Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Serious Sam 4

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Belegarsson, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. UserNamer Cipher

    UserNamer
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    686
    I have to say that I got used to the graphics. I don't know if I got used to it or if the later levels just look better. I started liking them more when you get to some Roman ruins before Rome.

    Still I would prefer a degree of stylisation in VG graphics but I would say overall the graphics are now pleasant (not the human NPC's though)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,393
    Location:
    New Vegas
    The graphics look fine, I'm far from a graphics whore. They just don't look anywhere near good enough to justify the performance level. But what else is new from small teams, really.

    I think a big reason so many outlets are shitting on the graphics is because the "big thing" nowadays is realistic lighting and shadow and this game has zero of that, especially in the cutscenes. Everyone looks flat as hell.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    ^ Top  
  3. UserNamer Cipher

    UserNamer
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    686
    I Do believe serious Sam is the thinking man shooter and I'm serious. Also in 4 you have many moments that feels like a straight up puzzles, like, how am I going to handle this apparently unwinnable situations? In the end you need to put up a strategy in most cases: who do I kill first, where do I move, which weapons should I use. For example I did a sequence in a vast open area and you get surrounded by a gigantic amount of kamikazes and also snipers in all directions. It is cool to figure out a strategy to handle this sort of stuff even when it seems it is unwinnable at first. There is just no way you can backpedal to victory for every battle. But it is good to have a mix of hard encounters and straight up massacres. It requires planning and a bit of quick aiming as certain enemies have to be killed as soon as they pop up to have a chance. It is different from eternal because there you can always escape, in here you can fuck up and be surrounded with no escape. But eternal works for me as well because even if you can always get out of a tight spot, enemies are fast and aggressive and hit hard so you have to constantly move as well
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    • hopw roewur ne hopw roewur ne x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. Konjad High on potatoes Patron

    Konjad
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Messages:
    15,139
    Location:
    Namoluk
    The mission with riding a motorbike was terrible. I drove around trying to sightsee and drove the opposite of the quest marker. I found a "side quest" which was just picking up some items and killing a few enemies. Then I kept driving on the main road for a long while. There was literally NOTHING but trees and grass everywhere. After being about 20km from the objective all I saw was:
    ^ this was the most interesting part of the map not related to "quests".

    But the worst is that when I decided to drive to the main quest and reached near bridge I stopped (when Sam says he needs to walk now). Instead, I just drove along the river for 40 seconds or so and saw it just ends there, so I drove around. The whole map must have been auto-generated and they just put something here and there: "OK, player needs to stop here and cross bridge, let's make 50m long river with a bridge and obscure the view so he doesn't see how short the river is".

    Then driving tractor... which kept randomly exploding on some parts of the map due to collision issues, so in the end I took the motorbike I drove around the river lol.


    This game is really rushed and unfinished. SHooting mechanics are fine and enjoyable, but there isn't even a single game mode besides campaign. Had a side quest that was broken as well, and did not finish. Huge areas are completely empty and devoid of any points of interest - the small arenas are more interesting.

    Overall, SS3 was MUCH better and I still recommend it strongly. SS4... is just okay. It's a great disappointment though and I must say buying it for the full price is not worth it. It feels like an alpha version with working main quest than anything else. I expected more SS3, instead got some alpha game version.

    Wait for -50% sale/10
     
    • Despair Despair x 4
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. UserNamer Cipher

    UserNamer
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    686
    Your criticism is valid even if I'm enjoying the game and an upvote for liking bfe. Probably bfe was better designed overall even if in some aspects ss4 is better. It was more tight.

    Never bought too much into critics of bfe. Hitscanners were either weak or had long wind up time so you could destroy them before they had a chance to shoot. The witch was way less annoying there as you had plenty of time to destroy her before the telekinetic attack

    Executions were better in bfe. I don't know why they went from ripping monsters with your bare hands to boring stabbings. also they were useful in conserving ammunitions against certain enemy types like the baby scorpions and were a cool last resort against kleeers that required a bit of timing.

    I still like ss4 though
     
    ^ Top  
  6. JDR13 Prophet

    JDR13
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,155
    Location:
    The Swamp
    Disappointing to hear these things, but even an "ok" Serious Sam game is probably still better than most shooters being released nowadays. I'm gonna keep an eye on this and grab it when it hits the $20-$30 range.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • cuck cuck x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. Blutwurstritter Learned

    Blutwurstritter
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2019
    Messages:
    666
    Location:
    Germany
    Has someone tried multiplayer ? I mostly played SS1 and SS:SE in lan with 5-8 people, which was great.
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Tehdagah Arcane

    Tehdagah
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    6,261
    This is like every Serious Sam game, the arenas are the fun parts
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Bad Sector Arbiter Patron

    Bad Sector
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    612
    Well, they do break the flow for me, i never found their behavior fun. IIRC (it has been a while since i played it) you can one shot them with the double shotgun, but only at very close range - which is basically suicide since they are melee enemies that jump at you if you are close so there is a very good reason to keep them at distance. They're basically the designers trolling the players - which i guess is a defining characteristic of most of the Serious Sam games (see also: picking up 9 out of 10 items will spawn way more enemies -often surrounding you- than the resources that item would give you warrants, essentially disincentivizing picking up stuff and by extension exploring the maps for items in a game where exploration is already not necessary -- fortunately they toned that down in SS3).

    Maybe, i do not remember it much since it has been almost 15 years since i played the game. I do not remember it being as easy as you describe it though, but then again it might be i wasn't a good player at the time - however i had played TSE before it and i do not remember it being any different in terms of difficulty.

    They're as dissimilar as Doom is to Duke Nukem 3D - sure, they're not exactly the same, but compared to other types of FPS games they're very similar.

    Eh, i think you are overselling Serious Sam here. What you describe is exactly what happens in several other Sam-clones, like Painkiller, Necrovision and a bunch of other similar games.

    The final levels sure, but these levels were evolutions of their Quake clone. In the alpha version the maps weren't even that big overall, there were like 3-4 (large) rooms per map. I've played custom maps on Quake that feel closer to final Serious Sam than the levels in the alpha version do.

    No, the rendering limitation was about the method they used for visibility determination. Earlier versions of Unreal Engine 3 had the same issue and that was released on Xbox 360 which when was released was quite a beast of a machine.

    Because they were all programmers who could barely do any art and while SS1's environments were large, they were made up of a very low amount of polygons. Again, check the alpha version of Serious Sam, Quake 1 in software rendering had better looking assets than what Serious Sam 1 had.

    By the time they made Serious Sam 2 they actually had a budget to hire artists and those artists created much more detailed assets than they ever had in SS1.

    Come on, they're just big empty rooms connected with a series of corridors that you move on from after you kill everything. Unless you pick up a bullshit spawn item, there isn't any reason to go back to them. Aside from loading times it would barely make a difference if each room was its own map.

    This is a mistake some developers did at the time, not something to extend to everyone ever made a game for a console.

    Perhaps in the original version that many people also played with the keyboard alone, but the ports -at least Quakespasm- have this disabled. TBH i haven't played the game with the original version in many years.

    I'm not sure what you refer to, i'm 100% certain that FPS games do have aim assist when being played with controllers. I've played a bunch of FPS/FPRPG games recently with a controller and from what i remember they all had some form of aim assist (on PC, but i doubt they'd keep it on PC and remove it on consoles).

    Aim assist is all about helping you aim with the controller's indirect camera movement (ie. you controlling the camera rotation speed instead of the camera direction), it doesn't make the game easier because that lack of precision makes the game harder so the aim assist pushes that "hardness" back.

    But regardless, those are just vague "ifs" and "maybes", discussions like that do not make much sense.

    Largely depends on the game, i think most games are designed to be played on consoles instead of for consoles - ie. the games have to be playable on them but they're not the only platform that matters.

    FOV is the only thing that would be affected and that is from sitting further from the screen, however FOV is the easiest to fix (assuming the developer isn't incompetent) and many FPS games have FOV sliders nowadays (often because they take PCs into consideration too). Playing with a controller certainly doesn't mean that you need narrow FOV nor slow movement, if anything with the controller's analog left stick you have finer control over your movement speed as opposed to the two-step "run/walk" you get with a digital-only input device like the keyboard.

    (FOV can also be affected by the visuals in that lower FOV allows more detailed visuals since there will be less drawn on screen, but as i wrote previous this is something that would affect PCs too)

    Because Gears of War was popular so most developers and publishers tried to copy its popularity by following everything it did - pretty much like developers tried to copy Doom's popularity, Halo's popularity, WoW's popularity, COD's popularity and basically everything popular ever made. As i already wrote, the cover mechanics were already used years before Gears of War on a PS2 game but that PS2 game wasn't as popular as Gears of War so it wasn't copied.

    FWIW Serious Sam 3 also had a very photo-realistic style - AFAIK the environments were even taken out of a cancelled realistic COD clone.

    Personally i'd prefer something between SS1 and SS2 (or even full-on SS2, but that style has its haters).
     
    • I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it x 2
    • FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS x 1
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. JDR13 Prophet

    JDR13
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,155
    Location:
    The Swamp
    No, he's right actually, and the games you mention are not exactly like Serious Sam in the way enemies attack you. In fact, Necrovision isn't much like it at all. Have you actually played it? Also, what is this "bunch" of games that are so similar? Can you name them?

    No one cares how many polygons the games had. The early SS games looked great for their time, and they've aged a lot better than Quake without mods imo.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    ^ Top  
  11. schru Cipher

    schru
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    Messages:
    692
    This is the kind of thing that adds interesting complexity to Serious Sam's combat. You can't just get rid of every enemy that comes at you easily with the same weapon, so in case of the kleers for instance you can counter them with the double-barrelled shot-gun, but you have to time it well and at the same time keep moving to avoid several others jumping at you.

    The ambushes around pick-ups are hilarious, I enjoyed them every time.

    Well, I don't mean this as a counter-argument, but I've played them all close to SS3's release and while I had some trouble in the Encounters, SS2 was smooth sailing except for the Kleer Planet and the final boss. It's not to say SS2 was utterly trivial, I guess I still had to play effectively, but the other games posed some challenge regularly.

    I won't say SS and Painkiller are entirely unlike, but they're further apart than that. In Painkiller, if there are no ranged enemies near, you can take out the shot-gun and not worry about anything—enemy comes near, blast, enemy comes near, blast, enemy comes near, blast, and so on until they stop spawning. Later, when you have the minigun with rocket launcher you can effectively deal with everything and switch to the next best weapon when you run out of ammunition. All that being said, I don't want to say that Painkiller is a bad game; I've replayed it earlier this year and enjoyed it. It has very diverse enemies in its own way, but it's a different kind of shooter.

    I haven't played Necrovision, but it looks like a much slower version of Painkiller when it's limited to smaller battles, so it's nothing like Serious Sam. Serious Sam has werebulls bulldozing through everything, big green enemies casting homing projectiles from hidden spots far away, those brain-mechas marching more slowly behind, raining laser beams and rockets at you, kleers running towards you in sometimes quite sneaky patterns in order to surprise and encircle you, headless kamikaze additionally tensing things up with the impending danger as their screaming gets louder, etc., etc. Painkiller more often restricts certain combinations of enemies to particular map themes which then have two or three basic types of foes, sometimes with more ranged attacks, sometimes fewer, but most of the time it's basically a crowd of the same guys jogging in your general direction. They also have interesting attack patterns to watch out for, but the fun of the game lies mainly in how enjoyable it is to blow them away with the well-designed weapons.

    It's not just the final levels, but more than half of the game (TFE). The relatively enclosed maps also include diversions like large open valleys or big chambers.

    It doesn't matter what different kinds of games Croteam was experimenting with before settling on the concept of Serious Sam, as it is not a Quake clone. The levels as they are in the final game support and complement its distinctive gameplay. My original point as regards the maps was that the SS games which were made for the PC all have very big levels, while the port of the Encounters to Xbox had to subdivide them into many smaller ones. It follows that the reason for SS2's comparatively smaller map size was that it was designed to work on Xbox.

    As for the custom Quake maps, I suppose you might have Arcane Dimensions in mind? Its arena-based design is a poor fit for Quake, the larger fights just turn into tedious, chaotic chase-arounds; again this has little to do with SS because Quake's enemies aren't designed to work in formations.

    I'm not sure if I understand. They didn't run into such rendering limitations on PC in 2001.

    The problem with SS1 is indeed the absence of capable artists who can make a game look good irrespective of its engine and hardware limitations. As you correctly point out, Quake is a much better looking game because it has better art style. I don't think they went to the effort of making an engine that could support, for the time, extraordinarily large maps just because they were poor artists and had nothing better to do with their programming skills (this also runs counter to the idea that the maps were intended for a Quake clone). This design choice was motivated by the kind of game they were making and its absence in SS2 is conspicuous, all the while the latter could easily have had better visuals without discarding big levels.

    A map is more than an accidental amalgamation of individual spaces. It has pacing, a theme, a particular range of encounters that build up in intensity over its course, and some form of culmination at the end; some of the harder maps can feel like a kind of ordeal. Again, it's a distinctive feature of the series and decreasing the level size detracts from it.

    ‘Big ... rooms connected with a series of corridors that you move on from after you kill everything’ describes Painkiller much better. Aside from the optional secret hunting, everything else about its levels is much more decorative.

    Serious Sam 2 is easier though ...

    Yes, I meant the original version. Source ports don't enter into consideration as I was speaking of design trends in the nineties there.

    I meant that as mouse and keyboard became the standard for PC games aim assist was dropped while consoles had to retain it because it's harder to play FPSes on them.

    I didn't formulate it right as indeed aiming with a controller is more difficult, hence the compensation. But this is the point, a PC shooter is harder to play with a controller, hence the player needs to be assisted in some way or the game needs to be made easier. The former option might not always be enough, in which case the whole design is affected.

    Well, it is obvious that SS2 is made with Xbox in mind. I'm just looking over some specific ways in which it affected the game's design.

    It's true that the PC share of the market for mainstream titles is growing again and the dynamics are changing as a result. Nevertheless, the relative predominance of consoles is immediately apparent in things like interfaces and the continued popularity of franchises that were pretty much wedded to Xbox 360 and PS3 and haven't changed much since.

    I was mainly talking about those things relatively to the time of SS2's release, that is, towards the end of the Xbox/PS2 generation. These problems don't affect SS2 itself of course; I just brought them up as indicative of how different the approach to designing and tuning FPSes on consoles is.

    And doesn't Gears of War's popularity have something to do with its suitability for consoles? Naturally, it had to be an all-round appealing game for the trend to take off, but I don't think it's merely a case of other studios blindly copying a popular series. The cover-based system seems to have spread on consoles as a standard way of doing combat beyond any attempt to appeal to GoW fans.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
    ^ Top  
  12. Unreal Savant

    Unreal
    Joined:
    May 6, 2016
    Messages:
    478
    Hey buddy, didn't you know Quake itself was just pieced together from random maps for some RPG they never made? Therefore Serious Sam is an RPG, and so are Painkiller and Doomy Turdhole.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    ^ Top  
  13. udm Arcane Patron

    udm
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,790
    [​IMG]

    :what:

    Only 13.4% have tried dual-wielding the DBS. That shit was the most fun I've had in an FPS in ages.
     
    • rolleyes rolleyes x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    ^ Top  
  14. Bad Sector Arbiter Patron

    Bad Sector
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    612
    I didn't write that the games are exactly like Serious Sam but what he described with "Failing to prioritize targets doesn't merely result in the annoyance of having some ranged enemy take occasional shots at you, but again, can determine early on if the battle is going to be manageable at all" is exactly what happens in the games i mentioned (ie. if you do not prioritize targets, it can end up with the battle not even being manageable). Keep the quote i made there in mind because it provides context.

    Yes, i can't say i had much fun with it. I liked some of the environments but the whiny protagonist and the environments having smoke and fog all the time in my face, especially in the deep underground areas made me lose interest.

    From the top of my head, all the Serious Sam FPS games, Painkiller series, Necrovision series, Dreamkiller, Will Rock, KISS: Psycho Circus: The Nightmare Child, Hard Reset, Shadow Warrior 2013, Doom 2016 and basically any of the "enter an area and have a ton of enemies spawn all around, often without you being able to move forward -or backward- until all the enemies are killed" games that follow this core idea (i am certain i forget some). AFAIK Serious Sam popularized this, though i think KISS was the first *released* game to have this sort of gameplay (though IMO its level design was much better than most of the games i mention here).

    Sure (though i disagree about the Quake comparison, but that is subjective), but you took that part out of the discussion context which was that SS1 had very few polygons which made it easier to have large maps in memory despite the weaker hardware whereas SS2 had much more detailed assets that made it harder to have maps as large in memory and also that the rendering technique that SS2 used to be able to render those assets wouldn't work well with large maps either - which was the case with both PC and console hardware at the time,

    I wasn't comparing how the games looked but explaining why SS2's map sizes weren't constrained by consoles but by them deciding to use a much more elaborate art style than the one they used in SS1.

    Sure, but i personally found that more annoying than fun and i liked how SS2 behaved much more. This is a matter of personal preference, after all you wrote that "The ambushes around pick-ups are hilarious, I enjoyed them every time" which personally outside of a few cases (e.g. the 1hp pick up that runs laughing from you) i never found hilarious.

    I never wrote that they are the same either, but they are much more like than other FPS and to me they (together with the games i mentioned to JDR13 above) belong to the same "school" of arena-based FPS design. They are closer to each other than they are to something like -say- Half-Life, or Call of Duty or even to the original Doom, Blood and Duke Nukem 3D (which, btw, is why i wasn't a fan of Doom 2016's level design as it reminded me more of Serious Sam and Painkiller than the classic Doom games).

    It still has the same core idea i mentioned previously, sure the details are different (and IMO Necrovision is much worse than Painkiller) but at their core they are very close games. Remember that the comparison isn't between just Necrovision and Serious Sam, but between all these FPS games - like if you created a map of all of these games, they'd be closer to each other than they'd be with games like CoD or Half-Life.

    With the "final levels" i mean the levels that ended up in the final game, not the last levels of the game.

    My point was that the maps that ended up in the final game (ie the final maps) were based on the maps that Croteam was making for their Quake clone and weren't made from scratch for Serious Sam's design - ie. they didn't put as much thought as you seem to be thinking in these maps.

    I mean, consider that every Serious Sam game has people saying that they (Croteam) are missing the point of SS1 (note that the maps in TSE were also based on the maps in the alpha version of the game) and yet the people who make up Croteam are basically the same as they were back then. It isn't that far fetched that they were basically throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks without really knowing why it sticks.

    No, nothing follows that, SS2 smaller map sizes can -and probably did- come from a variety of other reasons that would be true for PC too, like the rendering method they used and the more elaborate art style. Those wouldn't be magically fixed on PCs.

    No, actually i haven't played much of Arcane Dimensions. I do not remember the name of the map because it was from midlate 2000s (i thought it was The Marcher Fortress but from a quick video on youtube i just watched it doesn't seem like it, but it was something of that scale in terms of architecture anyway - this seemed to be common at the time in the Quake community).

    Yes, because they used a different rendering method and didn't had the detail in the environments and assets that SS2 had. If they used the exact rendering method and models as in SS1, they wouldn't have that issue (Xbox support or not) but then people (especially reviewers) would say that it looked dated.

    No they didn't made an engine that would support large maps because they were poor artists, however their assets were of low fidelity enough that their engine could use them in large maps.

    If it was that easy, they would have it, after all they did boast about their large number of enemies on screen at the time.

    However based on my own experience i doubt it'd be as easy as you think it is.

    It describes all of these games.

    Of course they enter into consideration since i brought up Quake a few posts before as an example of a game i played with a controller and the original version didn't have support for controllers at all, it was added -IIRC- on Quakespasm which also has auto aiming disabled.

    Ah i see.

    But there is no such thing as a "PC shooter" especially when we're discussing about difficulty since there isn't really a "standard of difficulty" that you can compare games to - individual games, even those released only on PC, vary a lot in terms of difficulty when compared to each other and certainly more than any adjustments that would need to be made to make them playable with a controller (if they weren't already).

    (and ignoring the whole part where you could always play shooters and other games on PC with a gamepad ever since Wolfenstein 3D had support for Gravis' gamepad)

    No, it isn't that obvious, i think you have that as a biased opinion where you see anything you dislike in SS2 as a sign that the reason was Xbox and not some design decision that Croteam would have made regardless. I've already explained in pretty much everything you brought up other reason why they'd be there that would have nothing to do with Xbox.

    Right, because these games still need to be played with a controller (on PC too) so it makes sense to have interfaces and control schemes that are usable with a controller, but as i wrote previously, a game made to playable on a console is not the same as a game made for a console.

    If you want an example of the latter see no further than something like the first Dark Souls where it was explicitly designed for a console. This is a game that is made for a console, not any game that happens to also run (and hence be playable) on a console.

    The thing is, they aren't really that different - as i already wrote, you are overestimating the effect. In fact i'm sure that if someone adds in proper gamepad support on the original SS1 games now that the source code has been released (AFAIK the game already has support for gamepads but it seems to not work properly with xbox360/one gamepads) you'd figure out that they are perfectly playable (even if harder) with it.

    No? I do not know why Gears of War became popular since i never played it, but i'm 100% sure that it wasn't just its cover system.

    In the case of the cover system it was indeed a case of other studios copying a popular series - it isn't without its merits, but it isn't something that is necessary for shooters either as it can often be as much of a hindrance (especially when the game decides to enter in cover automatically) as it is a help. There is nothing about a controller that requires the use of a cover system, especially on a third person perspective game where you can always see your character, since you can simply move your character in and out of cover manually.

    Way to misread what i wrote.

    EDIT: also while Quake did indeed start as an RPG with online persistent worlds, none of the environments that were made for it ended up in the final game (however the textures and some of the models did, though modified) as they were largely test maps for the engine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
    • cool story bro cool story bro x 1
    • I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it I found this text to be too long and as such I didn't read it x 1
    • WTF am I reading WTF am I reading x 1
    • retadred retadred x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. Anthedon Arcane Patron

    Anthedon
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Messages:
    2,871
    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Y'all writing goddamn essays about Serious Sam 4, of all games.
     
    • Prestigious x 6
    • Funny x 2
    • Agree x 1
    • /facepalm/ x 1
    • :M x 1
    ^ Top  
  16. schru Cipher

    schru
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    Messages:
    692
    This is serious.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • nice nice x 3
    • Prestigious Prestigious x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. Unreal Savant

    Unreal
    Joined:
    May 6, 2016
    Messages:
    478
    Quake wasn't even an actual game until later in development, but they had already been creating environments for it long before that. On the other hand, the project that eventually became Serious Sam looked like this:
    [​IMG]

    Look at how large and Egyptian that is. It's almost like an entirely different game...! Not that any of us could know, of course. Were you there with the developers when they were working on it? The game had already become Serious Sam several years before release, so apparently you seem to think they were entirely inept and just sat around doing absolutely nothing, so much so that they never bothered to create new levels and instead just slapped a bunch of Egyptian textures on some Quake maps. Did you actually play that leaked alpha yourself, even? If you did, you would have seen a game that was obviously already Serious Sam and not a horror-themed Doom-clone (most of its maps are different from both TFE and TSE, too, so you're saying that all the maps in the final game were adapted from the old project while also being added later. because that makes total sense).

    Don't talk about things you know nothing about.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
    • Whatever shit you posted didn't load Whatever shit you posted didn't load x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. Ol' Willy Arcane Zionist Agent

    Ol' Willy
    Joined:
    May 3, 2020
    Messages:
    1,991
    Location:
    In your head
    Double-wielding DBS? Weak! Quad-wielding QBS is the way to go!

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny x 5
    • Prestigious x 3
    • incline x 2
    • nice x 1
    • Salute x 1
    • Peaceful protest x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. JDR13 Prophet

    JDR13
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,155
    Location:
    The Swamp
    Almost none of those are considered SS clones. Out of all those games, only Painkiller and Hard Reset are very similar in the gunplay and amount of enemies. Simply having some enemies spawn around you does not make a game a SS clone.

    Sure bro. You clearly were comparing how the games look, but don't let that stop you from telling a cool story. ;)
     
    ^ Top  
  20. JDR13 Prophet

    JDR13
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,155
    Location:
    The Swamp
    Sam says it's all fun and games until somebody writes an essay.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    ^ Top  
  21. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    20,846
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    MOAR SHOTGUNZ!

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny x 6
    • incline x 2
    • hopw roewur ne x 1
    • Yes x 1
    • Salute x 1
    • Sweat gathers upon my brow, let me dab it x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. udm Arcane Patron

    udm
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,790
    Eh laugh at my enthusiasm for the game's dual-wielding functionality :oops:, but it fits perfectly into the run-and-gun loop of the game since you're firing each gun autonomously (LMB for left gun, RMB for right), meaning it doubles the gun's rate of fire with controlled shots, not just for damage.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. Bad Sector Arbiter Patron

    Bad Sector
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    612
    Sorry but i think you have completely misunderstood everything i wrote because i really do not see how your response has anything to do with what i wrote. I never claimed that the developers "sat around doing absolutely nothing" nor that they "never bothered to create new levels". What i wrote was that the levels they have in the final Serious Sam game were based on the levels they were making for a game of a different style which was more of a Quake clone than the game that Serious Sam ended up being, which can also be seen in the alpha version that while it has levels that look very similar to those in the final version of the game, they play differently. I never even mentioned anything about a "horror-themed Doom-clone".

    Game development doesn't work in lockstep, they obviously didn't just started with the Quake styled game shown in the screenshot you posted and continued with that for some time until at some point they flipped a switch, threw everything away and made Serious Sam as it was released - the game had a gradual change of style and gameplay until it reached to what it was released and, again, this can be seen by playing the alpha version which is somewhere between a Quake (or actually Doom, considering the more outdoor areas) clone and the final Serious Sam.

    I use the term "SS clone" similar to how one would use "Doom clone" at the past, since they are much closer to Serious Sam than any other FPS game - again, try to compare them with something like CoD or Half-Life. Do you disagree that these games play much more similar to each other than CoD or Half-Life?

    I wasn't though, from my first post on the topic i was always referring to the rendering and technical side and how the low number of polygons that Serious Sam had allowed it to create larger maps compared to SS2. I wasn't comparing these games, the only comparison i did was with Quake which i personally found better looking (which is something that, as i wrote in the part you quoted, is subjective so it doesn't really matter). However this part is unimportant to the point i'm making and i'm not sure why you keep going on about it.
     
    • STOP! posting STOP! posting x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. Ol' Willy Arcane Zionist Agent

    Ol' Willy
    Joined:
    May 3, 2020
    Messages:
    1,991
    Location:
    In your head
    Nah, it's cool, man. Trailblazer employs the similar control scheme with LMB for the right hand and RMB for the right hand, with revolvers, UZIs and sawn-offs. Good stuff.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. JDR13 Prophet

    JDR13
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,155
    Location:
    The Swamp
    People used the term "Doom clone" to describe first-person shooters in general. I guess that's an apt comparison since you're using "SS clone" almost as broadly.


    [​IMG]
     
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.