcasting feature by which you can literally say "fuck you" to any of them and their reaction will be forthcoming.

    By the way, many of the reasons above is why I tend to select the party very carefully (which is cool process, actually) or just to play solo and I do not really consider RPGs with mindless slaves as companions as real RPGs.
     
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  14. KörangarTheMighty Educated

    KörangarTheMighty
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    KotOR 1 and 2, though these are scripted events that occur at specific times. I suppose the same could be said of the Baldur's Gate series though with it's overly-capricious primadonna characters leaving at pre-programmed trigger points.
    Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage has a party member that betrays you come late game, another that will leave and certain party members will often argue even if they don't leave. More than this though, it has many that refuse to leave until you fulfill their own personal quests that you agree to.

    As a player though, I have to agree with mondblut and Serus, I hate the Baldur's Gate approach. At least give me an option to persuade or intimidate them into sticking through it, or hell, just let me bribe them.
     
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  15. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Mount and Blade
     
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  16. Dorateen Arcane

    Dorateen
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    Early Gold Box games, NPC hirelings were not under the player's control, and the AI could make hideously bad tactical decisions. But in the Dragonlance series, having a knight in the party allowed the player to command joinables and control them in combat.
     
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  17. Tavernking Don't believe his lies Patron Shitposter Developer

    Tavernking
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    Here's my RPG: party members take their fair share of the loot, and are very picky about how long they want to stay in your party. Some will only stay in your party for a few years, some leave when they reach a certain age, some leave once they've accrued enough personal wealth. You can't take armor/weapons away from party members and they'll equip whatever they want even if this is unoptimal. I think this will annoy many autists that want to max/min everything but their party members don't agree with it.

    I'm curious if this will annoy players too much.
     
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  18. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
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    just add personality trait that will force npc to leave party if pc gets involved in any romance
     
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  19. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    Even when they are dead? :smug:
     
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  20. Cosmic Literate

    Cosmic
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    Dragon Age: Origins has certain events that can trigger character betrayals. Party members will react to most conversations and their opinion of the PC will change accordingly.
     
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  21. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    I always treated all party members as extension of my own whims. Having them leave the party because I’m not hitting al the AI triggers seems silly to me and not fun at all. I’m the one making decisions here. Not the party.
     
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  22. Abu Antar Prestigious Gentleman Tweet, tweet Patron

    Abu Antar
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Demon's Age have people that can leave your party, or rather; they'd turn on you if you did something that they disagreed with.
     
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  23. Unorus Janco Lurker

    Unorus Janco
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    The Expeditions series is doing a great job in this regard.

    Yeah, and Pool of Radiance (spoilers I guess)
    Show Spoiler
    had a nasty surprise for those who met Tyranthraxus with evil aligned hirelings.
     
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  24. V_K Arcane

    V_K
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    In Magic Candle series, hirelings (as opposed to regular party members) won't let you take stuff out of their inventories. You can make the game unwinnable that way if you give them a quest item.
     
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  25. undecaf Arcane Patron

    undecaf
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    I’m probably in a minority in liking how Fallout and Fallout 2 handled party members as being their own individuals (with only cursory behavioral instructions available) to whose probable mistakes and whims you had to adapt to. But that’s certainly two games where party members aren’t mindless slaves.
     
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