SaGa Series Discussion

[Matador]

The proficiency system in Minstrel Song is a work of genius. Really nice way of meaningful non combat skill check while exploring, with good rewards.

You have to make sacrifices selecting them and the gems being relatively scarce means that you can't spend a lot upgrading them.

I mean, I don't remember any RPG in general with this made so well.

 

[Matador]

Got the Demonbrand and finished the Trials of Elore. Seems like only Saruin is left to finish the game.

 

[Matador]

Saruin is a cheap bastard. Is there a way to recover Animated Dead characters to my side? No spell seems to work.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Is there a way to recover Animated Dead characters to my side?

If you found the moonstone, equip it on your weakest character and put them in the front line and let them die. The moonstone prevents necromancy so Saruin will waste turns trying to convert them. Otherwise, no.

General Saruin tips:

-Don't neglect defense. Give everyone field plate, conqueror gloves, fashionable helm, leg mail. It makes a big difference.
-Put all weapons in defense mode.
-Make as many characters as you can Rosalian officers (boosts defense mode buff even further) or Castle Knight (Can deflect Saruin's nastiest attacks).
-Attack as much as you can. Every hit breaks a pillar, reduces the pillar toss attack damage, and causes him to take more damage until he respawns them. Note that vortexes count as an extra hit and can burn down the pillars faster.

Good luck!

 

[Matador]

Is there a way to recover Animated Dead characters to my side?

If you found the moonstone, equip it on your weakest character and put them in the front line and let them die. The moonstone prevents necromancy so Saruin will waste turns trying to convert them. Otherwise, no.

General Saruin tips:

-Don't neglect defense. Give everyone field plate, conqueror gloves, fashionable helm, leg mail. It makes a big difference.
-Put all weapons in defense mode.
-Make as many characters as you can Rosalian officers (boosts defense mode buff even further) or Castle Knight (Can deflect Saruin's nastiest attacks).
-Attack as much as you can. Every hit breaks a pillar, reduces the pillar toss attack damage, and causes him to take more damage until he respawns them. Note that vortexes count as an extra hit and can burn down the pillars faster.

Good luck!

No moonstone unfortunately. I think that permanent charm even on death, with no deadline, and no spells to cancel aside from a missable obscure item it is very cheap.

The game is fantastic, but I don't like the late game bosses. All are based on stacking defense and grind to get HP to survive the bullshit, and then they are trivial. They are immune to everything aside from debuffs (Saruin I think can´t debuffed, not one has triggered for me). They don´t encourage tactical play but grinding for defense. I didn't got to the point that you said of giving everyone plate armor, but I was already with weapon modes in DEF, priorizing defense on everyone, regardless of more fitting items.

Early game I was having fun triggering paralyze, stuns,etc. But soon every enemy is immune to all, so no point on using those fun skills.

Aside from the camera and some tedium finding quests sometimes, that is my only criticism to the game. It´s one of the best RPGs I have ever played but the bosses pale in comparison to SMT, and the regular encounters are trivial and HP bloated (Elminage Gothic being the king here).

Also too many skills that are of no use. Just stick to trigger some combos I discovered, and spam the AOE high level pyro spell with Myriam for regular encounters. And Agi,Strength and Int debuffs for the bosses with some healing, hoping to have enough HP and purchased enough armor to tank One Hit Kills.

This reminds me I have to complete some day Romancing Saga 3. Where there is less HP bloat, I felt the skills were stronger, the combat flows better and you can be more creative, ironically with less systems and skills.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I don't know if Saruin is specifically immune to debuffs. Status effects and debuffs have a higher chance of triggering on combos. I'd bet the pillars protect him from debuffs too.

You don't *need* to stack defense, however it is a viable strategy when you miss a lot of content and reach the final boss underleveled. Raise dead can be countered by just killing the guy again, or using revive/phantom warrior to avoid death in the first place.

The end game bosses (and postgame/ng+ bosses) encourage hard counters to their skills, such as finding status-immune equipment or adjusting your gear for magic defense (Shirach). There are also many overpowered strategies mostly involving the Chalice and Phantom warrior spells.

I've always found trying to buff/debuff is a losing strategy in these games, you're usually best off blasting foes on full DPS from turn one. The trick here is mostly setting up your team to maximize BP pools and minimize usage--Did you temper all your weapons? I like that you can have everything in your favor and still have a rough time because of the endless RNG factors. In the SMT games, bosses are generally impossible without a specific skillset or loadout, which then completely trivializes them. Too binary.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Aside from the camera

I got used to it and started appreciating it as soon as I realized it's designed in a way to lead you to the exit of the dungeon if you keep moving back, which is useful when you get lost and don't have a map.

That said, I understand your concerns, 'cause it's VERY annoying in a few towns (e.g. Yeoville, where it spazzes out like crazy).

regular encounters are trivial and HP bloated

For some reason, I don't remember HP bloat at all, as I could clear most encounters in 1-2 rounds per link.

 

[Matador]

The HP bloat is only late game.

 

[TigerKnee]

Debuff is a viable strategy in MS but it requires a full party composition because of the weird way they scale.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Finally went back to Romancing SaGa 2 after getting it on Switch since my PC time is usually spent working.

It's FUN.

 

[HoboForEternity]

so these games are on sale on steam. which one should i start with ?

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

so these games are on sale on steam. which one should i start with ?

You should play the two most unique games of the series, which are Romancing Saga 2 and The Last Remnant.

Romancing Saga 2's novelty is that permadeath is woven into the gameplay. You play as a dynasty of emperors and his retainers, who through the generations fight against 7 demon lords and gradually expand the empire. If your party wipes, you do not game over, but instead fast forward to the next generation who take up arms and continue where their forefathers left off, inheriting skills and abilities. The game is non-linear; if you're not powerful enough for a certain area then you can leave and go explore a different area and come back later.




The Last Remnant has usual Saga mechanics of levelling up abilities and skills through use and enemy level scaling. The main novelty factor of TLR is that rather than commanding a party of 4-6 characters, you instead command 4-5 parties of up to 20 characters total. It can become a bit like an SRPG. Also has a killer powermetal soundtrack by the guitarist of The Black Mages, Tsuyoshi Sekito. The game has been delisted from the Steam store but you can still buy and redeem Steam keys from G2A. Be warned that the game is 80% optional sidequests which have to be done in a certain order if you wish to see all of the content and fight the superbosses, which takes about 100 hours. I strongly recommend downloading the TLRplanner mod to reduce the tediousness of the RNG by forcing spawning the rare mobs you are looking for and force dropping the rare items you need, and also you can teleport across maps. Bewarned that the main bulk of the game is sidequests and battles. If you ignore the sidequests and just focus on the story then you will finish in under 20 hours, and there is about 2 hours of cutscenes total.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

so these games are on sale on steam. which one should i start with ?

If you're looking for a starting point to 'ease' yourself into the series, SaGa Frontier, SaGa: Scarlet Grace, and The Last Remnant can work just fine. That, or start with the original Game Boy games and work your way up based on what games are available on your platform of choice.

I think they're all worth playing, but I strongly suggest against using mods or guides unless you're hopelessly stuck.

Getting into these games can be a challenge at first, and you are likely to experience a few botched runs since they're not like the majority of RPGs you've played out there, and they don't care about easing you in.

Also, don't listen to people who suggest you should avoid battles -- as long as you fight whatever you encounter along the way and keep researching / upgrading your equipment (if the game allows it), you should be fine in most games in the series.

 

[HoboForEternity]

I bought saga 2.

 

[HoboForEternity]

Incidentally i remembered i played a pirated copy of last remnant all those years ago. I thought the gameplay system was great with utterly stupid story and stupider "plot twist"

Nevertheless i enjoyed its gameplay and didn't know it shared its DNA with the romancing saga games.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I'll always recommend minstrel song but maybe R saga 3 is more beginner friendly.

 

[Abu Antar]

SaGa 2 wouldn't be the game I recommend to a newcomer, even if I like it.

Romancing SaGa 3, and SaGa Frontier are more beginner friendly, imo. Not going by my personal favorite game.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Fun fact: the "Romancing" part of the name comes from Romancing the Stone, the 80's Michael Douglas - Kathleen turner adventure comedy, about a romance author trying to find an Emerald to save her sister.



This was a movie my dad copied to VHS off of Spectrum as a kid so I probably watched it a million times.