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Salt And Sanctuary (2D "Souls" game)

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Abu Antar, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. Zed Duke of Banville Zo Kath Ra Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
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    • Boost endurance further so that you can wear more armor while keeping under your desired break-point regarding rolling
    • Boost willpower, since more stamina is always useful
    • Expand into the wisdom/prayer section of the grid, to take advantage of a few useful prayers

    How far into the game have you gotten, and what character build are you using?
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
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  2. Mozg Arcane

    Mozg
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    I'm not using a map, but I offer the dissenting opinion here that it's pretty needlessly confusing because they string together so many shortcuts between areas you never use because you pop horns to teleport around instead. I kind of wonder if they wanted to harshly limit teleporting at first then later on went "fuck it this shortcut spaghetti is too annoying, 100 GP for a teleport horn." Also I'm pretty sure I fucked up the knight/thief thing.

    Edit - and it's always annoying to follow a featureless spaghetti corridor that leads back to one of the 5 one-way doors you saw going through an area a couple hours ago that you never had any reason to go back to, then backtrack out again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
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  3. Leechmonger Arbiter

    Leechmonger
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    I've tried to like this game, but it's just garbage. It's Dark Souls with shallower floaty combat and fanfic-tier lore. Oh and they tacked on a Path of Exile-style skill tree Tree of Skill (kill me) minus the interesting build decisions.

    Bosses' attack combos get longer as the fight wears on, but there's no transitions from one hit to the next. They just keep appending new standalone animations one after another, rather than having one continuous animation for the whole string. This results in a disjointed mess that looks awkward and plays worse. If you played Dark Souls 3 and complained about some mobs' spammy attacks, consider that at least From Software went through the trouble of making those attacks look good.

    You would think that since they chose to go 2D and stick platforms everywhere that they would allow players to attack upward, but nope. It's a good thing flying enemies don't hover directly above you but rather arc from one side to the other, otherwise things could get hairy for our clipart protagonist. Likewise, it should be pretty easy to have good hitboxes in a 2D game, but apparently it just isn't easy enough. Then again, what should I expect from a game that features one of the worst menus I've ever seen.
     
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  4. AMG Arbiter

    AMG
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    Reads just like a typical reatard's steam review after playing Dork Souls for 30 minutes.

    Controls are normal, lore is irrelevant. Skill tree, presentation aside, is functionally almost identical to just pumping whatever stat in Dark Souls. Actually, it's slightly superior, because you have to grab extra flask charges on the tree, so there is some opportunity cost.

    I have no idea what you are talking about regarding bosses. Some don't have smooth transitions between their moves to create fakeout moments. Sodden Knight f.e. always plays the full chain on his jumping attack in 3rd phase, so he transitions more smoothly than some other bosses (final boss is the best example), who will skip/delay moves depending on your distance to them or rng. I fail to see anything wrong with it. I mean, dodging in these games is mostly reliant on pattern recognition and timing anyway, not on fluidly respnding to opponent's moves. And rolling in salty sanctuary is easy as is.

    Lack of upward attack is the only legitimate complaint, but it's kinda irrelevant, since most weapons attack in an arc. Hitboxes - meme tier complaint. Menus are almost the same as Dork Souls, except somehow even more shit, but w/e.
     
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  5. Leechmonger Arbiter

    Leechmonger
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    I had the opportunity to play this game again this weekend so I went ahead and finished it. I definitely appreciate it a lot more now, but it's certainly a case of wasted potential. A few thoughts:

    Exploration in this game is extremely fun, and the world has all kinds of shortcuts between areas. Unfortunately these shortcuts are largely redundant given how easily the player can teleport between locations. The game would have benefited from having dedicated teleporter devices that the player must rely on instead of being able to go anywhere at will.

    The Brand movement abilities add a lot to the game.

    My opinion on the combat system has not changed: it is extremely simplistic, and the bosses tend to be pretty disappointing as a result. I thought the game was quite hard at first as I adjusted to the game's idiosyncrasies but the skill ceiling is rather low. Once you learn a few tricks you'll reuse them endlessly for the rest of the game. I went with a strength build, pumping my stat points into greatswords, greathammers, shields, and heavy armor (the latter of which was too heavy to actually use). After getting my shit pushed in by the Witch of the Lake I switched from the Type 46 Towershield to the Iron Rampart for the Arcane resist and never looked back. I did like the fact that switching between slashing and blunt weapons had a noticeable impact on damage output, and that enemy vulnerabilities to each were usually intuitive.

    I wish the art style were less blurry in some locations. I liked that the game contains some pitch-black areas.

    I was happy with the variety of enemy models. When small enemies decide to spam grab attacks the game can go fuck itself.

    Looking at the wiki now it looks like I missed two areas: Mal's Floating Castle and Mire of Stench. This means I actually missed the Brand that allows you to go through red barriers.

    EDIT: My favorite player message was "Get wrecked, crazy woman"

    EDIT 2: My character was around level 78 at the end.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
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  6. DragoFireheart all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.

    DragoFireheart
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    Recently started playing this.

    Enjoying it quite a bit.
     
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  7. toro Arcane

    toro
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    Another try and another rage quit.

    I wanted to use light armor and maces. Well according to the Tree of Skill the answer is: Fuck No! If you want to use Light Armor then you have to select the DEX branch and if you want to use Maces then you have to select the STR branch.

    Basically the Tree of Skill is needlessly restrictive: either you use a standard build or it's grind time. Great design. I need a break from this shit.
     
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  8. Alkarl Learned

    Alkarl
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    Encumberance vs Dodge, The Game.

    Heavy armor isnt worth wearing when you get 2/3 the same protection or more from most light suits plus a far more reliable dodge that completely negates damage. This game also highlights one of the ways in which DS doesnt translate well into 2d, with how movement works aside, the world is just a jumbled mess.

    You can go strength and light, sure you might have to pick up a point of dex every now and then, but even with a bad build by mid game you'll be blowing through most areas. After I finished the castle, most bosses were between 1-3 shots with a greatsword/great axe. Due to the way dodging works and how little health & ai most enemies/bosses have, just two-hand and only pop out a shield when it is convenient to parry/block, which is rare.

    Speaking of weapons, scaling is almost wholly irrelevant. Early on I was using the tier 2 two-hander Kureioma(sp?) with S str scaling which was absolutely outstripped by the Kraekan greataxe I made a couple bosses later with D str scaling. The best stats are encumberance and stamina. I kept most bosses perma stunned due to my damage output and my stamina pool. Even worse, I'm still using tiers 2 and 3 weapons, which means I'm not even scratching the upward limit of the damage I can output.

    Mages get the shortest stick though since the best mage spells aren't available until you reach the end game. Wtf was the point with that shit?!

    The worst part for me was the limited camera range in conjunction with platforming. I hated when the game expected me to make a jump that I had no idea would lead somewhere. Worse offenders being getting to Mals Castle and Crypt of Dead Gods.
    I believe that the cheap teleporting was a result of poor world planning in combination with the increasing movement abilities available. The developers cant be sure you have dart in an area easily reached with shadow flip etc so if players found themselves stuck they had two options: suicide or warp. One of those feels better than the other, feels more "fair".
     
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  9. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    So Codex general gaming is infested with popamole and decline, so I figure I'll bump this thread since I just beat the game. Wasn't planning to, but the game and codex both deserve it.

    This game is very, very competently designed. I encountered one minor bug in my 20 hours of playtime. Performance was flawless. It's challenging but for the most part fair. Level design is great. It's a fantastic Metroidvania Souls-like.
    There is however a point of contention: it is extremely derivative of Dark Souls, basically copying nearly all systems and mechanics almost 1:1. This at first made me assume the devs had no creative talent, but you discover from the level design, art direction (made mostly by one person, and a woman at that!), enemy & boss design that this is not quite the case. The game definitely deserves to be recognised on its own despite the shameless copying, and everything is either derivative or shit these days anyway. Nonetheless I expected a touch more creativity in some regards, but whatever. It's a fucking solid game.
    I also want to add that there is creativity in taking systems and mechanics from a 3D game and translating it to 2D. It also adds additional emphasis on platforming over souls, which is pretty much mandatory as replacement for three dimensional gameplay. Swap it for increased vertical gameplay.
    There really isn't much bad to say about the game as it stands, at least as the class I played (Hunter). Perhaps that pistols are possibly OP. Just making it require a touch more aim precision would probably fix it. I guess I was disappointed with the final area and boss. Pretty anti-climatic. There's things that I wish there was MORE of, more music, more skill tree depth, but this doesn't make the game bad. Edit: I suppose the tree of skill is unnecessarily restrictive like toro mentioned, but I had a good time with it cause I managed to get everything I wanted.
    There's plenty good to say about the game, even if it's really nothing new, but you should see for yourself.

    I highly recommend it if you like gameplay-centric games as god intended.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
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  10. Teut Busnet Cipher

    Teut Busnet
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    I bought Hollowknight during the summer sale and I have to say - it made me want to play Salt & Sanctuary again instead.

    Hollowknight is certainly superior in a lot of ways - graphic, sound, atmosphere too probably. But I missed different character builds, the variety of weapons, armor, charms for your weapons - a particular nice idea - etc.. Fighting is a lot more fun, tactical and less 'button mashy'.

    So even if the skill tree is absurdly bloated and sometimes it can be a bit hard to notice everything in a level, I agree with the recommendation. Put it on your wishlist.
     
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  11. sullynathan Arcane

    sullynathan
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    S&S is shit
     
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  12. 4249 I stalk the night Patron

    4249
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2
    no u
     
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  13. Abu Antar Prestigious Gentleman Tweet, tweet Patron

    Abu Antar
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    :necro:
    Their newest game was announced, today. Good looking, their games are not, but I have had fun with them.
     
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  14. fork Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    fork
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    2022. PC when? :(
    Will probably be better than Elden Ring though.
     
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  15. Decado Prestigious Gentleman Old time handsome face wrecker Patron

    Decado
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    Location:
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    Codex 2014
    Literally four years later . . .

    This game isn't bad. My son was born a few weeks ago so I've a lot of quiet time, just sitting on the couch and holding him because that is the only way he will sleep. So I decided to give this game another whirl.

    I am sure there have been balance changes/patches by now. But for some reason it is "clicking" with me now in a way it didn't before. I was frustrated with the clumsiness of the 2D combat but after getting acclimated to the controls -- specifically, the sluggishness -- it is not bad. Currently using a heavily armored knight with the Kuriema whatever the fuck, why not just call it a claymore? Just killed the dragon in the Castle of Storms.

    I can see myself playing through with a more tankish/paladin build, and maybe a magic build. We'll see.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2021
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  16. fork Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    fork
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    Congrats on your son! The world is fucking shit, so it's hard, but try not to let him go to shit!

    Also kinda spoilerish, but there is some kind of bugged jump which hasn't been fixed yet (so it probably isn't a bug), which makes the game feel a lot less slugglish/more skillled. It's easy to find if you want to use it. It made the game even better for me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
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  17. Decado Prestigious Gentleman Old time handsome face wrecker Patron

    Decado
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    Codex 2014
    Thanks man.

    I'm familiar with the long jump glitch. I never bothered to try it because I figured it was patched out -- if not, I'll try it. I'm playing on a PS4.
     
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  18. Mauman Learned

    Mauman
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    The Kuriema thing was an inside joke. When putting the data into the game, one of the devs put it in as romanized Katakana (Japanese for foreign words), and they forgot to take it out. They thought it was funny though so they kept it that way.

    There's worse reasons for naming things weirdly out there :P
     
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  19. Abu Antar Prestigious Gentleman Tweet, tweet Patron

    Abu Antar
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I saw a release trailer for a new mod. Add a randomizer, and some customization options
     
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  20. Mauman Learned

    Mauman
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    (sees spindlebeasts in first area)

    :flamesaw:
     
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  21. LarryTyphoid Learned

    LarryTyphoid
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    I just wish they'd release The Dishwasher Dead Samurai on PC. Ska's previous games all had really unique vibes, so it's sad that S&S, a pretty shameless Dark Souls ripoff, is their biggest success so far.
     
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  22. Sinatar Arbiter

    Sinatar
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    They released the Dishwasher sequel on PC and nobody gave a singular fuck.

     
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  23. LarryTyphoid Learned

    LarryTyphoid
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    Yeah, and that game is fucking sick. I bought it right when it came out because I played the demo on 360 back when I was a kid. Plus, I looked through the achievements, and there's one called "Game Reviewers Shall Be Pleased" for playing on the joke easy difficulty, so Ska Studios was ahead of the curve with making fun of journos.

    I think they're hesitant about porting Dead Samurai because they might have to remove some of the co-op features. If I recall correctly, the co-op characters were all gimmicks, like one where you play with a Guitar Hero controller. I don't know if Steam has native support for that kind of hardware. It would be cool if they had the Chef as the co-op partner so you could have a real, symmetrical co-op like Vampire Smile's.

    A lot of great games are still locked behind on the Xbox 360 - it was probably the last good console. Thankfully, nowadays the 360 seems to be the preferred choice for bootleggers, so you'd still get some use out of getting one these days.
     
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