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SaGa Series Discussion

Thorakitai

Learned
Joined
Feb 26, 2020
Messages
259
How the fuck did the Saga series managed to get blessed with luck in the recent years despite Square Enix's rivaling Capcom in terms of neglecting most of it's franchises in favor of it's cashcows like Final Fantasy?
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
How the fuck did the Saga series managed to get blessed with luck in the recent years despite Square Enix's rivaling Capcom in terms of neglecting most of it's franchises in favor of it's cashcows like Final Fantasy?

A combination of

- Kitase and his crownies being occupied with FFVII remake
- His general failures over the last 15 years pumping and wasting all the money into projects with troubled development.
- A surprising amount of SAGA staffers still being around
- In general a big lobby inside Square Enix that supports these games. Only made stronger by the success of FFXIV.
 

Mexi

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
6,811
Blue's ending isn't bugged or unfinished.

https://lparchive.org/SaGa-Frontier/chapter16.html

The Essense of SaGa Frontier, the giant moon language book I've referred to a few times, gives some insight to this situation. It states that Rouge received the gift for Space Magic, though he somehow got it without killing Kylin. It also states that Rouge is the true victor of the duel between the "brothers." Based on this, and also how Rouge will join pretty much any team looking for magic, whereas Blue yells at people if he dislikes their name, we can speculate that Rouge is actually the good side of the personality, making Blue the evil twin (minus a goatee). When Rouge returns to the Magic Kingdom to find it wrecked, he heads into hell alone, forcing his friends to stay behind for their safety. It turns out that long ago the Magic Kingdom sealed away the demons, but knew the seal would someday break. Thus the plan to make a wizard who could control all spells was conceived. Blue/Rouge was that plan, and it was a success. However, could Rouge could actually beat Hell's Lord? Apparently the remaining wizards of the Magic Kingdom weren't interested in taking any chances. When Hell's Lord was busy fighting Rouge, the wizards sealed away Hell, freezing it in time. Hence the sudden end to the battle. Essence goes on to state that Rouge eventually breaks free of the seal, led by the cries of his friends..
The underlined part was what I was referring to. The ending really doesn't give any of that.
Your PlayStation just freezes up.
I've read somewhere that they were supposed to add that part from Essence but never had time to do it. It is a sad ending, though.
 

Derringer

Prophet
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
1,934
I've read somewhere that they were supposed to add that part from Essence but never had time to do it. It is a sad ending, though.
The 'cries from friends' sounds like dumb shit added onto it to sell supplement story books, like the blitzball bomb Teedus head shit from FF X 2.5 and Shinra coming from FF X-2's planet from a space ship, it just sounds fucking retarded.
 

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
11,378
Location
Flowery Land
How the fuck did the Saga series managed to get blessed with luck in the recent years despite Square Enix's rivaling Capcom in terms of neglecting most of it's franchises in favor of it's cashcows like Final Fantasy?

A combination of

- Kitase and his crownies being occupied with FFVII remake
- His general failures over the last 15 years pumping and wasting all the money into projects with troubled development.
- A surprising amount of SAGA staffers still being around
- In general a big lobby inside Square Enix that supports these games. Only made stronger by the success of FFXIV.

I'd think Trials of Mana's wild success for a modest budget (and normal dev cycle) also had to help sell the idea of faithful remake of good games relatively few people have played.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
I've read somewhere that they were supposed to add that part from Essence but never had time to do it. It is a sad ending, though.
The 'cries from friends' sounds like dumb shit added onto it to sell supplement story books, like the blitzball bomb Teedus head shit from FF X 2.5 and Shinra coming from FF X-2's planet from a space ship, it just sounds fucking retarded.

You are on the JRPG forum. That's like 60+% of them at some point. Including a main aspect of Nu-Persona's.
 
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Lincolnberry

Educated
Joined
Dec 2, 2019
Messages
87
How the fuck did the Saga series managed to get blessed with luck in the recent years despite Square Enix's rivaling Capcom in terms of neglecting most of it's franchises in favor of it's cashcows like Final Fantasy?

A combination of

- Kitase and his crownies being occupied with FFVII remake
- His general failures over the last 15 years pumping and wasting all the money into projects with troubled development.
- A surprising amount of SAGA staffers still being around
- In general a big lobby inside Square Enix that supports these games. Only made stronger by the success of FFXIV.

I'd think Trials of Mana's wild success for a modest budget (and normal dev cycle) also had to help sell the idea of faithful remake of good games relatively few people have played.


Trials did well? That's encouraging to hear. Never played the original but really enjoyed the remake - didn't waste my time and thought it was a very solid package for what I got. I hope they do more remakes in that vein, especially since it seems like they have a trove of IP they could potentially scour for material.
 

CryptRat

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
3,559
This explains the freedom of the series, and also how Unlimited SaGa has one of the best video game adaptation of the non-combat part of P&P.
 
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CryptRat

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
3,559
I'd play a lot of things as long as I can create my party at the beginning of the game, so I recently completed the fan game SaGa 4. Don't get fooled by the location, it's not made with RPG Maker, in case you think it's important. I think it took me something like 25 hours.

hC21eTu.png

It's meant to be inspired by the first SaGa games (Final Fantasy Legends I & II). I'm not an expert of these games at all, I wanted to play SaGa 1 (Final Fantasy Legends) a little bit but the Field Of View is boring on a big screen so I won't play more than the tiny bit I've played. Therefore I don't know what is taken from which game and what freedom the dev took. SaGa 4 seems to be an improvement over SaGa1 from the little I've played but what I've played is not significant enough to be sure.

Yet, I think the game was fun so here is a brief review.



The story is the chase of some big bad dude, with some recurring characters. It's serviceable, nothing to say about it.



You travel from one medium size world to another, each with several towns and dungeons.

The exploration of a world is midly linear with some things you have to do in some order. Worlds also contain totally optional caves.
In my opinion the world settings and layout are good enough and solving each world is fun, nothing amazing but listening to what people say can help at times, sometimes you require a key item, ...

Towns are banal, small with a couple of shops, not all with all the same items, with people having some things to say about their town and its relationship with the rest of the world.

Dungeons are so-so, or to be more precise for a big part of the game I thought they were boring. It's visible the dev spent some time fleshing out the world, the settings, the towns, the dungeon layouts, but with most dungeons in the first half of the game finally having no gameplay gimmick at all it often falls flat.
However most dungeons from the last two worlds have one gimmick, which makes them more of the nothing to talk about kind. If the dungeons from the entire world were as good then they would be unoffensive, as is I still think the dungeons from the first half of the game are kind of bad, overall.
You find treasures in dungeons, and given weapons have durability and you're rarely at a point where you've got all available armor parts you will use what you find even when it's not better than what's available in shops, you will occasionally find things you can't buy and you also find gems that can be traded for strong items at the end of the game, so nothing awesome but treasures are mostly worth looking for.



You create 4 characters among 4 types (humans, mutants, monsters and robots) at the beginning of the game. And yes, it sucks that it's the same number, I would have preferred to create 5 instead.
You are also often temporarily joined by a 5th party member.

Humans can use a full equipment and their stats are permanently increased only by consuming specific items.

Mutants use half the equipment slots and the second half is made of skills and passives they get when the party wins battles.
They level up when defeating monsters, and when they do you can choose between two upgrades, which can be a stat rise, a skill or a passive. If the skill or passive would replace an old one you know the one which would get replaced when choosing between the two upgrades.

Robots use a full equipment and they can wear anything in any slot, multiple armors, multiple weapons, etcetera. Their equipment determines their stats.
Equipping a weapon permanently removes half of his charges but their weapons are reloaded when resting in an inn, while they normally don't.

Monsters transform unto another monster when they're allowed to eat an enemy after a fight.
You know which monster you'll transform to before eating.
There abilities are replenished when resting but they're also fully replenished, and also changed entirely, obviously, when eating an enemy.

I don't think there's any need to say these 4 completely different types is on the biggest appeal of the game, it's one of the biggest appeal of the series to begin with.



All weapons have charges.
Managing your money is a big and cool part of the game, buying weapons and consumables you would be lacking of while spending the remaining golds on armor parts and stat upgrade items for your human(s).
You gather elemental gems all around the game that you can trade during late parts of the game for very strong items you'll have to choose from a large variety of items, that's very cool.

Key items can take an important room of your inventory and you want to drop those eventually, I think you can when you think you can (especially because it should be possible to get an item again if you were wrong) but don't quote me on that.



Customizing and preparing your party for what's coming next is fun.
During long travels, against trash mobs, you typically want group targetting instant death effects, while against bosses you want appropriate resistances and immunites and drain or big damage effects against one enemy.

There's no level scaling, as far as I'm aware.
The travel between one world to the next and the first fights when you just reach a new world can be tough, while the last fights before leaving are a joke.
Rise in power is certainly more satisfying than in SaGa Frontier. I'm not saying it's a better game, let's not exaggerate, but that part is.
Boss fights can get tough as you advance if you're not prepared well enough, and for example as far as I'm concerned I got punished for not raising the mana of my mutant enough, making some parts much harder than they could have been because his mass healing effects were weak.
Note that I never fled from battles, so I got much gold, if you intend to flee from random encounters then I think you'd better have an appropriate party. Typically at least two monsters, which don't require any gold.
Combat against trash mobs certainly gets better and better, eventually you need to be very aggressive and kill them before they kill you, it's cool.
In the end I think that experience may vary but my experience was that, after the very beginning there was a point when I feared the game would be get eventually too easy but it did not. Difficulty was fine, overall, the game did provide some challenge, a very good point for the game.



I think the game is solid, granted you really like the character customization mechanisms of SaGa games.
The dungeon design could be worse but it does not shine either, and there's no freedom of any kind regarding narrative. I also think it's unequal overall, combat tends to get better and better, which means it's a bit mediocre in some early parts, and the same can be said about the dungeons.
However customizing and managing your own party made of these different types of characters is very cool, and the provided challenge makes your management relevant enough, and that's why you could want to play the game.
 

0sacred

poop retainer
Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2021
Messages
1,412
Location
MFGA (Make Fantasy Great Again)
Codex Year of the Donut
So I'm trying to enjoy Scarlet Grace, dialogue is pretty hilarious so it shouldn't be that hard. Problem is combat seems like a clusterfuck and I'm not sure what triggers a United Attack.
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
So I'm trying to enjoy Scarlet Grace, dialogue is pretty hilarious so it shouldn't be that hard. Problem is combat seems like a clusterfuck and I'm not sure what triggers a United Attack.
Look at the turn order at the bottom of the screen. When someone dies, if it causes at least 1 person from the same team on both sides of the deceased to connect together, a united attack occurs.

Ex:
A = You
B = Enemy

A A 'B' A A A B B B

You kill the B on the far right:

A A 'B' A A A B B

Nothing happens because the end guy died and none of the units 'slammed' together. Now you kill 'B' leaving us with:

A A A A A B B
2 A's on the left connect with 3 A's on the right giving you a full party Unite Attack.

Be careful enemies can perform Unite Attacks as well, and they hit just as hard as you do with them. In other words, they're often OHKO's on your units and can cause a domino effect of multiple UA's in a single turn.
 

Matador

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
1,642
Codex+ Now Streaming!
After playing RS3 last year. I have started a RS2 walkthrough, and so far I'm enjoying it even more.

It's a little harder to get started because even less things showing ingame, but I'm using this excel and have been a great help.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c2Q6-k4HodGskLaa4Byg0mnBqF_xwDCVg6U29QureCs/edit#gid=0

I also tried a bit Minstrel Song and was impressed and overwhelmed by all the mechanics presented in the first town. Will try it later, for sure.
 

Matador

Arcane
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Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
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Codex+ Now Streaming!
One thing I'm noticing is that if you give your party some weapon variety, you don't need to go full meta powergaming to get skills.

Maybe if you are interested in one in particular you can go for it, but it doesn't seem necessary, because I'm sparking some useful skills from time to time in several weapons.

I like it the element of randomness coming from a general sound strategy of having variety on my party.

Maybe I'm wrong and later in the game I need to minmax like a crazy person.
 

Ventidius

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
552
I have been playing a lot of Scarlet Grace lately. I started with the Urpina campaign and recently beat the Savnok encounter after Castle Knym. I gotta say, this is definitely one of the best RPGs I have played in recent times so far. Tough as nails too, probably harder than most RPGs, Western or Japanese, that aren't Wizardry-style crawlers. And it is challenging in a good way too, as there have been very few, if any, enemies that are straight up immune to everything: they all have some weakness that you have fun figuring out.

I love how well designed the companions are as well, both in terms of gameplay and story/aesthetics. I'm not usually a fan of pre-gen companions in RPGs, but if all games did it as well as SG, I'd probably have a much higher opinion of that approach, as this game gets the basic point right: make them not suck. So many companions are strong in this game that I legitimately have a hard time allocating party real estate: Elysed is amazing, Lewis is badass, can't decide between Tissisaaq and Kahn because they are both ass-kickers with spears, Jamto and Mondo have managed to stay relevant all the way up to this point, etc. Urpina is also a great character BTW, both in gameplay and story terms. She may be a bit of a naive bimbo, but she has class, charm, a heart of gold, and absolutely savage dual-wielding skills.:obviously:

The best part is that, as powerful as the companions are, the game has managed to stay challenging through it all. One of the very rare RPGs that manages to make the player feel empowered while staying difficult.

The game has no dungeons to speak of, but I like the exploration nonetheless. It kind of reminds me of Majora's Mask, in that it manages to make exploration based on quests, NPCs, and open maps actually feel interesting and interactive, a design goal that most Western RPGs fail to achieve despite pursuing it more aggressively. Part of this comes from how cool the rewards for exploring are, stuff like learning dual-wielding and powerful companions. A related point is the fact that progression in this game is exquisite, as upgrades are varied, meaningful, well-timed, and, thanks to the high difficulty, very welcome.

Perhaps I would have still preferred dungeons, but one can only speculate on whether that would enhance the game, as it is already pretty much masterful as a combat-centric game with a very creative approach to exploration as a strong support element. The atmosphere is great too: it has a very unique, very charming, PnP-like, and even slightly wargamey/military history-ish vibe to it that I find rather enticing.

The combat system is, in many ways, the star of the show. Prestigious phase-based system with an emphasis on managing AP and gaming the initiative order (especially in the way it rewards United Attacks). It feels rather gamey, in a way, but it's a good way, as the system is elegant, creative, and intuitive. Not to mention fun. The game is rather abstract in general, but also gives me, in a strange way, some strong wargaming vibes. This is in part due to in the way that it handles retinue and formation management, and in part due to the various weapon choices on offer. The aesthetics also help in this regard, and BTW the game looks just gorgeous. Probably the best-looking of the high-abstraction games out there along with Stranger of Sword City.

I hope they can keep this level of quality and challenge in the other campaigns. That said, I'd recommend it on the basis of what I have played of the Urpina campaign alone.
 
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NerevarineKing

Learned
Joined
Jan 6, 2021
Messages
315
Like most of Square Enix's ports of older games, SaGa Frontier does not look very good visually. The UI and font feels so unfitting and the sprites are too smoothed out. I'm still interested in checking it out since I really liked the PS1 version and it was notoriously unfinished (FF8 was being developed at the same time IIRC). We'll see how Fuse and the added scenes to the other scenarios turns out and it having things like the ability to run from battles should make things smoother.
 

Derringer

Prophet
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
1,934
Like most of Square Enix's ports of older games, SaGa Frontier does not look very good visually. The UI and font feels so unfitting and the sprites are too smoothed out. I'm still interested in checking it out since I really liked the PS1 version and it was notoriously unfinished (FF8 was being developed at the same time IIRC). We'll see how Fuse and the added scenes to the other scenarios turns out and it having things like the ability to run from battles should make things smoother.
They definitely didn't put effort into re-rendering it unlike say Legend of Mana.
 

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