"Second best stealth game after Thief" is actually a pretty good topic for a thread.

[Cowboy Moment]

I almost feel bad for Roguey whenever Sawyer says something stupid, you can almost imagine steam coming out of her ears as she tries to resolve the contradicition.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

If you solve a problem then obviously the designer expected you to solve that problem and gave you the tools required to do so.

Watch a speed runthrough of Thief. Then you'll see how bullshit your statement is.

 

[DalekFlay]

Aural observation could be equally necessary when there's no direct way to see your enemies even with a third person camera. DX:HR uses the enemy radar instead.

So your opinion is peeking from the shadows and having to listen to the environment is really no better than magic radar and third-person psychic vision around corners?

This is a stupid argument.

 

[Ninjerk]

Aural observation could be equally necessary when there's no direct way to see your enemies even with a third person camera. DX:HR uses the enemy radar instead.

So your opinion is peeking from the shadows and having to listen to the environment is really no better than magic radar and third-person psychic vision around corners?

This is a stupid argument.

There is functionally no difference between leaning or viewing things from behind cover in third person.

For three pages. This is what you guys have been arguing with for three pages.

 

[DefJam101]

So let's think about this for just one second.

You're saying that emergent gameplay is bad, because it allows the player to do things the developers haven't anticipated (jump on a roof you're not supposed to).

You're simultaneously saying that "finding solutions that weren't simply placed there by the developer" is an illusion.

If you solve a problem then obviously the designer expected you to solve that problem and gave you the tools required to do so.

Saved for posterity.

Moreover, I never said that leaning from the shadows was "functionally different" from third person snooping, so not only is your example poorly chosen, it's also completely irrelevant to what we're talking about. Please stop trying to roll the topic of discussion back two pages just because you said something silly. Thanks. ^_^

I believe you said "one is fun and the other isn't because I'm autistic."

sick burn bro

You've yet to respond to any of my distinctly not-one-liner posts with messages over one line. So, like, while it's highly possible you're eventually going to post yet another one-liner declaring how no one can refute your brilliant arguments, the unfortunate reality for your future credibility is that those posts aren't going to disappear when you hit the reply button.

There's more substance in my brevity than any of those.

All right that's one person choosing empty one-liners over an actual attempt at a rebuttal.

There is also the fact that you must press and hold a key to stick to the wall (or put it to toggle which is even worse) whereas in first person you just walk up to the wall. Of course if you lean you must hold q/e but it certainly feels less uncontrolled and artificial as all movement is directly in my control.

Autism.

Oh wait you're just doing it over and over


That's about enough. Everyone (except Roguey, unless Roguey is a troll) can see what's going on at this point.

Peace.

 

[Roguey]

Aural observation could be equally necessary when there's no direct way to see your enemies even with a third person camera. DX:HR uses the enemy radar instead.

So your opinion is peeking from the shadows and having to listen to the environment is really no better than magic radar and third-person psychic vision around corners?

This is a stupid argument.

Different methods, same results. Makes no difference to me. Or Josh.

It's also funny how you're all MAGIC and PSYCHIC when the shadows in Thief are just as magic and no one is that fucking noisy when they walk nor do people mutter to themselves out loud all the time. Genre conventions.

 

[DalekFlay]

It's also funny how you're all MAGIC and PSYCHIC when the shadows in Thief are just as magic and no one is that fucking noisy when they walk nor do people mutter to themselves out loud all the time. Genre conventions.

You're still ignoring the fact Thief's shadows are nowhere near as dependable or frequent as you are portraying them.

 

[Ninjerk]

Fuck the shadows, that's the troll argument trap. Think about perspective.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Bickering with a guy whose personality sucks balls.
On the other hand, he has no personality.
Still, his nothingness sucks balls pretty hard.
By the way, how are you today, Viktoria?

 

[Ninjerk]

Bickering with a guy whose personality sucks balls.
On the other hand, he has no personality.
Still, his nothingness sucks balls pretty hard.
By the way, how are you today, Viktoria?

EDIT: Actually, Roguey isn't as bad as I remember MyImmortal being.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Bickering with a guy whose personality sucks balls.
On the other hand, he has no personality.
Still, his nothingness sucks balls pretty hard.
By the way, how are you today, Viktoria?

EDIT: Actually, Roguey isn't as bad as I remember MyImmortal being.

Forgot to insert this smile:

 

[Ninjerk]

 

[Roguey]

It's also funny how you're all MAGIC and PSYCHIC when the shadows in Thief are just as magic and no one is that fucking noisy when they walk nor do people mutter to themselves out loud all the time. Genre conventions.

You're still ignoring the fact Thief's shadows are nowhere near as dependable or frequent as you are portraying them.

I just played them. Shadows everywhere, and in places where they weren't, it was usually no problem to create your own.

 

[DalekFlay]

It's also funny how you're all MAGIC and PSYCHIC when the shadows in Thief are just as magic and no one is that fucking noisy when they walk nor do people mutter to themselves out loud all the time. Genre conventions.

You're still ignoring the fact Thief's shadows are nowhere near as dependable or frequent as you are portraying them.

I just played them. Shadows everywhere, and in places where they weren't, it was usually no problem to create your own.

I just played them too, and I disagree. In the city ambush escape for example, tons of streetlights you can't remove and tons of guards everywhere. You are forced to peek around corners when the guards are at a distance, listen to their footsteps to know when to sprint across, etc. etc. None of that gameplay is there as strongly in third-person sneakers. I love games like Chaos Theory but it's not comparable when it comes to making you feel like a vulnerable sneaker among guards.

 

[Deakul]

deus ex is is literally the best stealth game sorry but if you disagree you are wrong

 

[Darth Slaughter]

It's also funny how you're all MAGIC and PSYCHIC when the shadows in Thief are just as magic and no one is that fucking noisy when they walk nor do people mutter to themselves out loud all the time. Genre conventions.

You're still ignoring the fact Thief's shadows are nowhere near as dependable or frequent as you are portraying them.

I just played them. Shadows everywhere, and in places where they weren't, it was usually no problem to create your own.

I just played them too, and I disagree. In the city ambush escape for example, tons of streetlights you can't remove and tons of guards everywhere. You are forced to peek around corners when the guards are at a distance, listen to their footsteps to know when to sprint across, etc. etc. None of that gameplay is there as strongly in third-person sneakers. I love games like Chaos Theory but it's not comparable when it comes to making you feel like a vulnerable sneaker among guards.

In splinter cell games in general you have the goggles, you can whistle to attract enemies and can do that infinitelly. Thief has gadjets and special noise arrows and orb cameras, but they are limited. Of course in thief you can jump to attract your enemies (thanks to the possibility of jumping anywhere), but thief AI is so random that when they get alerted, they never go to the place the player intended to attract them. In fact, the alerted thief AI is so random that they are completelly unpredictable.

 

[DalekFlay]

In splinter cell games in general you have the goggles, you can whistle to attract enemies and can do that infinitelly. Thief has gadjets and special noise arrows and orb cameras, but they are limited. Of course in thief you can jump to attract your enemies (thanks to the possibility of jumping anywhere), but thief AI is so random that when they get alerted, they never go to the place the player intended to attract them. In fact, the alerted thief AI is so random that they are completelly unpredictable.

Not sure what this has to do with first vs. third person, but... yeah, pretty much.

 

[Roguey]

In splinter cell games in general you have the goggles, you can whistle to attract enemies and can do that infinitelly. Thief has gadjets and special noise arrows and orb cameras, but they are limited. Of course in thief you can jump to attract your enemies (thanks to the possibility of jumping anywhere), but thief AI is so random that when they get alerted, they never go to the place the player intended to attract them. In fact, the alerted thief AI is so random that they are completelly unpredictable.

I didn't bother with noise arrows and just used regular ones. The guards always went in the direction of the where the arrow hit.

 

[DalekFlay]

Oh hey look you ignored the strong counter-argument. Shocker.

 

[Roguey]

It wasn't much of one. If you're referring to one of my favorite levels from Thief 2 there was always a safe place from where you could observe. The tension came from navigating it, and it'd be no different from a tpp.

 

[Ninjerk]

deus ex is is literally the best stealth game sorry but if you disagree you are wrong

Darts

 

[Darth Slaughter]

In splinter cell games in general you have the goggles, you can whistle to attract enemies and can do that infinitelly. Thief has gadjets and special noise arrows and orb cameras, but they are limited. Of course in thief you can jump to attract your enemies (thanks to the possibility of jumping anywhere), but thief AI is so random that when they get alerted, they never go to the place the player intended to attract them. In fact, the alerted thief AI is so random that they are completelly unpredictable.

Not sure what this has to do with first vs. third person, but... yeah, pretty much.

Nothing. Just that thief is first best...

 

[DalekFlay]

It wasn't much of one. If you're referring to one of my favorite levels from Thief 2 there was always a safe place from where you could observe. The tension came from navigating it, and it'd be no different from a tpp.

You're literally making shit up and acting smug about false conclusions. The essence of internet shitposting.

 

[Ninjerk]

It wasn't much of one. If you're referring to one of my favorite levels from Thief 2 there was always a safe place from where you could observe. The tension came from navigating it, and it'd be no different from a tpp.

You're literally making shit up and acting smug about false conclusions. The essence of internet shitposting.

 

[Cassidy]

Why are you even wasting your time arguing with Josh Sawyer's sockpuppet Roguey?