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Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

Lambach

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Whose least favorite boss or mini-boss of this game is yours?

Demon of Hatred. I don't particularly enjoy fighting him and I never got good against him. He was stomping me into the dirt even on my 4th playthrough, and in that one I was so practiced that I wiped the floor with Ishin in the first attempt, but DoH was still a brick wall for a solid 2 hours.
 

Nathir

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I also remember having difficulties against the Demon, but iirc then I used the umbrella shield and did it first try.
 

Lambach

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I also remember having difficulties against the Demon, but iirc then I used the umbrella shield and did it first try.

I never use Spirit Emblems in that fight before the third phase, because I need to cheese the shit out of it with that Whistle thingy and Divine Confetti, or my chances of beating the fucker rapidly approach zero. DoH remains the only Boss I could never defeat without Prosthetics and/or cheese.
 

Silva

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Anybody else noticed a big gap in difficulty between the two possible paths (the normal one and the one where you fight extra bosses, like Father Owl etc) ?

My first time I missed the extra bosses and the endgame ones became really tough. I almost quitted the game on demon of hatred. Then my next playthrough I went for the path where you fight extra bosses along the way and I wiped the floor with demon of Hatred (besides making Isshin much mode manageable).

I think the "default" playthrough can become too frustrating because of this, specially for first timers.
 

Old Hans

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i really hate these bosses that have a sweep and a thrust and you have 0.1 seconds to figure out which one it is
 

Black Angel

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i really hate these bosses that have a sweep and a thrust and you have 0.1 seconds to figure out which one it is
Weapon on the ground = sweep
Weapon not on the ground = thrust
Not holding their weapons? = grabs
You can also identify them based on what attack move they performed prior to the perilous attacks. Generally speaking, a sweep will flow from horizontal slashes, while thrusts generally happens after vertical strikes or if they pull their weapons back.

If you're still not confident in identifying the attacks in time, you can always train with Hanbei the Undying.
 

Old Hans

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i really hate these bosses that have a sweep and a thrust and you have 0.1 seconds to figure out which one it is
Weapon on the ground = sweep
Weapon not on the ground = thrust
Not holding their weapons? = grabs
You can also identify them based on what attack move they performed prior to the perilous attacks. Generally speaking, a sweep will flow from horizontal slashes, while thrusts generally happens after vertical strikes or if they pull their weapons back.

If you're still not confident in identifying the attacks in time, you can always train with Hanbei the Undying.
I blame the big red rune that pops up, which draws my attention away from the animation. so really im not gonna blame myself. I will blame miyazaki for adding that distraction, which goes against the Shinobi iron code.
 

Blaine

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Two which Demon's/Dark Souls game is the level design (strictly the level design) in Sekiro most similar?

The answer to this question will determine whether or not I ever play it. It's on sale now, and I've been playing through DS1 and DS2 again this past month or so, so I'm interested.
 
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I think it's DS 3. There no world interconnectness like in Dark Souls 1 nor environmental hazards like in DS 2. However, Sekiro isn't about level design, but about boss battles. It's certainly more fun than DS 3, Sekiro feels more fresh, even if it's just a pure action game.
 

Silva

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Two which Demon's/Dark Souls game is the level design (strictly the level design) in Sekiro most similar?
Sekiro level design is pretty good and somewhat refreshing coming from the Souls games. It's a semi-linear romp through the Ashina clan lands with the main castle as it's epicenter. Different from DS2 though, here it makes sense - you can open a map and see how the lands neighbour each other in coherent fashion. It's semi-linear because you'll need/want to revisit some of the peripheral areas after the first clean up, and refreshing because some areas are truly beautiful in a way you don't see much in Soulsdom.

I say go for it. Even if it's not my favorite souls, it's totally worthy the experience. Plus the bosses are the best From ever did.
 

Old Hans

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Two which Demon's/Dark Souls game is the level design (strictly the level design) in Sekiro most similar?

The answer to this question will determine whether or not I ever play it. It's on sale now, and I've been playing through DS1 and DS2 again this past month or so, so I'm interested.
compared to demon's souls, you can traverse the areas fairly quickly in Sekiro, but the sword combat is so much fun and the boss fights are fun EXCEPT for that big dumb demon
 

Silva

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Don't play it it's gonna be too hard for you.

It will certainly be too hard for me to play if it's one long, thinly-disguised linear path with treasure nooks off to the side and fast travel nodes every twenty feet like DS3 was.
You're in for a surprise. The vertical exploration + different combat results in a very different experience than Souls.

Stop talking and play it already.
 
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Don't play it it's gonna be too hard for you.

It will certainly be too hard for me to play if it's one long, thinly-disguised linear path with treasure nooks off to the side and fast travel nodes every twenty feet like DS3 was.

Wow even my ace in the hole foolproof plan to get you to play it yielded no result. Well that's it I'm all out of tricks.
 

Blaine

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Silva I'm aware of the grappling hook and the many differences between the two franchises.

So far, I'm very unconvinced. DS3 greatly damaged my confidence in modern FromSoft's ability to design levels, previously one of the studio's greatest strengths; and there are countless of examples of games with verticality that are absolute shit in the level design department.

DS3 was basically a rail with content dropped on it, so I feel fairly justified in being skeptical here.
 
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If all you care about is level design Sekiro ain't for you. It's not terrible in that regard but it ain't DS or DS II. Exploration is done much faster thanks to highly increased mobility and really what you're gonna be doing most is getting raped by bosses over and over until you git gud. And yes, there are plenty of bonfires. So you play it for combat or you don't play at all. The problem with DS III for me was that combat was also pretty shit. I enjoyed it a lot in Sekiro. But it's not to everyone's taste.
 
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Cosmo

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Exploration is done much faster thanks to highly increased mobility and really what you're gonna be doing most is getting raped by bosses over and over until you git gud. So you play it for combat or you don't play at all.

Exploration is tactics. You don't explore a space, you explore the practical possibilities it's liable to give you.
You only discover space by absorbing into the way you play the game.
 

Blaine

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Exploration is tactics. You don't explore a space, you explore the practical possibilities it's liable to give you..
This. Sekiro is so different in its premise to Souls that trying to compare it DS 2 or 3 or whatever is useless.

I understand what you're trying to convey, but all games with any significant quantity of variegated virtual space/"real estate" (as opposed to merely a flat playing field for a board game, a mostly static UI for a puzzle game, etc.) perforce require someone to design the layout of that space. That's level design, and the basic principles of good level design are universal.

The only real exception to this is when the environment is meant to be realistic terrain of a realistic scale, such as in a flight or trucking simulator.

I enjoy difficult boss fights, but primarily when they're couched in a surrounding framework of meaningful exploration and environmental challenge: Hollow Knight, Super Metroid (a bit on the easy side), Gothic II, DS, DS2, etc.

Anyway, Multidirectional has finally given me what I need. Bonfires everywhere, level design phoned in to what's basically a funnel to the next boss in the boss rush--exactly what I would have expected from From after DS3.
 
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Yeah, well.. it's way better than DS3 and it felt like a needed breath of fresh air after 3 DS games. You're just scared because you know you wouldn't be able to beat the bosses anyway.
 
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Cosmo

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the basic principles of good level design are universal.

No. What you can do (the gameplay) in a given level will shape said level, so with every type of gameplay or videogame subgenre comes a different kind of level design. Therefore a different type of "exploration".
Your expecting of every game to be shaped more or less like a metroidvania is an indictment on your expectations and nothing else.
 
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Silva

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This clip shows how useless it is comparing Sekiro to Souls. Notice the freedom to traverse the map and approach situations differently, the myriad tactical possibilities. It's a different beast from Souls and trying to judge it by the same parameters is moot.

 

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