Settings and their lack of differentiation

[Karwelas]

Not so long ago I saw some people talking about how RPGs stuck in one setting variation - Fantasy. Seriosuly, I don't remember when I saw anything else then that. (Exluding SF, we had some of those back in time - like Shadowrun. But those are Cyberpunk, so I don't know if this connect itself to SF, but fuck it)

Do you have any interesting ideas for settings/have any games with unusual gameworlds or anything like that?

By the way, Wild West turn based RPG. WHEN.

 

[Gord]

There's also post-apoc (Fallout, Wasteland) and historic-inspired games like Expeditions:Conquistador, I guess.

I'd really like a Wild West rpg, as well.
Additional settings that are (almost) never used but would be cool: Steampunk or non-fantasy historic setting (e.g. Victorian, medieval, antiquity).
Wouldn't mind a real-world-inspired contemporary RPG either, similar to Alpha Protocol - only with more RPG and less shitty combat. Could be set around espionage, e.g. corporate or during the cold war. Hm, a cold war espionage rpg could really be cool, if done well.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Here we go again.

Aliens/Cyberpunk/Time travel/Sex slavery

 

[Infinitron]

Since you mention the term "differentiation", let's talk about the advantage of fantasy - it supports a wide differentiation of character types.

A lot of the "wouldn't it be cool if we had an RPG in..." suggestions begin to seem like experimental gimmicks when you actually think about them for more than a minute, because they're systemically limited from the outset. What sort of characters could you build in a Wild West RPG? Would it really be more interesting than a game like Fallout: New Vegas that lets you LARP a cowboy and do other stuff as well?

If it's really setting diversity you care about, other game genres might be more effective. The best game genre for setting diversity was the adventure genre during its golden age, but alas those days are gone.

What I think could replace the adventure games of yore in this function is the ill-defined genre of "thinking man's action-adventure". Games like Little Big Adventure or Beyond Good & Evil that aren't RPGs but still have an RPG-like gameplay loop - explore towns, talk to people, do quests, fight enemies, get loot. If I wanted to make a Wild West game for RPG fans, I would consider doing something like that instead of trying to shoehorn in stats and classes and other "RPG stuff".

 

[PeachPlumage]

Gord has covered most of what I would want in terms of settings. RPG set within a Covert Action type of setting, working for the CIA and such.

 

[Jimmious]

BTW Wild-West TB RPG = Hard West. With demons too.

 

[likaq]

like Shadowrun. But those are Cyberpunk

except shadowrun is not a cyberpunk setting. It is cyberpunk-fantasy hybrid.

RPGs stuck in one setting variation - Fantasy

blame casuals and combatfaqs.

 

[Karwelas]

Since you mention the term "differentiation", let's talk about the advantage of fantasy - it supports a wide differentiation of character types.

A lot of the "wouldn't it be cool if we had an RPG in..." suggestions begin to seem like experimental gimmicks when you actually think about them for more than a minute, because they're systemically limited from the outset. What sort of characters could you build in a Wild West RPG? Would it really be more interesting than a game like Fallout: New Vegas that lets you LARP a cowboy and do other stuff as well?
.

I don't mean only cowboy RPG, Infi. Yep, Fallout: NV is great game, but I mean something pure like Wild West. And about characters - well, fucking everyone. I would really like to see even some damn genre mix about it - be a sheriff or an outlaw, start your own city, become merchant or military officer. Start your own state, fight with indians or join them on their way to freedom.

I would even be happy to see something like King of Dragon Pass + turn based combat battles about your city in Wild West, really.

 

[Gord]

A lot of the "wouldn't it be cool if we had an RPG in..." suggestions begin to seem like experimental gimmicks when you actually think about them for more than a minute, because they're systemically limited from the outset. What sort of characters could you build in a Wild West RPG? Would it really be more interesting than a game like Fallout: New Vegas that lets you LARP a cowboy and do other stuff as well?

Depends. Obviously magic would be out, but other than mage/cleric classes with fancy spells, there really are no more limitations than in, well, Fallout:
Fighters -> long range (rifle) vs short range (pistol), brawler/melee, bows & tomahawks. Expample: A Pistolero or Native American Warrior
Rogues -> utility-skills to pick locks, defuse (or set) traps, or stealth-skills for sneaky infiltrators. Example: Outlaw or Pinkerton Agent
Healer/Smart Guy -> Science skills (could be used for crafting, repair or dialog options), healing skills to patch your guys up. Example: Medical Doctor or Engineer
Talker -> various social skills. Example: Snake Oil Vendor or Preacher

So the issue is not about coming up with interesting or working character concepts. What is important is how the setting is presented and whether the game manages to integrate it in a meaningful way. E.g. Most Fallout character builds could be directly translated to a Western or Contemporary setting, but Fallout did a good job at rooting the game in the post-apoc setting by providing a fitting story and respective challenges.

 

[Infinitron]

What is important is how the setting is presented and whether the game manages to integrate it in a meaningful way.

Sure, but this isn't a trivial problem.

The systems of traditional RPGs are built around the everything-goes playground of the dungeon crawl. Take non-combat skills such as "lockpick" or "set traps". The fact that picking locks and setting traps can be assumed to be regular activities in the context of a dungeon crawl is what allows them to make sense as skills. These things work (somewhat) in Fallout because it transposes the classic fantasy dungeon to the post-apocalyptic setting in the form of mutant-infested old world ruins.

What's the equivalent of that in the Old West? How many mines are you really going to explore? Do the bandits in John Wayne and Clint Eastwood movies typically have sprawling hideouts full of locked chests and tripwires?

 

[Snorkack]

I'd really like to see something set in late 19th century in the milieu of dandyesque british gentleman clubs with a bit of mystery/magic. Imagine a crossover of Penny Dreadful and Around The World In 80 Days.
Man, the RPG for that setting writes itself! Why hasn't that been done yet (Or has it?)

 

[Carrion]

A lot of the "wouldn't it be cool if we had an RPG in..." suggestions begin to seem like experimental gimmicks when you actually think about them for more than a minute, because they're systemically limited from the outset. What sort of characters could you build in a Wild West RPG? Would it really be more interesting than a game like Fallout: New Vegas that lets you LARP a cowboy and do other stuff as well?

I think one issue that plagues non-fantasy RPGs is that they're still stuck in the mindset of having the same old character classes (there's almost always a "fighter", a "mage" and a "thief" class regardless of the setting). I don't think an RPG necessarily needs to have any of those things. A Wild West RPG would be limited in terms of different classes compared to a fantasy RPG or even something like Fallout, sure, but it might still support a wide variety of different roles and playstyles, perhaps putting more focus on moral choices, faction mechanics, social skills, stealth and so on rather than just different ways to kill stuff. Age of Decadence, while of course not Wild West, arguably already does something that could be almost directly transferred to a Wild West RPG, having characters with different backgrounds start the game from different points and use different strengths to navigate the game world, leading to a ridiculous amount of different routes you can take, even though it, too, looks rather limited from the outset (basically no magic, harsh single-character combat that should generally be avoided, mainly primitive close-combat weapons, character backgrounds that at first glance aren't that different from each other etc.).

 

[Shin]

I'd still like to see some kind of prehistoric setting for a RPG. Not necessarily dinosaurs but more of a late pleistocene, neanderthal, sabretooth tiger filled world with roving tribes and shit. Insert ice age whenever necessary.

I'd really like to see something set in late 19th century in the milieu of dandyesque british gentleman clubs with a bit of mystery/magic. Imagine a crossover of Penny Dreadful and Around The World In 80 Days.
Man, the RPG for that setting writes itself! Why hasn't that been done yet (Or has it?)

That's a nice one as well. The only series I can think of that comes close is probably the jRPG series Shadow Hearts - but even that took place in the early 20th century iirc.

 

[mondblut]

Fantasy is infinite versatility. "Science" fiction struggles to emulate the same with gadgets and technobabble.

Non-fantasy is boring grunts pulling triggers on the same bunch of rifles or swinging identical sticks. At the other bunch of boring grunts doing the same. Yawn.

 

[CryptRat]

I really like magic, or whatever it is called in a given context, so I like fantasy settings.
The problem is more about british middle age/forgotten realms or wanabee forgotten realsm, etc... They should be based on unusual historical settings, and unusual mythologies/book settings, but still with fantasy.

 

[a Goat]

I'd still like to see some kind of prehistoric setting for a RPG. Not necessarily dinosaurs but more of a late pleistocene, neanderthal, sabretooth tiger filled world with roving tribes and shit. Insert ice age whenever necessary.

I think whole codex would like a neanderthal RPG. You know, building shelters, fighting sapiens melonheads...

Generally the easiest way to "diversify" setting is to look at medieval-fantasy and move it into different region. So let's say arab-fantasy game(obligatory :terrorist: enemies) or hindu-fantasy. This is easy and effective way, but hardly anybody does it.

At the same time I hope that Kingdom's come will be successful - surge of historical RPG's is much-needed.

For typical codex-approved RPG's you simply have to make people realise that grenades/TNT are great replacement for fireballs

 

[Innsmouth Dweller]

hey now, there's a ton of settings out there (and unusual combinations), middle age fantasy feels a bit overused imho. lately we've been playing in system developed by our GM - it's cyberpunk mixed with greek mythology. very often when new cRPG title comes out i just sigh "oh, dragons and wizards again".

"magic" is present in every setting, either in form of spellcraft or science fiction. i myself prefer when those two clash (thus Arcanum is by far the best cRPG setting i've experienced).
is it possible to have a realistic (no magic/sci-fi) setting in a cRPG? probably. never seen one.

arab-fantasy... hmm. i'd say Dune, but that's arab fantasy sci-fi, isn't it?

 

[Neanderthal]

I think whole codex would like a neanderthal RPG. You know, building shelters, fighting sapiens melonheads...

Too fucking right.

Lets face it most of the Fantasy settings are renaissance fayres, there's none of the details or the culture we see in the actual Middle Ages or any other periods. For instance what do we get when somebody makes a Viking game, horned helmets, half naked fur clad barbarians with armour that is a biker jacket with massive clumsy stitching. Of course the truth is horned helmets never existed among the Vikings, they wore wool mostly, it was very finely stitched by hands more skilled than we have today and in battle would wear a sturdy gambeson rather than useless leather. Have high hopes for Expeditions however, they seem to know their stuff.

It's the detail that's always lacking for me, that's why I thought King of Dragon Pass was fucking stonking, the bronze age Orlanthi were brought to life with such vivid detail, they were different culturally, had a unique slant on the world and lived by their own laws. It was a setting that moved you somewhere else, and didn't just plop you down in the usual unimaginative Forgotten Realms copy, half of the fun was discovering this world. Fuck the Ducks though.

Settings i'd like to see: A Victorian Age detective RPG, where you can play as a dashing Hussar, a Prizefighter, a Second Story man, an inventor (think Tesla or Frankenstein,) a gun packing fire and damnation Preacher or anything else in that vast variety of available archetypes. Have social conventions be a strict observance, class be a real limiting factor, gender roles be very defined and embraced, and the setting reflect the real life problems of the age. Dysentry, cholera, infant mortality of three quarters, gin palaces etc. Also lend itself well to a little Cthulu like weirdness.

Ancient Greek heroic age adventures, RPGs would fit perfectly into this setting, philosophical debates in the forums, tests of strength and athleticism at the games, sea battles, labyrinths, monsters, aged seers, messages from the gods, exploration and diplomacy, combat with spear and sword and shield, the distinctive bronze armour of the period, titanic elemental powers bound to the land, mysterious cults, brilliant thinkers who challenge all society, the architecture that we have all seen and know, and explore the social situations and culture that we know little of. Instead what do we get, Minsc and fucking Boo.

Anything set in the Zoroastrian mythology at the cradle of civilisation, unique art and architectural style, strange cultures, great cities and civilisations, this made Severance better even though it was hardly metioned. Cries out for development really.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah, I think fantasy in general is just too good a crutch for RPG gameplay, it's pretty much an actual leg at this point. What exactly would you do in a Wild West RPG? There's nothing to explore but empty wilderness and a tiny town. Unless your character is a bounty hunter, there'd really be no reason to travel anywhere, and you can't exactly get a whole lot of gameplay out of bounty hunting in a mundane setting. Everyone you hunt is going to be in the open, so every single mission would be Ask about target > Go to target without incident > Fight target. Woo. And since it's not fantasy, the 'fight' would basically be shooting him in the back. What would any of those other classes do? How could you have any sort of unified story around them?

The closest I've seen to something like this are the old Koei Uncharted Waters games; but every protagonist is basically the same: a captain. Sure, they differ slightly in initial skills, but once you have a crew it's all basically the same, nobody is prevented from trading or being a pirate or whatever. And it's kind of a stretch to call these games RPGs to be honest. The mechanics are just too shallow. Similar to Mount and Blade in that regard. Fine games, but the RPG elements are wafer thin, and all characters are basically the same as a result.

The variety within fantasy, however, is indeed pretty under utilized. Plenty of room for more games that take place entirely in smaller settings, like a particular set of ruins or a detailed exotic setting like a swamp/jungle/arctic wasteland instead of the generic versions that all get mashed together into a single game. Room for more bizarre races like freaky insect people, intelligent societies of non-humanoids, or races generally considered to be only monsters. Plenty of room for fantasy gleaned from other cultures instead of always the greek/tolkien shit with orcs and dragons and hydras and minotaurs. Could easily have a game with none of that but instead things like feathered serpents, well mannered water demons, underwater panthers and actual newly invented shit like withered vampiric cyclops elephants or gorillas with scorpion pincers and ostrich legs.

 

[Prime Junta]

I'm glad you asked.

http://brikoleur.com/#doc112

(Or, for the somewhat shorter version, http://brikoleur.com/#doc7 ).

It's cyberpunk/near-future solar-system space opera, with a touch of Stalker and some vodou gods inhabiting an emergent virtual reality (which is not digital virtual reality) called Q-Space. Shadowrun is the most obvious influence but it doesn't have any fucking elves, dwarves, dragons, or magicians throwing fireballs. Other important influences include the Franco-Belgian comic series Arcanes and Arcane Majeur, sci-fi by Alastair Reynolds and Ken MacLeod, and of course the great William Gibson's Sprawl trilogy.

Edit: oh, and space Communists. http://brikoleur.com/#doc202

And a triumphant Caliphate: http://brikoleur.com/#doc175

 

[Gord]

Yeah, I think fantasy in general is just too good a crutch for RPG gameplay, it's pretty much an actual leg at this point. What exactly would you do in a Wild West RPG?

Why, that's for the writers to come up with. But there's enough potential there for full-blown games.
In principle you have the same motivations to go somewhere or do something than in other settings, 'cept maybe the "Save the world" plots - which would be a good thing for once.
Anyway - the characters might be looking for a fabled indian treasure, be tasked with (or have personal reasons for) hunting down a notorious criminal, get involved in troubles between farmers, railroad tycoons or cattle barons. It could involve anything from quest to glory, over personal revenge to political upheaval in the border regions.

What's the equivalent of that in the Old West? How many mines are you really going to explore? Do the bandits in John Wayne and Clint Eastwood movies typically have sprawling hideouts full of locked chests and tripwires?

That's a trope which is overused even in fantasy settings, tbh. But even if you explore only a few towns, farms and bandit hideouts, chances are that there will be a reasonable amount of stuff to do for utility characters. From breaking people out of prison, to breaking into banks and stealing the deed to Widow Parkers patch of land for the evil railroad magnate.
Ultimately it's just up to the imagination of the writers to make it plausible.

 

[Neanderthal]

I think you could make useful skills and gameplay in a Western RPG, just link them to the iconic passtimes of the period:
Doctor, pulling teeth and healing, use on NPCs and party member for cash, favours and info.
Poker playing, gain money, information and such.
Drinking, outdrink an NPC and gain the drop on them as they spill their guts one way or other.
Brawling, beating opponents into submission to earn money as a prizefighter, beat out info or just for fun.
Survival, knowing the signs of where water is, tracking men and beasts for bounties, info, food or skins.
Indian knowledge, contacts among a local tribe and a rough grasp of the language and etiquette.
Horseriding, faster travel, cheaper than a stagecoach and more likely to avoid danger or starvation.
Animal friendship, taught by a Shaman who put you through a smoke ceremony, wolves, cougars and bears ignore you.
Gunslinging, quick on the draw with your sidearm.
Knife throwing, quick on the draw with the knives you have secreted on you.
Rifle skill, good for hunting man or beast, showing off in marksmanship contests and such.
Dynamite skill, you have a working knowledge of how to handle explosives, whether that's cracking bank vaults or lobbing at bandits is up to you.
Silver tongued, budding politician, liar and charmer, whether it's the electorate or a virgin you know how to facilitate fucking them, good for persuasion and defusion of tense situations.
Shit shoveller, you were born and raised among pigs, sheep, horses and cows, you know their price, the signs of good or ill health, how to calm them and how to panic them.
Miner, there's gold in them thar hills, you can tell whether there is or not, whether a claim is bogus or real and what the going rate is per ounce.
Circus runaway, as a lad you joined up with Carnies and travelled the west, you ran away but not before learning tumbling, escapalogy and sleight of hand. *Migth need further splitting up*
Instrument playing, whether in a music hall or sat around the campfire, you can get a decent tune out of a guitar, harnonica or whatever. Useful for earning cash or just fitting in new company.
Runner, you were as a lad a talented foot racer, and still can set a blistering pace, when prompted by profit or safety.

Mix these skills (and probably more you can think of) into the usual setting and you could have almost any situation occur, the countryside of the west would play a huge part in the game and require survival skills or some method of traversal, but the mining and cowtowns, ranches and cities would play an equal part. You could also be anything, an outlaw, a lawman, a cowboy, a bounty hunter, an Indian fighter, a doctor, a prospector, a businessman or whatever.

 

[V_K]

Horror-themed settings are criminally underused. Unless you count zombies and vampires, but I wouldn't because they aren't anywhere near scary anymore. Oh, gimme a spiritual sequel to Legacy, someone, pleeeeeease!

I'd really like to see something set in late 19th century in the milieu of dandyesque british gentleman clubs with a bit of mystery/magic. Imagine a crossover of Penny Dreadful and Around The World In 80 Days.
Man, the RPG for that setting writes itself! Why hasn't that been done yet (Or has it?)

I think Fallen London is kinda like that, but it's pay-to-win, so no one cares.

 

[Damned Registrations]

The problem is that doing any of those things would be pretty fucking dull. Hunt for a fabled indian treasure? How? Digging up random countryside or graveyards? Do I choose whether to spend points on my shoveling skill vs my shooting unarmed men in the face skill? What would hunting down a notorious criminal entail exactly? 6 hours of talking to people and 6 hours of uneventful horseback riding, culminating in a 30 second shootout?

Save-the-world quests are overused because they're one of maybe 2 or 3 viable excuses for a party of murderhobos to leave a wake of corpses knee deep for hours on end. If you're only going to spend 1% of your game in combat, you probably shouldn't even bother having a system for it. Which begs the question, what is 99% of your time going to be spent doing? You might have a profession and maybe 1 or 2 more incidental skills at best. Are you going to wring 20 hours out of pulling teeth, prospecting for gold, and playing the piano? Sounds like some boring shit to me. Is your character going to be some magical jack of all trades that can blow up bank vaults, ride away, sell the gold, buy cattle, drive them across the country, sell them, sneak into a mansion, kill some guards, steal a deed and open a dentistry practice to fulfill his lifelong dream of yanking teeth out on top of dead indians? Maybe we could just skip the bullshit and make it a visual novel titled "Gary Sue, the westernfag game". After all, it's not like you're going to have meaningful systems for any of that shit. Probably a bunch of lame QTE or some dialogue options that make no real difference.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

There already are many Wild West RPG systems, it's just that none of them was ever adapted for a video game.