RTS modified into a unique RPG

[Tavernking]

It's uncanny how many RTSs could be made into an intriguing real-time RPG with a few modifications.

I will use Age of Empires 2 as my example here. Set up a 1v1 AI match, the player controls just 6 party members that start out as grunts for one of the teams. The AI sends villagers to chop down trees, mine gold, build farms etc and gives to the players quests to patrol wherever it thinks extra protection is needed. 'Go protect this mine' 'Go and look for the enemy base on the other side of the map'. The player can wander off and explore on their own too, defeating wolves and bears etc, leveling up and scoring some new gear.

As both AI build their bases and armies the AI will start suggesting your party go raid enemy outposts, or join it's own units in attacking the enemy. You're considered elite troops now after all the gear and levelling up. The player could also communicate to the AI where and when to attack the enemy team as well.

Most AOE2 games only last 30 minutes or so, but you could expand the game by having more factions and a much bigger map. The biggest map supported in AOE2 is never even played and is called 'Ludicrious' map size because it takes 20 minutes to get from one end to the other. The player could journey the world as mercenaries, helping factions here and there.

I think the most exciting part of this concept is playing an RPG in an actual living dynamic world. Every villager you walk past ACTUALLY has a job to do. Most RPGs these days give their NPCs daily schedules BUT THIS MEANS NOTHING if they're contributing nothing to the economy. You have to 'pretend' in your head that they're actually being useful. In Skyrim you see the same people working at the mill and chopping wood day after day - never actually consuming natural resources and never actually contributing economically. They'll do it for an eternity.

Also, in this RTS-RPG factions won't attack other factions when some narrative designers thought it was a good idea - it's a dynamic narrative without a storyteller - a faction goes on the offensive and launches invasions when it feels it has the military strength to pull it off just like in any RTS.

Let me know if I'm going crazy or not.

 

[Saravan]

Specifically AoE2 would have been an awesome base to rebuild into a proper RPG. Can't get enough of AoE2's fantastic aesthetics, somehow they managed to make it even better in definitive edition.

 

[Fowyr]

Someone invented Allods?

I remember interesting mod for HoM&M3 where you started as swordsman unit that gradually could be upgraded to crusader, assemble a party and learn several non-combat spells.

 

[Fowyr]

Most interesting part of you idea is non-direct control of your faction assets. Somewhat reminds me about Stronghold (1993) and Fantasy Empires that had system of heroes that could be sent on quests to level up and get new items. Only in reverse. You are the hero and player is AI.

 

[AdolfSatan]

Not an RTS, but in Dwarf Fortress you can do the whole adventurer-in-a-living-world thing.

Exanima promises to do similarly once it morphs into Sui Generis but it's gonna be ready by 2087 at its earliest.

But sure, it'd be nice to get more of this.

 

[JarlFrank]

Dawn of War 2's campaign is basically an RPG. No basebuilding, no unit recruiting, just a group of heroes going on missions. It's not really dynamic though, the missions are standard scripted RTS mission fare except you're locked to your gang of heroes.

I think most of Soldak's games fit the bill. They're Diablo clones, except that the world around the player runs like an RTS with different factions going after their own goals.



In Drox Operative, you play as a ship captain doing missions for various factions, combat is Diablo in space, you kill shit and get loot, standard stuff.

Meanwhile the AI is playing a 4X game.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

ever heard of this game called baldur's gate?

 

[JarlFrank]

ever heard of this game called baldur's gate?

Tell me you didn't read the OP without telling me you didn't read the OP.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

ever heard of this game called baldur's gate?

Tell me you didn't read the OP without telling me you didn't read the OP.

it's literally an RTS modified into an RPG

 

[Bigg Boss]

Play Supreme Commander Forged Alliance through the FAF Client.

 

[Tavernking]

Specifically AoE2 would have been an awesome base to rebuild into a proper RPG. Can't get enough of AoE2's fantastic aesthetics, somehow they managed to make it even better in definitive edition.

Looks like they actually put in effort huh.

(Both a ~15 year gap)

 

[rusty_shackleford]

gosh you can't expect beamdog to re-render the assets or recreate lost assets, it's not like they were remastering the games or something!!!

worst part of the EE is that there won't be another chance at a real remaster for 20+ years now

 

[tritosine2k]

I think the most exciting part of this concept is playing an RPG in an actual living dynamic world.

All cool and dandy until you want to add passage of time, "simple" overcast weather or seasons, iso games used to get away with "drop shadows" .

 

[JarlFrank]

ever heard of this game called baldur's gate?

Tell me you didn't read the OP without telling me you didn't read the OP.

it's literally an RTS modified into an RPG

Quoting the relevant part of the OP:

The player could journey the world as mercenaries, helping factions here and there.

I think the most exciting part of this concept is playing an RPG in an actual living dynamic world. Every villager you walk past ACTUALLY has a job to do.

Does Baldur's Gate have RTS-like factions warring against each other and collecting resources on the map while the player is out adventuring?
Didn't think so.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

ever heard of this game called baldur's gate?

Tell me you didn't read the OP without telling me you didn't read the OP.

it's literally an RTS modified into an RPG

Quoting the relevant part of the OP:

The player could journey the world as mercenaries, helping factions here and there.

I think the most exciting part of this concept is playing an RPG in an actual living dynamic world. Every villager you walk past ACTUALLY has a job to do.

Does Baldur's Gate have RTS-like factions warring against each other and collecting resources on the map while the player is out adventuring?
Didn't think so.

yea but it's literally an RTS modified into an RPG. Caused untold amounts of damage to the RPG genre for years to come, wouldn't recommend repeating it tbh.

what he wants already exists in games like mountain blade and kenshi. I find them to be extremely boring.

 

[Serus]

Rusty has a point, surprisingly enough. If a game or two like that is made and somehow becomes popular it could lead to some bad changes to rpgs being made. I don't wan't to relieve the post BG1/2 era with RTwP rpgs being again the thing to copy by almost everyone (and their dogs). With added RTwP strategy twist this time. I much prefer current era when even BG sort-of-clones or BG sequels are TB or have TB as option. And every indie dev (and his dog!) makes TB.
But feel free to make/play/imagine some obscure indies (or AAA failures).

 

[Infinitron]

rusty is just being clever, but for the record Baldur's Gate was based on an early tech demo for an RTS. I doubt it got far enough to have basebuilding factions with working AI.

 

[bionicman]

OP you could try to make a map mode like this in Warcraft 3 (or any of its clones) since these RTS's already have heroes that level up their abilities and attributes and have inventories.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

OP you could try to make a map mode like this in Warcraft 3 (or any of its clones) since these RTS's already have heroes that level up their abilities and attributes and have inventories.

The hero abilities and the inventories are so basic though, and there's not much room for good encounter design. And the camera sucks.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Something like that had already been done in Pirates back in 2006, I'm not sure if it was like that in the original game. The AI runs various European nations which are constantly waging wars on each other. Supply ships bring gold to ports which makes them grow (and be able to filed more soldiers when defending), the cities produce warships which can capture cities independent from the player. I'm not sure what else was happening in the background since I've played the game over a decade ago. I don't think this idea was developed further in other games since video games are all about carefully crafted experience now.

 

[KateMicucci]

Rusty has a point, surprisingly enough. If a game or two like that is made and somehow becomes popular it could lead to some bad changes to rpgs being made. I don't wan't to relieve the post BG1/2 era with RTwP rpgs being again the thing to copy by almost everyone (and their dogs). With added RTwP strategy twist this time. I much prefer current era when even BG sort-of-clones or BG sequels are TB or have TB as option. And every indie dev (and his dog!) makes TB.
But feel free to make/play/imagine some obscure indies (or AAA failures).

RTWP is fine except for the WP

 

[KateMicucci]

I think the most exciting part of this concept is playing an RPG in an actual living dynamic world. Every villager you walk past ACTUALLY has a job to do. Most RPGs these days give their NPCs daily schedules BUT THIS MEANS NOTHING if they're contributing nothing to the economy. You have to 'pretend' in your head that they're actually being useful. In Skyrim you see the same people working at the mill and chopping wood day after day - never actually consuming natural resources and never actually contributing economically. They'll do it for an eternity.

How does villagers "contributing to the economy" in real time make the game better? I can think of several ways it might make the game worse. I don't see where you're going with this at all. Is there going to be a pile of wood that just gets bigger and bigger?

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I think the most exciting part of this concept is playing an RPG in an actual living dynamic world. Every villager you walk past ACTUALLY has a job to do. Most RPGs these days give their NPCs daily schedules BUT THIS MEANS NOTHING if they're contributing nothing to the economy. You have to 'pretend' in your head that they're actually being useful. In Skyrim you see the same people working at the mill and chopping wood day after day - never actually consuming natural resources and never actually contributing economically. They'll do it for an eternity.

How does villagers "contributing to the economy" in real time make the game better? I can think of several ways it might make the game worse. I don't see where you're going with this at all. Is there going to be a pile of wood that just gets bigger and bigger?

It's all about feeling that ones decisions have real consequences for the gameword, that they are something more than a generic "thank you adventurers for help"

 

[KateMicucci]

It's all about feeling that ones decisions have real consequences for the gameword, that they are something more than a generic "thank you adventurers for help"

What consequences? What do you mean? How is the wood pile increasing going to affect the game world?

 

[tritosine2k]

It's all about feeling that ones decisions have real consequences for the gameword, that they are something more than a generic "thank you adventurers for help"

What consequences? What do you mean? How is the wood pile increasing going to affect the game world?

Maybe some faction system would work.
The premise of topic is some low hanging existing fruit with RTS hybrids. Yet not only RTS are stuck in deepest rut, such hybrids have track record: never see the light of day.

Seems so far fetched I'm just reminded instead how Path of exile positioned itself as certain spiritual successor and melted down.