Stopped reading there;
developers should play Nethergate to see that both ancient Romans and Celts did not lived according to (post) Christian guilt based but rather honor/shame culture. So your warrior band should strife to gain prestige among their family/clan/tribe and honor and loot on battlefield instead of feeling emotions introduced fully by XVIc puritans. As to hair color in fistst century AD there were no Irish Gaels in Alba/Caledonia/Scotland and some ancient authors claim the Picts were dark haired same as Spain descending Silurians were while other claim them to be gingers. Roman/Greek authors often chosen licencia poetica to make their barbarians more awesome and there were so many invasion waves since then that you can't say for sure which one was closer to truth.
Game has some potential but it can turn out to be some SJW white guilt based shit too so will wait to back it up.
I come in peace My job with this post here is not to change someone's worldview or say mine is better, just to explain what the game is and what it isn't, so you can make an educated decision, weather to support in on Kickstarter or not.
You mention
licencia poetica used by Roman writers. Sacred Fire is developed by
poetic studio. We chose that name to position ourselves, that this is how Sacred Fire is to be taken: we do not try to describe historic facts, we aspire to evoke an image, convey a feeling, explore a theme in new ways.
I did play Jeff's Nethergate, admittedly for a very short time, as the graphics were a brutal onslaught on my hi-res sensitivities AND renown and respect is all over the Kickstarter pitch for Sacred Fire. By the way, I enjoyed Valhalla Rising. The ending is beautiful to me, when he chooses to die to make the boy survive. It's open to many interpretations and it would derail this thread so much more. Just saying that I find beauty also in the human condition, not only in culture. So of course I get, they lived in a honor culture and it's represented in Sacred Fire. Search the pitch page: renown is mentioned 3x, respect 1x, guilt 1x. Renown is implemented in the game rules, the story, the user interface in Sacred Fire. Please watch the developer's commentary. Every time you do something cool, there is a floating number saying +1 renown / +1 respect. Renown is for doing something noteworthy and respect if for being dangerous, cunning, though, unyielding, direct.
To address the Social Justice Warrior white guilt shit: just to confirm we mean the same thing:
"a SJW does not necessarily strongly believe all that they say, or even care about the groups they are fighting on behalf of." How is that applicable to me? I have spent years creating a ruleset that I strongly believe in. I presented it in no unclear terms. I am not changing my beliefs or writing principles just because, someone says:
There is nothing universal. Some African tribes dont understand concept of time (it is always "today" for them), others cant count (because why bother). There are still a lot of marginal... how to put it best... collective states of mind, probably. Belief that there is something universal is a quasi-monotheist belief. Of course, monotheists 100% sure they got it right (this was motivation for this, for example
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations). But... Even if we entertain the notion that some proto-monotheist ethics could indeed be there at that time, at least give option to be genuine pagan and dismiss all these considerations (guilt, goodness, envy) as not worth attention, and allow to promote such virtues as physical strength, power, wealth as self-sufficient. If were able to turn Etain away from murder path, I dont see reason why we cant convince Clair that altruism is dumb.
yet stating just moments before
I wasn't talking just about saving as Christian ethics, but if you actually read KS pitch, there is fight against Christian sins, presented as core part of gameplay and storytelling. Pagans did "good", "evil" and "ying-yang" things alike. They just "did things", to quote Joker. As it looks from presentation at the moment, there are only two paths - humanist and violent anti-authoritarian. But I'd rather be violent authoritarian in this setting, loot, rape and pillage. Not because I'm maniac, but because practically no games do that angle, and Pagan setting is perfect for that. But still, we're offered choice between communism and liberalism even here.
So there are concerns about a game system, that operates under the assumption that self-control is good, and jumping to conclusions that this will lead to crimes on innocent children, because I used the word universal. Yet the proposed alternative is to make a game promoting rape, and power as a virtue. As if a world where the strong just 'do things', because they can, is so much safer for children. The safety of real children is not the concern, painting someone's game into the 'christian sin' corner is.
If I was getting paid to write and promote beliefs of someone else, to further their influence or gain, than by all means throw all the bricks you can and I will join you. But this is a personal project and I have proven by spending all my life savings and applying all my talent, that I write what I truly believe in. Of course you can disagree and be not interested, but I think some of you will give me the benefit of doubt that I have something original, authentic to say.
I still think, emotions are universal, across various times and cultures, but let's stay in Caledonia 2nd century AD. Emotions are inborn, not learned. They are present in animals. They have nothing to do with an ideology. Talking about cultures having no sense of time, no concept of numbers. That's apples and oranges. Sense of time has to be learned. Concept of numbers has to be learned. But, you do not need to teach a baby to be afraid, just separate it from its mother, the emotion that is already there will come forward. You do not need to teach it to be angry, just take away something it wants, the emotion is already there. Shower another baby with attention and Envy will come forward.
I invite you all to
read the Kickstarter page for yourselves and making up your minds about it.
Me going poetic and saying 'but walls do not bring peace' rubs you the wrong way? Thank you for telling me about it. But if it's not too much trouble, help me understand, how that suggests that the characters like Etain or Morrigan are not honor driven. Nial is not honor driven, and it makes for variety: he is ruthless in this sense and doesn't care for shame if it gets the job done. The villain Uther's description states he is cunning. As a respectable quality. The Roman leader Flavius is convinced the world should be governed by glory. He is not painted like a maniac and if you see him just as a murderous arrogant prick, the game will let you experience that it's your loss, if you do not try to understand your enemy.
Marcus is a Roman turned Christian living north from the wall. This is the biggest stretch of imagination in my fiction. But then people more versed in Caledonian history than me agree
indeed there is evidence of trade and other cultural exchanges between the Roman front line and the inhabitants of what is now Scotland.
So Marcus makes the exploration of the 3 worlds (pagan, roman, christian) possible and that's what I mean when I say Sacred Fire explores contemporary western themes, as here we are debating them.
So Marcus, on the contrary to the Roman leader, would say, the world should be governed by mercy. And you can kill him / let him die. And most of the 10 NPCs. But you can not, and never will be able to convince Clair, to change what she is doing
(see suggestion above to let us convince Clair altruism is dumb). Because her life's mission is to prove, that you do not have to sacrifice others to win. That she is strong enough to be able to afford to help others. And it has nothing to do with her thinking being altruistic is 'better', but everything to do with her psychology and trauma and backstory. And it's not to say that she doesn't enjoy being altruistic. You can however help Etain remember and restore a state of being where she felt things and was happy. And it doesn't mean she will stops being effective at killing. The game just comments on, that there is a cost for simple solution to complex questions, like answering violence with violence.
My gut feeling is that the trigger word for you guys going, "oh no Christian propaganda rewriting our history" is,
Guilt. You say a better word is
Shame.
Say, a historical authentic Caledonian (so a cunning, iron-age, artistic, crannog building pagan) has a trauma for not being able to protect his child, when it needed him. What does he feel? Is it Shame? For me it suggest he is ashamed for not meeting a cultural norm, he draws self-worth from. That's why I say he feels guilt. Because he doesn't care what the tribal norm says, he feels bad on an instinctive/parental/protective level, and he can not forgive himself for making a mistake. And that's what I mean with guilt. How is that a feeling introduced by puritans in the 16th century? In this context Wid might feel guilt in the developers commentary video, when he leads the group into danger, and his mission objective to protect the child leads Clair into mortal danger. He feels he made a mistake. And can not forgive himself, because he is the older brother who always protects others. And it rubs him the wrong way that a stranger saved Clair and she admires him.
So Sacred Fire is a historic fiction inspired by 2nd century Caledonia, shortly after the wall was build. There are Pagan, Roman and Christian characters and PARTS of those worldviews are explored and you are left to do a reflection of what fits your mindset. And the PARTS is the key word. I do not promote rape or inconsequential violence.
The important thing to say, is the character you play, is not a blank slate, not at all. As the pitch suggests, Wid is you brother. No other family alive, parents died too early, you have some scars there - on a emotional/instinctive/psychological level. The pitch says:
you have seen enough of war for a lifetime. There has been three generations, paying a heavy price, for surviving the Roman superior numbers. It left a mark on the culture that once was. There can still be people who remember what peace looked like. So your character has personal psychological reasons,
why he/she is an outlier/free-thinker in the honor culture. Why you don't buy the die-honorably-on-the-battlefield cool-aide, or what else is there than to make our name live forever. Why you want to search for something else. So when you are exposed to Rome, Pagan and Christian worldviews, your character is open to explore parts of them, that I the writer feel inspired to write about. You as a reader might be not interested in those parts and prefer others, and that's fine. My job is to explain what parts are in, and which ones are out. And that's the intent of this post.
Thank you for reading this. See the GAME and decide for yourself whether it brings something new to the table.