SaGa Series Discussion

[Matador]

Minstrel Song is a great game. Never got to the point of dominating the systems, and got a bit lost in some quests, but is one of the best JRPGs I have played

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Ages ago I won Review of the Month on Gamefaqs. The prize was a $25 gift card to Electronics Boutique, just enough to buy Minstrel Song for the PS2 as it was heading for the bargain bin.

I wasn't impressed with Frontier 2 or Unlimited so I wasn't sure what to expect out of this but boy was I ever happy. Best game in the whole series.

Happy to buy it for another $25. My PS2 broke down long ago and I haven't bothered replacing it since emulation is good enough, but I want to play this on a big screen in 16:9 with surround sound. Maybe I'll finally attempt the Jewel Beast quest for real.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

For those wondering--

Albert is the most directly involved with the main plot and a lot of involvement in later quests. However because his intro is so long it's easy to miss other early game quests with him, esp. Melvir quests (which lead to the Pirate Coast). If you play as Albert it's critical to avoid as many enemies as possible in Shiverland when doing the monster quests. You can hold off on Abandoned Keep until you are ready for it. You're also going to more or less want Neidhart in your party whether you like him or not.

Sif is basically Albert's sidekick, she's stuck with the same long starter quest but has none of his interesting story bits. Kinda lame.

Aisha is the hardest starting character, 45 HP she dies from anything.

Claudia has a decently involved questline and starts with unique companions (a wolf and bear) but she can't keep them.

Jamil is meh. He has one quest and brings nothing unique to the game.

Hawke gets to sail around the pirate area long before any other character can get there. I don't know if he has an easier time accessing the Captain Silver quest or not (but he really should).

Gray's personal quest is the most fun IMHO. Can be annoying if you don't like aloof edgelords.

Barbara has the least amount of story (none!) so she's good if you just want to get into the freeroam. She's also best positioned to tackle the Jewel Beast quest.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I'm really enjoying Jamil as my starting character. He has a lot to offer in terms of versatility in combat and how you explore the world. He's sandwiched between lots of areas which gives him easier access to new quests. He has a significantly stronger weapon than what anyone else starts with. Has really high DEX, CHA and INT growths, which gives him tons of options for character classing. He can be a good caster thanks to his high INT, a really good Bowman or Foil user (his starting weapon) because of his DEX and good CHA to use Illusion magic. Additionally he can work well as an Estamirian Rebel whose class ability gives you a bonus to status application. DEX is also used for status / debuff application calculations and status effects also work on bosses.

His only weakness is low VIT but with good armor and setting your weapon to Defensive mode it has not been much of an issue for me. I'm currently at max ER and just running around the world collecting gold to get the best armor before I go and slap Saruin.

Shame that even on the Codex SaGa is very niche. Seems like no one else is interested in this.

 

[Matador]

Shame that even on the Codex SaGa is very niche. Seems like no one else is interested in this.

I think is due to that the games are hard to get in with obscure systems and questing with too much freedom. You can screw your character progression or not now how to proceed in the walkthrough without external help.

Ultimately I think is highly worth it. Just look for FAQs to start and keep going if you don´t have the time to start over walkthroughs several times until you figure it out.

These games have too great TB combat, party building and encounters to miss them just for being opaque and unforgiving.

They are the purest and more prestigious RPGs aside from Wizardry and its best clones.

 

[jungl]

For me it comes down to this SAGA game in particular having missable content like last remnant. Looking at guides for any game kills the experience rpgs are no different. The combat system in SAGA has always been mostly whatever. The best thing this game has going for it is the music and free roam.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Shame that even on the Codex SaGa is very niche. Seems like no one else is interested in this.

I've been playing the living shit out of it, but I try to avoid spoilers, so I barely post about it.

 

[Poseidon00]

Don't sleep on the original SaGa game, Final Fantasy Legend (ignore the name). Short, simple, but very fun for what it is.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Don't sleep on the original SaGa game, Final Fantasy Legend (ignore the name). Short, simple, but very fun for what it is.

Nice misspelling of Final Fantasy II.

 

[JDR13]

Don't sleep on the original SaGa game, Final Fantasy Legend (ignore the name). Short, simple, but very fun for what it is.

Nice misspelling of Final Fantasy II.

Not the same game.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Don't sleep on the original SaGa game, Final Fantasy Legend (ignore the name). Short, simple, but very fun for what it is.

Nice misspelling of Final Fantasy II.

Not the same game.

I know, it's a common joke about the 'original SaGa game'.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Smoked Saruin. Good game. Next time I'll do things different since I made some poor choices along the way, but that's to be expected for your first time through a SaGa game.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Lol, for me several attempts not just the first.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Smoked Saruin. Good game. Next time I'll do things different since I made some poor choices along the way, but that's to be expected for your first time through a SaGa game.

Does it have New game + like the Saga Frontier remaster? Curious what is unlocked after winning.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Smoked Saruin. Good game. Next time I'll do things different since I made some poor choices along the way, but that's to be expected for your first time through a SaGa game.

Does it have New game + like the Saga Frontier remaster? Curious what is unlocked after winning.

Yes, there is NG+. You can carry everything if you want. There's a checkbox for Gold, Jewels, Items, Skill Levels, Techs, Monster Rank, BP, Attributes, HP, Classes, etc.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

I'm nearing the end of my playthrough as Albert. Decided to go with a slower passage of time to get a grasp of the base mechanics, planning to switch to normal for further playthroughs. I was worried that I botched something during my playthrough since I missed quite a few quests and kept steamrolling through everything, but now things start to pick up the pace to the point where certain bosses tend to mop the floor with my party if I'm not careful.

So far my biggest complaint is the camera, as it makes avoiding navigation and avoiding encounters harder than it should be, and sometimes manages to be an annoyance in towns.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

slower passage of time

I'm not even sure what that is referring to. The only metric that seems to matter in the game is Event Rank and I didn't think that was different between versions.

 

[Hobo Elf]

slower passage of time

I'm not even sure what that is referring to. The only metric that seems to matter in the game is Event Rank and I didn't think that was different between versions.

The slower passage of time is based on the NA release. The JP version had faster rank ups, which is normal in this version. Dunno if that really makes the game harder or not, but it does make the timing on quests tighter. Didn't feel like it was the end of the world. I missed out on some "crucial" quests for equipment but was able to get those same items from treasure chests later. There was a bug in the NA release where treasure chests, mining nodes and monster drops didn't go up with your ER, but that has been fixed here, so getting high level loot is not so impossible anymore. In fact I was drowning in all the best upgrade materials after one cave run while legacy online posts lamented that getting even one was close to impossible.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I'm playing on Normal and I was still able to get out of Albert's intro at ER 2, easily completed all the early ER quests with time to spare. I'm pretty good at avoiding fights though, and they did add the smoke bomb pouch for easy escapes.

My main complaint about ER is for the ecology quests. Doing those pretty much guarantees burning yourself out of a ton of other quests, and the rewards are totally not worth it.

 

[Hobo Elf]

You need to do the ecology quests in order to fight a corrupted version of the elemental lords in NG+. Apparently the remaster has done things to make those quests easier. You see the ecology ranking each time you pause the game or go to an area with relevant monsters. Also smoke bombs can be used to avoid fights against the wrong type of enemies.

I skipped out on them since they seemed like busywork but I might have to go back and do them for the extra boss fights and weapons they drop in NG+.

 

[somerandomdude]

Not really feeling Minstrel Song. I vaguely recall trying it on an actual PS2 system, and didn't like it then, and don't like it any more now. The game is loaded with obfuscated/esoteric mechanics, even more so than other saga games. Some people like unraveling that shit, but if it's a mystery to be unraveled, it better be good enough to make me care enough to unravel it, or I'll just move on. I played just a few hours into the remaster, and the game seemed like busywork to me. I also don't care for the art style in this game. All the different systems in this game just don't seem to come together in a cohesive and well thought out manner.

There's plenty of better games that use this type of formula. Saga Frontier 1 & 2 and even Romancing Saga 3, and even The Last Remnant IMO. The Last Remnant had a bunch of obfuscated mechanics/systems as well, but I liked the gameplay and art style better than Minstrel Song.

Also, most of the guides out there for the tech sparking list are incomplete, or flat out wrong in some instances, and this spreadsheet is the most accurate I've found:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oDwHmIW4M74wkB17U5-joN3xaskv5YTNXo0bAbyJm6w/edit#gid=0

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

The Last Remnant had a bunch of obfuscated mechanics/systems as well, but I liked the gameplay and art style better than Minstrel Song.

Strange, because I feel right at home in Minstrel Song after finishing The Last Remnant, but TLR feels more streamlined to compensate for the larger number of characters, as customizing each one would probably be a nightmare in the long run.

 

[Hobo Elf]

If finding out how stuff works is not your cup of tea then yeah that's just the way of it. I wouldn't say the mechanics are any obscurer than in previous SaGa games, but this game does punish experimentation quite a bit with how tight the resource economy is on your first play. You don't really have money and jewels to fuck around with, although this new release does help with the money part due to the fixed scaling rewards that I mentioned a few posts back. You get more good items which means you can sell them off for gold to buy spells and stuff a bit more liberally. Ironically Unlimited SaGa is pretty much just a more streamlined version of Minstrel Song, although with a real turkey of a combat system.

Still, I managed just fine. This was my first time playing Minstrel Song and each hour for the first few hours was a feeling of great joy and satisfaction as I understood what each system and mechanic did and how they come together to create a very elegant and cohesive game. Experience with previous SaGa games helps a bit, though mostly with just having the correct expectations of how things will pretty much go down.

 

[somerandomdude]

The Last Remnant had a bunch of obfuscated mechanics/systems as well, but I liked the gameplay and art style better than Minstrel Song.

Strange, because I feel right at home in Minstrel Song after finishing The Last Remnant, but TLR feels more streamlined to compensate for the larger number of characters, as customizing each one would probably be a nightmare in the long run.

The Last Remnant had a certain memetic charm to the game with frogger mages, and big fish bros with cheesy grins on their faces smashing stuff with axes and clubs. There's really nothing I can point to about this game's world or character designs that I found to be even mildly entertaining. I thought Saga 1 had a similar type of charm to it, and I even liked the art style of Saga 2 as well.

 

[somerandomdude]

If finding out how stuff works is not your cup of tea then yeah that's just the way of it. I wouldn't say the mechanics are any obscurer than in previous SaGa games, but this game does punish experimentation quite a bit with how tight the resource economy is on your first play. You don't really have money and jewels to fuck around with, although this new release does help with the money part due to the fixed scaling rewards that I mentioned a few posts back. You get more good items which means you can sell them off for gold to buy spells and stuff a bit more liberally. Ironically Unlimited SaGa is pretty much just a more streamlined version of Minstrel Song, although with a real turkey of a combat system.

Still, I managed just fine. This was my first time playing Minstrel Song and each hour for the first few hours was a feeling of great joy and satisfaction as I understood what each system and mechanic did and how they come together to create a very elegant and cohesive game. Experience with previous SaGa games helps a bit, though mostly with just having the correct expectations of how things will pretty much go down.

Fists and Bow are pretty much the 2 best weapons IMO. Especially fists when you don't have money for weapons, but saving up enough gold to buy that Kjar Bow and get some +DP modifier on it via crafting makes things go a lot smoother. 3 guys specced fists, 1 person on bow, and the 5th spot was a mage. I turned Barbara into a Mage. I sparked Millionaire on Bow pretty quickly, and that attack with a Kjar bow with a +3 DP mod on it just cleans up trash in a big way. So, it's not that I couldn't beat this game, it's just that the game wasn't fun. Mind blast on a mage is a pretty good AOE as well, so between Millionaire and Mind blast, I had AOEs covered, and my fist guys typically used jackhammer, or a similar mid-tier tech as their standard attacks. I had the fist guys on defensive so they took less damage, and that really helped a lot with damage mitigation. Fists also get a heal+regen, which helps a lot as well, and bow gets a phoenix arrow move that heals. So, all my characters had heals in one form or another. That zapper move on bow, the one that shoots a huge lightning bolt appears to ignore physical defenses, and it seems to combo well with fist techs. Kjar Sentinel class is very good, so that's one of the classes that's worth spending some jewels on, IMO. Pair that with a Kjar bow, and it's pretty strong. I got several pieces of electrum material, and it's quite good for putting +DP mods onto weapons, you take a damage cut, but it's worth it if it allows you to frequently use DP heavy attacks for low to no cost. I'm told that the Roselian Mage class is busted with spell synthesis and can trivialize the game. So, if I was looking to meta game this shit, I'd have pumped Roselian Mage.