Incline RPGs where party members aren't mindless slaves

[Tavernking]

I'm curious if this will annoy players too much.

just add personality trait that will force npc to leave party if pc gets involved in any romance

Why? And what would the trait be called?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm curious if this will annoy players too much.

just add personality trait that will force npc to leave party if pc gets involved in any romance

And what would the trait be called?

inceldom

 

[lukaszek]

I'm curious if this will annoy players too much.

just add personality trait that will force npc to leave party if pc gets involved in any romance

And what would the trait be called?

inceldom

was thinking more in terms of simp

 

[InSight]

Party members who aren't mindless slave is a defining feature of RolePlaying Games, a good/efficient/simple way to summarize it.
Having a party who's members are not mindless slave are what RPG are and why multiplayer(not mindless drone) is required component/part to it.
Otherwise one is playing a tactical games such as chess where each unit is a mindless drone and player has complete control over them.
Thus each instance/moment/act where units portray self-will are to be highlighted for they are a step in the right direction when it comes to evolving/developing/advancing the genre or transfer it from its multiplayer domain into the single-player domain.

adding examples:
Darkest Dungeon
The stress mechanic/rule/feature which makes one's units often act independently of player input/commands.

Temple of Elemental Evil with hired units ,

• 4 of them who shall betray the player's party, 1 by leading them to ambush after agreeing to join after being spared.

• The two brothers with become hostile if the party would attack or disenchant its own units with the elder brother commenting.

Pillers of Eternity

• unlike the rest of the party members on whom one can inquire/ask repeatedly ,Durance would limit his talk leaving some for another day. One cannot read all his none-event dialogue options all at once.

• Grieving Mother would leave/disappear if 2/3 of dialogue options are picked correctly.

Pillers of Eternity 2

• The bird woman would leave if one cause the death of the 2 known houses/families.

A long time ago on these forums there posted a video showcasing old CRPG in which one of them, party members had principles/ethics. When the player tried to steal an item, a party member, the warrior archetype commented against it, disallowed it.
To my estimation the graphics were in range of late 80's to mid 90's type but since Zed Duke of Banville
has not mentioned it, one would have to search it.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

I hate the Baldur's Gate approach. At least give me an option to persuade or intimidate them into sticking through it, or hell, just let me bribe them.

If memory correct, in Baldurs Gate 1, if the player character has sufficient charisma, he can calm them down during the quarrel.

Mount and Blade

can one give examples? Only played Mount and Blade Warband and the memory of the specifics and when such cases happen as with an army trainer NPC leaving, are dim.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Way back in the day I had a neighbor come over and I booted up my c64 Bards Tale. His buddy (not someone I knew tagged along). So We each had 2 characters. Well, the buddy was an absolute schmuk asshat and eventually just challenged my characters to combat in a party attack. W/e. After getting his ass kicked several times and ressed and killed he said he was done and... "left the party." My neigbor left as well. They said they'd play nintendo instead. More like stupid HUMAN NPCs in a way.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

If memory correct, in Baldurs Gate 1, if the player character has sufficient charisma, he can calm them down during the quarrel.

Too bad Charisma is a dump-stat in early Infinity Engine games. I certainly wouldn't spec into it for that reason alone. Can any Paladins confirm this btw?

 

[Poseidon00]

Too bad Charisma is a dump-stat in early Infinity Engine games. I certainly wouldn't spec into it for that reason alone. Can any Paladins confirm this btw?

I think the difference between 17 and 18 actually matters in several cases throughout the series.

 

[Rean]

Bluepilled noobs still haven't witnessed the JRPG bliss wherein party members are always bound to be more interesting than the MC.

 

[thesecret1]

ATOM RPG. Companions frequently chime in and even derail conversations, will attack you if you start killing shit they care about or make decisions they truly hate, open up new dialogue options... It was pretty surprising to see just how much impact they had.

 

[Viata]

In Ishar: Legend of the Fortress, party members vote on new additions, expelling existing members, and various other actions, with the player constrained to accept these decisions.

What happens if they kick you out of the party? Do they finish the game by themselves?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Lol.. that'd be great. Just watch while eating popcorn.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

In Ishar: Legend of the Fortress, party members vote on new additions, expelling existing members, and various other actions, with the player constrained to accept these decisions.

What happens if they kick you out of the party? Do they finish the game by themselves?

In Ishar, the player is the party rather than any single character. Although the party begins with just Aramir, it is possible keep playing and complete the game even if he is killed. The player still decides whether to recruit or dismiss party members, though; it's just that the player's decision can be rejected by the party members (in a way, they're all NPCs).

 

[Nathaniel3W]

seem like future is in generic list of character personality traits, like in darkest dungeon or star traders

Did you play Wildermyth? I don't know the exact count, but there are probably a dozen different personality traits that can be scored from 0-100, and then there are dozens more that cover the character's history, family, and relationships. Then as your party travels around the randomly generated map, they'll get different encounters with different outcomes depending on which characters you have and what their scores are.

It's fun for a while, but it feels like I kept getting the same encounters over and over while the wiki shows dozens of possible encounters that I've never seen. And it's not just because I keep the same characters in the party. You add new characters all the time, and they all end up getting the opportunity to get a gem stuck in their eye, or get turned into the Human Torch, but I don't have a single wolf-man or bear-man.

 

[Nathaniel3W]

Bluepilled noobs still haven't witnessed the JRPG bliss wherein party members are always bound to be more interesting than the MC.

I read something that stuck with me. It was in the intro to one of Neil Gaiman's Sandman comics. The guest who wrote the introduction said that there are two kinds of fantastic fiction: There is the story where the fantastical character enters the mundane world. And there is the story where the mundane character enters the fantastical world.

When presenting a story about a fantastical world, the mundane character serves as the audience's vehicle for learning. It isn't that important for the story for the character to learn; it's important for the audience to learn, and the audience learns by watching the character learn.

Final Fantasy X did this really well, when Tidus went from a technologically advanced world like ours to the magical world where the game takes place. He was an outsider who learned, and as he learned, the audience got to settle into the world of Spira. And although the quest belongs to Yuna, a big part of the plot deals with Tidus learning about his father, and Tidus plays an essential role in how the game ends.

There was another final fantasy that I think didn't handle this quite as well: Final Fantasy XII. Vaan is just a kid along for the ride. Ashe is the main character of the story. Basch and Balthier are more important to the story than Vaan too. In that game, maybe it was necessary for Vaan to start off as an outsider, unacquainted with the political machinations going on in the world, so that the grown-ups can explain the situation to him. But I feel like he never really grew out of that stage.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

I think what you're looking for is called a story. They come in books, and on various video media. In those things, the characters, or "party members" do whatever the writers have decided they will do, rather than doing whatever you decide they should do.

All the examples you gave are of stupid things that 99% of players will just work around.

• Leaving because they disagree with your actions(probably the most common example of this)

So if you want the character in your party, you don't do those actions or mitigate it in some way.

• Leaving because they can't stand being around another party member(baldur's gate)

So if you want the character in your party, you can't have another mutually exclusive character.

• Refusing to go to certain areas(wizardry 8 companions do this and you can actually get around it by kidnapping knocking them out and dragging them there, they even complain about it but strangely don't (afaik) leave)

Sounds annoying, and of course there's a simple workaround.

• Interject during conversations either adding more information or changing the entire outcome

This is nice, adds some extra info and replayability. It's not really an example of party members not being mindless though.

• Refusing to follow orders during combat(wasteland 2)

If you like that, wait until you hear about escort missions!

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Corsairs, or Sea Dogs for us non-slavs. Your officers' loyalty is dependent on their reputation. If they've got a reputation as a criminal, they'll be pissed at you for committing enough piracy and making enough money, while honorable officers will want to work for governors and do official privateer work. Any officer will get a massive loyalty loss if you don't pay them their monthly salary, as will your non-officer generic crewmembers.

If your general crew mutinies, you have to fight them off. If an officer mutinies while in command of a ship, he'll steal that ship and either attack you with it or flee.

In City of Abandoned Ships, Peter Blood can get some loyal neutral reputation companions from his prologue quest. Despite freeing them from slavery and despite them then swearing their lifetime loyalty, due to a bug in the original game, neutral officers constantly lose their loyalty - since they're not honorable or criminals, there's nothing you can do to raise their loyalty, and loyalty gradually falls with the player's inaction. So these fuckers will inevitably mutiny and steal your shit, forsaking their vows and your friendship in favor of their greed. Now that's some bitter Russian storytelling.

 

[Sinatar]

Ishar is particularly stupid at this since there is no way to influence the votes, it's totally arbitrary.

This creates situations where there is an NPC you have to recruit to *finish the game*, but you can't eject anyone to make room since everyone votes no. So this forces you to adjust your formation so the character you need to get rid of is in the front, then to go find an enemy and let them kill them. For a mechanic that is supposed to foster roleplaying and immersion it ends up doing the complete opposite.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

while honorable officers will want to work for governors and do official privateer work.

I did find it annoying that the opinion of the honest types would tank heavily if you boarded attacking ships and killed them all.

 

[Erebus]

Ishar is particularly stupid at this since there is no way to influence the votes, it's totally arbitrary.

This creates situations where there is an NPC you have to recruit to *finish the game*, but you can't eject anyone to make room since everyone votes no. So this forces you to adjust your formation so the character you need to get rid of is in the front, then to go find an enemy and let them kill them. For a mechanic that is supposed to foster roleplaying and immersion it ends up doing the complete opposite.

If a majority of party members disagree with your decision to expel a character, you can still get rid of him by murdering his ass.

You have to pick a party member to be the assassin. The attempt automatically works, but is risky : it's possible that a party member who really liked the victim will decide to avenge him and kill the assassin.

The best way to avoid that is... to pick the character who likes your target the most as the assassin, something that is completely possible.

The whole system, while creative, isn't exactly the greatest idea ever.

 

[octavius]

The whole system, while creative, isn't exactly the greatest idea ever.

It takes just one mondblut to break it.

 

[mondblut]

If a majority of party members disagree with your decision to expel a character, you can still get rid of him by murdering his ass.

You have to pick a party member to be the assassin. The attempt automatically works, but is risky : it's possible that a party member who really liked the victim will decide to avenge him and kill the assassin.

The best way to avoid that is... to pick the character who likes your target the most as the assassin, something that is completely possible.

The whole system, while creative, isn't exactly the greatest idea ever.

Or you can put him in front and let enemies do the job the old-fashioned way.

(ok, I don't remember if the first Ishar had configurable party formation, maybe only 2 and 3 did... still, nothing that cannot be done)

 

[mondblut]

For a mechanic that is supposed to foster roleplaying and immersion it ends up doing the complete opposite.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Temple of Elemental Evil without circle of 8 mod has recruitable companion stealing loot from player.

 

[The_Mask]

The Expeditions series is doing a great job in this regard.

Sorry for stealing this a bit, but I need to expand:

You may be conditioned to think that only temporary/ scripted/ story-added companions or temporary additions are subjected to this, and you couldn't be further from the truth. If you don't "build" your expedition around people of similar mindset, things can get very ugly, with people leaving being the best case scenario. This being the bulk of the game, of course. But then...

Conquistadors also does something which is really cool as far as the oh-so dreaded romances go. It allows you to take a wife, but then tests you and your morals. Would you cheat on her just because she's a woman from another continent or a so-called savage? Would you keep it in your pants? And there's consequences for every single decision in this regard...

Spoiler

If you choose not to be a cheater, your new wife will most likely have a ton of morale all the time, becoming a VERY strong asset as far as the non-combat aspects of the game go.

If you do, you'll get two terrible women you'll have to endure.

OR you can also refuse the marriage, and the opportunities that go along with it, and just end up with the "temptress" in the end.

I've always said that I'm not sure about the other Expeditions games, but Conquistadors is severely underrated.

 

[wahrk]

I don’t remember if this is in vanilla or if it was added back in the Restored Content Mod but in KotOR 2 certain companions can attack a rival companion on Malachor and try to kill them depending on influence levels.